Radrover Controller & Display Upgrade Kit

[thatdude902]

That's where I got into the bad habit of full throttle all the time.

Anyway, I'm itching to upgrade the motor. It looks to be an easy upgrade, just 6 screws plus transfer over the freewheel. I saw a video on youtube a guy with similar upgrades on a Sondors, with a 35A controller but with a motor upgrade (750w bafang from Luna cycle), that he was able to hit 30mph on throttle and max out at 33mph, & over 20mph up a 6 percent grade hill on throttle only.

There is no way our current motor can come close to that.

Edit: couldn't resist the upgrade urge and ordered this on aliexpress. I measured the dropout width on my Radrover and it's 175mm, though Rad's spec page said 170mm. The nuts, washers, and connectors look the same. Supposed to take 8-16 days to the US, we'll see how that goes.

 

[AHicks]

Seriously considering the 1500w Mac 12t to replace the current 1500w direct drive on my bike ('18 Rad City). I've been riding it with a very similar controller to Bolton's for over a year now (KT systems 12 FET), set to limit max amperage to 11 or 1200w tops. Have never had any sign of trouble from the RAD battery or BMS board so I know that stuff will handle that amount of power reliably (for a few minutes at least!). Concern there was the 14ga wire used internally in that battery, for fear it's generally not considered "nice" to feed that kind of amperage through that size wire.....

Point being, you should have no trouble supplying adequate power to the 750w Bafang.

 

[spmckinnon]

I

That's where I got into the bad habit of full throttle all the time.

Anyway, I'm itching to upgrade the motor. It looks to be an easy upgrade, just 6 screws plus transfer over the freewheel. I saw a video on youtube a guy with similar upgrades on a Sondors, with a 35A controller but with a motor upgrade (750w bafang from Luna cycle), that he was able to hit 30mph on throttle and max out at 33mph, & over 20mph up a 6 percent grade hill on throttle only.

There is no way our current motor can come close to that.

Edit: couldn't resist the upgrade urge and ordered this on aliexpress. I measured the dropout width on my Radrover and it's 175mm, though Rad's spec page said 170mm. The nuts, washers, and connectors look the same. Supposed to take 8-16 days to the US, we'll see how that goes.

Oh, that looks tempting. Report back if she fits!

 

[Feliz]

Got my controller and display replaced today, only issue was the cable running to the display connector was up inside the downtube so that made a little more work. After it was all bundled up the display would not turn on, battery is charged so I'm guessing the 40 amp fuse is gone. QUESTION, how on earth do I get at the fuses to check or change them? Pry the rubber cover off and then what? Thanks.

 

[AHicks]

I would confirm it's the fuse prior to getting too far into it. Just disconnect the battery and put a voltmeter across the 2 bigger terminals. If you have power there, the fuses are good to go and the problem is elsewhere. Most likely a connector that's not fully seated. If you need to, pull ALL the connectors apart one at a time and reseat them, making absolutely sure they are completely inserted.

 

[Feliz]

I would confirm it's the fuse prior to getting too far into it. Just disconnect the battery and put a voltmeter across the 2 bigger terminals. If you have power there, the fuses are good to go and the problem is elsewhere. Most likely a connector that's not fully seated. If you need to, pull ALL the connectors apart one at a time and reseat them, making absolutely sure they are completely inserted.

Okay, will do! Thanks.

 

[Feliz]

I would confirm it's the fuse prior to getting too far into it. Just disconnect the battery and put a voltmeter across the 2 bigger terminals. If you have power there, the fuses are good to go and the problem is elsewhere. Most likely a connector that's not fully seated. If you need to, pull ALL the connectors apart one at a time and reseat them, making absolutely sure they are completely inserted.

Battery and fuses okay, I'll check all connections tomorrow. The display connector ended up inside the down tube on my bike, not underneath like on Bolton's video that makes more difficult with more chance of the connector coming undone.

 

[thatdude902]

The motor I ordered above came yesterday, basically took almost 7 days. Below is a picture of the motors for comparison, original 2016 Rad on the left, the new 750w on the right. Big difference in the magnet size. Installing wasn't too bad, same as shown in Bolton's video for their Sondors upgrade. The security screw is size T20 torx, home depot has them. And I used some blue loctite, like the new motor originally had. The fit is perfect, no issue putting the new motor into the old case. The tough part was taking off the freewheel, I had put in a 11-28 fw in 2017, so it's been in there for a while. And putting the wheel back on to the bike. I have full fenders, so that made it more difficult for me.

As for performance, I was able to get to ~28 mph on throttle only, not quite duplicating that video above, but then my battery is 3 years old and I didn't have a stretch of road long enough to keep at it. And the pull from 0 to 28 was similarly quick like the video above. It was 9 mile test and am happy with the performance upgrade. Despite some short steep hills and lots of stop signs, I average about 16.7 mph and never got out of the 11t cog. Some sections of 25 mph roads I easily cruised at 28 mph with some pedaling. Funny that a car that was going the speed limit actually pull over to let me by. Probably thought it was a motorcycle. Also comical that I was able to take some hills at 22 mph at over 1300w's (I think it used to be about 15-16 mph on the old controller & motor).

I think where the motor make the most difference is on steeper hills and on flats above 22 mph. Where the old motor struggles & I had to pedal to help it get to 25 mph, the new motor can get there without any pedaling. With this motor, you will want a 11t on your freewheel. You will spin out on the old 14-28 freewheel that was on the 2016-2017 rover (not sure when Rad changed to 11t) at over 25 mph.

Oh, I made some 3D printed parts for mounting the controller & the LCD, over at thingiverse.

 

[spmckinnon]

The motor I ordered above came yesterday, basically took almost 7 days. Below is a picture of the motors for comparison, original 2016 Rad on the left, the new 750w on the right. Big difference in the magnet size. Installing wasn't too bad, same as shown in Bolton's video for their Sondors upgrade. The security screw is size T20 torx, home depot has them. And I used some blue loctite, like the new motor originally had. The fit is perfect, no issue putting the new motor into the old case. The tough part was taking off the freewheel, I had put in a 11-28 fw in 2017, so it's been in there for a while. And putting the wheel back on to the bike. I have full fenders, so that made it more difficult for me.

As for performance, I was able to get to ~28 mph on throttle only, not quite duplicating that video above, but then my battery is 3 years old and I didn't have a stretch of road long enough to keep at it. And the pull from 0 to 28 was similarly quick like the video above. It was 9 mile test and am happy with the performance upgrade. Despite some short steep hills and lots of stop signs, I average about 16.7 mph and never got out of the 11t cog. Some sections of 25 mph roads I easily cruised at 28 mph with some peddling. Funny that a car that was going the speed limit actually pull over to let me by. Probably thought it was a motorcycle. Also comical that I was able to take some hills at 22 mph at over 1300w's (I think it used to be about 15-16 mph on the old controller & motor).

I think where the motor make the most difference is on steeper hills and on flats above 22 mph. Where the old motor struggles & I had to peddle to help it get to 25 mph, the new motor can get there without any peddling. With this motor, you will want a 11t on your freewheel. You will spin out on the old 14-28 freewheel that was on the 2016-2017 rover (not sure when Rad changed to 11t) at over 25 mph.

Oh, I made some 3D printed parts for mounting the controller & the LCD, over at thingiverse.

Fantastic info, thanks for following up. Few questions:

1. How did you get the freewheel off?
2. What is a 11-28 fw? Is that the same number of gears as the stock cassette but just different sizes?
3. Did you also buy the Bolton controller upgrade and did the new motor connector fit with the Bolton controller upgrade ok?
4. With a faster bike what's the best way to combat hamster wheeling? With the controller upgrade I can barely peddle fast enough to keep up with the new controller, should I upgrade the front sprocket?

 

[thatdude902]

Yeah, freewheel removal requires a split freewheel removal tool. Because the tool has to get pass the connector, nut & washers. Here's an old thread talking about it. Some people say that you can get one from Rad, not sure. I bought this one, and used a dremel disc to cut it.

I have a 11-28 fw that replaced the stock 14 - 28 fw. Looks like Rad changed it to a 11 - 34 fw for 2019.

It's the Bolton upgrade kit, with the KT-LCD3. And the connector on the motor is exactly the same as the stock motor so connection was simple.

The reason you're spinning like crazy is because with the stock 42 chainring & a 14 t cog, you have to spin at ~100 rpm to get to 26 mph. With a 42 x 11 combo, 28 mph about 84 rpm. So cruising at 28 was very comfortable. Changing the chainring is an option, but I would rather change the freewheel. Or just leave the old freewheel with the old motor, and get a new freewheel for the new motor. Then you don't need to get the fw removal tool. Btw, I use this website to check speed at cadence.

 

[spmckinnon]

Yeah, freewheel removal requires a split freewheel removal tool. Because the tool has to get pass the connector, nut & washers. Here's an old thread talking about it. Some people say that you can get one from Rad, not sure. I bought this one, and used a dremel disc to cut it.

I have a 11-28 fw that replaced the stock 14 - 28 fw. Looks like Rad changed it to a 11 - 34 fw for 2019.

It's the Bolton upgrade kit, with the KT-LCD3. And the connector on the motor is exactly the same as the stock motor so connection was simple.

The reason you're spinning like crazy is because with the stock 42 chainring & a 14 t cog, you have to spin at ~100 rpm to get to 26 mph. With a 42 x 11 combo, 28 mph about 84 rpm. So cruising at 28 was very comfortable. Changing the chainring is an option, but I would rather change the freewheel. Or just leave the old freewheel with the old motor, and get a new freewheel for the new motor. Then you don't need to get the fw removal tool. Btw, I use this website to check speed at cadence.

You are the man! Thanks for breaking it down so clearly with expected cadence and speed. It really helps to make an informed decision.
It sounds like it makes the most sense then to keep 42 tooth crank (and the dual chainring guard) and replace the freewheel with a 11 - 28 fw or something similar and just add it to the new motor. The only issue with the 11 - 28 FW is you loose that high 34 gear which would come in handy on climbs if the motor or battery ever gives out. Do you know if an 11 - 34 fw exists. I really only need two gears, top speed and "s*it I need to climb a hill and the motor is gone".

BTW I have the 2018 Radrover which comes with a 14-34 tooth fw. The 14 just isn't low enough at all. I don't want to use throttle only at top speeds but I can't peddle fast enough to keep up.

 

[spmckinnon]

Do you think this fw would be compatible?

 

[thatdude902]

No, that's for cassettes. You have to watch out for that, look up cassette vs freewheel so you can tell the difference by sight.

This one would work. And if you are willing to go with 11-30, it's a lot cheaper.

 

[spmckinnon]

No, that's for cassettes. You have to watch out for that, look up cassette vs freewheel so you can tell the difference by sight.

This one would work. And if you are willing to go with 11-30, it's a lot cheaper.

Thanks @thatdude902 - i'm having trouble finding some that I can get to Canada in less than a month. Did you ever consider swapping out the crankset? I wonder if that might yield more options? A smaller crank might even still be compatible with the dual chain ring guard!?


edit: I ended up ordering the DNP 7SP 11-30 CP

Thanks again for your help, I learned alot about freewheels today. Hopefully this fw can stand up to the demand of a 750W motor.

 

[J0nG0m]

Thanks @thatdude902 - A smaller crank might even still be compatible with the dual chain ring guard!?

But actually on the crank side you want to go bigger!

 

[spmckinnon]

But actually on the crank side you want to go bigger!

Thanks, I have so much to learn.

 

[xnaron]

@thatdude902 - Have you been on any more rides? Any issues? Could you post a picture of your modified freewheel removal tool?

 

[thatdude902]

Just a short 6 mile trip to for coffee, no issues. Would have like to ride today, but it's raining.

Anyway, here's a older post with the picture of the tool. The freewheel came off relatively easy 2 years ago when the bike was fairly new. But this time with the freewheel being in there for 2 year, I had to jam a couple of screw drivers into the middle to keep the splines engaged because the freewheel was so tight.

 

[xnaron]

Just a short 6 mile trip to for coffee, no issues. Would have like to ride today, but it's raining.

Anyway, here's a older post with the picture of the tool. The freewheel came off relatively easy 2 years ago when the bike was fairly new. But this time with the freewheel being in there for 2 year, I had to jam a couple of screw drivers into the middle to keep the splines engaged because the freewheel was so tight.

Thanks. I was thinking I would cut a slot in it for the cable rather than cut it in half. I will see if I can find the DNP tool online.

 

[xnaron]

Can someone with the Bolton controller measure the length of it for me? The 2019 Radrover has an aluminum nub on the back of the downtube just above the stock controller. It is used for a ziptie mount to clean up the rear breaklight wiring. I want to see if it is going to interfere and be something I have to deal with.

Thanks