Radrover.. Canada 500W Vs USA 750W Geared Motor.

[NemoChitty]

So I notice that RadPower's Canadian Website list the RadRover with a .....
"With 500W and 80 Nm of torque at your disposal, this Bafang geared hub motor "

RadRover™ 6 Plus High-Step Electric Fat Tire Bike

Shop the RadRover 6 Plus electric bike at Rad Power Bikes, the makers of best-in-class electric bikes for all types of different riders and applications.

radpowerbikes.ca

While RadPower's USA Website list the RadRover with a .....
"HUB MOTOR
750W Brushless Bafang Geared Hub Motor with 80Nm of Torque and 5:1 Planetary Gear Reduction. "

RadRover Fat Tire Electric Bikes

Our RadRover fat tire electric bikes are built for off-road riding with pedal assist for all-terrain, outdoor adventures. Add a rack and bags to carry your gear.

www.radpowerbikes.com

I called RadPower Bikes, and Olivia in sales confirmed, that is correct, due to Canada's laws & restrictions for public road use.

I learn something new every day!

tim

 

[mrgold35]

I'm not sure how each version would feel since they both have 80 nm of torque. I usually stay 99% of the time in PAS 3 (375 watts) on paved roads and PAS 2 (175 watts) normally or PAS 3 if sandy for trail riding.

 

[Chopperbill]

Wherever you live the upgraded controller from Bolton is a cheap and worthwhile upgrade.

Not about the OP but what year is that BSA you have there. I bought a new 68 650 lighting and it reminds me of it, same color. Too bad I wrapped it around a tree and it was sent to the junk yard. Sure did like that bike

 

[Handlebars]

So I notice that RadPower's Canadian Website list the RadRover with a .....
"With 500W and 80 Nm of torque at your disposal, this Bafang geared hub motor "

RadRover™ 6 Plus High-Step Electric Fat Tire Bike

Shop the RadRover 6 Plus electric bike at Rad Power Bikes, the makers of best-in-class electric bikes for all types of different riders and applications.

radpowerbikes.ca

View attachment 38220

While RadPower's USA Website list the RadRover with a .....
"HUB MOTOR
750W Brushless Bafang Geared Hub Motor with 80Nm of Torque and 5:1 Planetary Gear Reduction. "

RadRover Fat Tire Electric Bikes

Our RadRover fat tire electric bikes are built for off-road riding with pedal assist for all-terrain, outdoor adventures. Add a rack and bags to carry your gear.

www.radpowerbikes.com

View attachment 38219

I called RadPower Bikes, and Olivia in sales confirmed, that is correct, due to Canada's laws & restrictions for public road use.

I learn something new every day!

tim

The same motor juiced up to 750 by RadPower.

 

[AHicks]

The deal is there are several ways to rate a motor's wattage and not many rules governing which is used where. For instance, it's pretty easy to restrict a 750 watt motor to 500 watts by limiting the power available to it electronically. There's also the potential for a company to say that their testing suggests a 500 watt motor will actually handle 750 watts, leaving the part that says it will only do that for a few minutes located in the fine print.

Then, there's the real way, where testing shows a 750 watt motor can dissipate heat well enough where it will handle a constant diet of 750 watts.

In Rad's case, there are a lot of very happy owners very satisfied with the amount of power available while in stock form. It's only natural though (for many of us) to want more. With RAD, that's easily accomplished with several routes to go. Question is only how much faster you want to go (within reason of course), and how much money is in the budget....

 

[thatdude902]

I think both of them are 500W motors. RPB just distinguish them by how much wattage they feed the motors from the controller. In the controller upgrade thread, there were at least 2 people who opened up the bare motor to upgrade to 750W Bafang motors. One is the American version (mine), and the other is the Canadian version (spmckinnon's). (Hard to tell from the pictures, but the Canadian version might even be 350W motors)

Btw, I have no issues with RPB rating the Radrover as 750w. They said it's 750w and they feed it 750w. The said it can go 20mph and it does.

 

[Rick badgolfer]

Contemplating buying a 750 W Bafang hub motor Fatbike ......recently saw a posted u tube video where a Rad Rover 750 Bafang motor was taken apart, shown to be lighter than another Bafang 750 W, and when tested appeared not to have the power or efficiency the comparative Bafang demonstrated . Am concerned that this may be on the bike I’m considering buying, and/or is this needless worry due to the video? Has anyone any info on this? I hope I’m not breaking the thread of this discussion, but the video raised questions with me. Thanks everyone for understanding.

 

[Rick badgolfer]

No, not considering Rad rover bike, yes you’re correct about video. Bike I’m considering is for a750 Bike for US market by a Canadian supplier.

 

[Rick badgolfer]

Wow, best answer I could ever expect. Thank you for the great info. The bike I’m considering was a fatbike 750 for USA market by DJ ebike in Canada. Have conversed with them by email, but not about this, have been very impressed .

 

[GregGritton]

I can see two variants of fat bikes, 500W and 750W
...

Okay so, what's the difference?

Their range is the same, with exact same battery.
If US version is actually more powerful (different motor, different speed controller settings, power delivery, etc.) the range for US will be worse.
Yet, 750W and 500W's ranges are identical, with identical battery.

Most likely:
- The US legal motor limit is 750W, so the US version is labeled a 750W motor
- The Canadian legal motor limit is 500W, so the Canadian version is labelled a 500W motor

 

[AHicks]

I agree when it comes to virtually the same bike carrying both 500w and 750w ratings, the difference will be in the controller, with the 500w version being limited to 500w electronically.

There's more to the 500 vs. 750 difference I think. If you take a 750w motor and compare it to a 1500w for instance, the only time the 1500w will be using/making more power than the 750w is when there's more power available and it's being used. If you were to limit power to 750w on both of these motors, on paper they would both have the same range. In practice, the 1500 might even do better due to it's larger diameter and wider armature making more available torque, which may make it more efficient....

Another thought is what if you were to feed both of these motor 1500w? Same result. They would both be making/using the same amount of power. The differences here is that the 1500w motor is able to shed heat better than a 750w (that's how it got the higher wattage rating), so it would keep going long after the 750 quit due to being over heated.

Further, what I found, is what happens when these are compared to a gear drive. With the 5:1 gear reduction available in a gear drive, a 500w motor will smoke the DD motors above in acceleration tests from a stop to 10mph for instance, while using less power. That's a game changer, and why I've become a fan.

 

[Rick badgolfer]

You guys are way above my pay grade knowledge wise. Would you recommend the 500 or 750.
I weigh 225 am 73 years old ..6'3. live in a hilly region with some great mountain biking available within minutes. Presently have commuter ebike...do 10 to 15 miles each day on paved city roads. Choices for me are rad rover, voltbike Yukon 750 limited and DJ fat bike. 1500 USD is my max. I appreciate all and any advice. Thanks guys!

 

[AHicks]

Rick, my advice would be when it comes to hills, the bigger the hill, the more gears the better. So for around town and mild off roading/bike trails a gear driven hub should do. If you want to point that bike up a more serious hill (which can be fun on occasion) a mid drive might be the better choice.

The Rad does have an aftermarket kit to increase available performance available (by 10-20% maybe). That may be something to keep in the mental file. I'm not familiar enough with the other bikes to comment much.

I would add that if you don't plan on doing your own service work, doing a little research on what's available for each bike locally may help you make up your mind. -Al

 

[Rick badgolfer]

If I understand you correctly... you're saying because both batteries are the same but the wattage of the US motor is larger, there should not be a performance difference other than the 750 would have reduced range.
Am I correct? If so then I should purchase the 500 rather than 750? Looking forward to hearing your opinion.
Cheers Rick

 

[Rick badgolfer]

One last silly post. Just got back from Europe...did a bike and barge trip from Passau Germany to Budapest and back.,8 days. Rented an ebike from the tour provider. They used a ....I assume...250 mid motor Bosch system with 7 speed throttle turn shifter. 4 assists...eco, tour sport and turbo. Maybe it was because they were whole season weekly rentals, but was disappointed in performance, particularly on hills.
If you are interested in such a tour, read itinerary carefully. We sailed too much and only cycled about 14% of the total time. Saw some beautiful cities, but seemed to be constantly trying to match boats schedule.
Perceived notion of cycling beside Danube, tasting wines, while cycling leisurely through countryside did quite live up to our imaginations. Cheers.

 

[AHicks]

Rick, maybe a different take. The 500w bike has a 500w limit placed on it, done electronically in the controller. Kinda like a how governor works. With the 750, that same electronic limit has been raised to 750 watts.

From what I've been able to gather the 500 and 750 motors are one and the same. The difference is in the amount of power Rad is feeding them with the 500 getting only 2/3 the power as the 750.

So not only are the batteries the same, the motors are as well. The difference being the amount of power that's being allowed through, with the 500 having less available than the 750.

 

[AHicks]

I don't think we know the difference between 500W and 750W of those DJ fat bikes.

Here are the comparison
Battery: same
Motor: ? (probably the same)
Speed Controller: same
Range: same
Everything else: same

The only thing we don't know (at this point) is the motor.
It is likely that motors are identical.

The motor output rating is determined by battery and controller. (because Voltage x Amp = Wattage)

For the extra price, what are you getting? Just a "750W" badge?
Because if that's the case, you're paying more for an identical bike.

If 500W and 750W (both nominal power, not maximum power) are determined by speed controller setting, then DJ is simply charging "premium" for 750W because it doesn't cost them anything extra to change the setting to 750W.

On the highlighted, this is only partially true. The TRUE measure of a motor's wattage includes it's ability to get rid of heat! This is the one that separates the wannabees from the real thing......

For instance, we can feed a 500 watt motor 1500 watts without expecting an explosion, but that doesn't make it a 1500 watt motor. It WILL be expected to overheat in short order.

A real 1500 watt motor can run 1500 watts for an extended period of time, without overheating.

 

[AHicks]

Yes, you're right. They don't explode. They just kinda let the smoke out. When that's gone, they don't work any more. A much slower death than a simple explosion.

Even the MAC motors are all over the place with ratings for the same motor. 1000w here, 12 or 1500w there, no consistency. Makes choosing very difficult as our friend Rick is finding out.

Planetary, not planetarium though I did know what you were talking about!

 

[Marci jo]

One last silly post. Just got back from Europe...did a bike and barge trip from Passau Germany to Budapest and back.,8 days. Rented an ebike from the tour provider. They used a ....I assume...250 mid motor Bosch system with 7 speed throttle turn shifter. 4 assists...eco, tour sport and turbo. Maybe it was because they were whole season weekly rentals, but was disappointed in performance, particularly on hills.
If you are interested in such a tour, read itinerary carefully. We sailed too much and only cycled about 14% of the total time. Saw some beautiful cities, but seemed to be constantly trying to match boats schedule.
Perceived notion of cycling beside Danube, tasting wines, while cycling leisurely through countryside did quite live up to our imaginations. Cheers.

Just read your post about cycling in Europe. I’m doing similar one July 2020 but it’s one way and we end in Budapest. I love cycling in Europe and have done a few tours.
Sorry to others that my comments are not related to original theme.

 

[Browneye]

Wherever you live the upgraded controller from Bolton is a cheap and worthwhile upgrade.

Based on what exactly?
Their site shows the same basic controllers that come with other ebikes - do they do something special?

Also, any idea why there are so many 'sold out' items? They can't get parts? Or things are discontinued?

I tried to post a question but the widget failed.

Not impressed.