Problems with the wallke april batch: no regen, 22mph top speed, 0mph coasting.

[johnwebike]

I got my tracking number Thursday, being shipped by DHL Air from Hong Kong. Shipping details weren't updated until today, my ETA for delivery here in Atlanta GA is Friday 7/2.

Good timing on the updates too, because my PAS stopped working today. Was working fine on my last ride a couple days ago (minus the other problems we've been having), but today when I turned it on for a ride the motor would only kick in under throttle, no assist. I know you have the same thing going on Curcutie so I expect the new motor in the mail will address this along with the wonky speedos. At least I hope so.

Another week of patience and we'll find out...

Did you get your wheel and motor yet? Very curious if it works in solving the speedo issue, and if it is near 28mph actual speed?
I got a message today, a bit strange, hoping its just a language thing. Heres part of the message:
"Update:
The motor is ready to ship. But the rim will come without the valve hole. The valve hole version is unavailable for the time being. Can you accept it?"
I wrote back to clarify the "valve hole" issue. LOL. Im hoping they meant rim hole punches fir weight, and not really valve hole.... that would be a bit of a stretch to drill myself.... curious how yours arrives?

 

[johnwebike]

Are they expecting you to drill a valve hole by yourself?

 

[johnwebike]

Well, I am hoping the rep made a language error and meant to say the "extra' holes in the rim. Mine has holes punched out between the spokes, in addition to the valve hole's' there is one each side of the rim, I assume to keep it balanced? They sent a photo of a rim with no holes. Really hope the dont want me to manufacture the rim...lol That would move to the top of the list on absurdity. Time will tell!

 

[Curcutie]

Well, I am hoping the rep made a language error and meant to say the "extra' holes in the rim. Mine has holes punched out between the spokes, in addition to the valve hole's' there is one each side of the rim, I assume to keep it balanced? They sent a photo of a rim with no holes. Really hope the dont want me to manufacture the rim...lol That would move to the top of the list on absurdity. Time will tell!

same here but I just okayed it. Yea I think it’s just a language error. It should just be the bigger holes that are not there. I mean I hope. Lol

 

[AHicks]

A little late to this race, but I think I can provide some answers for anyone interested. First, it's impossible for a Bafang geared hub to provide regen. The reason it can't/won't provide regen is due to the design of the motor - and it just so happens it's the SAME reason your speedometer/odometer quits when you're coasting. The geared hub motor designs have an internal clutch that allows the motor to literally stop when you don't supply it with power. In practical usage, this is actually a huge bonus as unlike a direct drive, there is no drag while coasting with a geared hub. The drag while coasting on a direct drive hub bike is generally seen as a BIG downside in that design.

About regen, most that have actually ridden bike with regen (other than the GMAC) and used regen, will all tell you that the amount of power put back into a battery using it is something so small you can't measure it. Why have regen? It's about helping to control your speed while going down really big hills at speeds over 15mph. Think engine braking in a car or truck going down a big hill. It's a very similar feel when using either. Anyone that tells you anything differently is either lying or they don't know what they are talking about.

OK, Bafang geared hub vs. direct drive performance. In traffic, where you are stopping and starting frequently, and around hills as long as they are reasonable size, the geared hub motors are MUCH sportier. They are MUCH better than direct drives in about any scenario under maybe 15mph. They're faster when accelerating, better at climbing hills, and they're more efficient. This is all true even when comparing a 500w geared hub to a 1500w direct drive motor.

Downside of geared hubs when compared to direct drive. First is heat build up. The geared hub motor are buried deep inside the case with no direct exposure to cooling air. The direct drive is ALL motor, with nearly the entire motor able to shed heat. This makes them able to shed heat better, allowing them t be used at higher speeds - where thy ARE more efficient than a geared hub at say, speeds over 20mph. This ability to shed heat is a reason guys building bikes with absolutely silly power (like 72 volts for instance) prefer them. That kind of power applied to a geared hub will smoke even the biggest and best designs in short order.

If on the fence regarding direct drive vs. geared hub, ask yourself one question. Why is it that even though direct drive motors are less expensive to build, why is it the VAST majority of inexpensive bikes all use geared hubs? To be perfectly blunt, it's because most experienced riders will consider the direct drive bikes as absolute dogs from a performance perspective. It takes 60-72 volts and a light rider to wake them up. Then there's the motor induced drag issue when coasting...

Why doesn't the speedo work full time? My best guess is that's a mismatch motor/controller issue. The controllers are a newer style looking for a full time signal from the motor, that the motor, due to them being an older design, can't provide. Huh?? The older Bafang motors used to use an external speed sensor. They're very simple, and cost maybe 15.00. They amount to a magnet mounted to a spoke, and a sensor mounted where the magnet going by it can be picked up and provided to the controller. The new motors have a relocated speed sensor, that operates/provides a signal if the motor is turning or not. It's that simple. Those that are handy COULD fix these speedo's (turning them into full time) with the addition of a 15 dollar external speed and some creative wiring...... -Al

 

[AHicks]

same here but I just okayed it. Yea I think it’s just a language error. It should just be the bigger holes that are not there. I mean I hope. Lol

They may be talking about a hole sized for a Presta valve (small) vs. a more conventional schraeder (sp?) valve, which are a hair bigger. No big deal if you have a drill.

 

[bejumi]

Just got the next reply in the series from Wallke:

"Thank you for your update. Regarding the speedometer issue, I will apply a new motor for you. The speedometer issue will be solved after replacing the new motor.
Can you accept it?"

We'll see what they end up sending and if it fixes the issue. Sounds like they are attempting to solve the issue one customer at a time without too much hassle, which I appreciate even if it should never have happened in the first place. Hopefully our complaints will get them to swap the configuration for future builds and save others the headache.

 

[johnwebike]

Just got the next reply in the series from Wallke:

"Thank you for your update. Regarding the speedometer issue, I will apply a new motor for you. The speedometer issue will be solved after replacing the new motor.
Can you accept it?"

We'll see what they end up sending and if it fixes the issue. Sounds like they are attempting to solve the issue one customer at a time without too much hassle, which I appreciate even if it should never have happened in the first place. Hopefully our complaints will get them to swap the configuration for future builds and save others the headache.

Thats just what I was thinking too. Hoping actually. When reading others posts about the speedo, and posts that Al made in here regarding why the speedo drops out when no power is going to the gear drive hub, I believe he has a point. I'll be surprised if the new motor fixes the speedo at all.
If not, I'll probably order a Bafang G060.750 or G062.1000 kit, and install it with a 35 amp controller, wheel sensor for the speedo to get things working, and have the top speed and torque I expected from this bike. The motor Wallke uses, looks like a 500 watt motor inside. It will draw over 750, but it's anemic as someone else put it. Check out the youtube by citizencycle where he upgraded a 500w RadPower bike to 750w Bafang.

RadPower is also labeling a 500w as 750w. You can see the 2 motors are quite different inside. Keep fingers crossed I suppose. Let us know how you make out. I'll do the same!

 

[Dkyork]

Thats just what I was thinking too. Hoping actually. When reading others posts about the speedo, and posts that Al made in here regarding why the speedo drops out when no power is going to the gear drive hub, I believe he has a point. I'll be surprised if the new motor fixes the speedo at all.
If not, I'll probably order a Bafang G060.750 or G062.1000 kit, and install it with a 35 amp controller, wheel sensor for the speedo to get things working, and have the top speed and torque I expected from this bike. The motor Wallke uses, looks like a 500 watt motor inside. It will draw over 750, but it's anemic as someone else put it. Check out the youtube by citizencycle where he upgraded a 500w RadPower bike to 750w Bafang.

RadPower is also labeling a 500w as 750w. You can see the 2 motors are quite different inside. Keep fingers crossed I suppose. Let us know how you make out. I'll do the same!

 

[Dkyork]

Here's pics of the new wheels. Has the valve stem hole, but missing holes around the wheel itself.

Mine is being shipped today hopefully.

Dale

 

[AHicks]

Here's pics of the new wheels. Has the valve stem hole, but missing holes around the wheel itself.

Mine is being shipped today hopefully.

Dale

On the bold, that left me scratching my head. I was thinking clearly that's a fully assembled wheel/motor! The holes you are referring to (I think?) are the ones some wheel mfg's use to lighten the rim? I wouldn't consider that to be too big a deal. More for show than anything. The weight of that removed alum. is pretty insignificant and not noticeable for most of us.

It IS possible a new gear drive hub could also fix the speedo issue. It'll depend if it's a newer generation motor or the original - before the change in speed sensor location (part time), or after (full time). Fingers crossed for you guys.

I THINK you guys might find the 500w motors can have pretty sporty performance. Where they may get into trouble is when faced with a long hill. That may cause them to get too hot.

Noteworthy maybe. I just replaced my favorite "go to" bike, which was equipped with a 1000w+ MAC 12t geared hub motor (torque monster), with a new bike that's 15 lbs lighter, and equipped with a 500w geared hub motor. Why? The 500 does anything I ask it to! This bike is used nearly exclusively in an area with little in the way of hills that will seriously challenge the 500w motor - especially when I poke it for a few seconds, with up to 1000w using an aftermarket controller.... My advice would be to start there (aftermarket controller) if looking for more power. -Al

 

[Dkyork]

On the bold, that left me scratching my head. I was thinking clearly that's a fully assembled wheel/motor! The holes you are referring to (I think?) are the ones some wheel mfg's use to lighten the rim? I wouldn't consider that to be too big a deal. More for show than anything. The weight of that removed alum. is pretty insignificant and not noticeable for most of us.

It IS possible a new gear drive hub could also fix the speedo issue. It'll depend if it's a newer generation motor or the original - before the change in speed sensor location (part time), or after (full time). Fingers crossed for you guys.

I THINK you guys might find the 500w motors can have pretty sporty performance. Where they may get into trouble is when faced with a long hill. That may cause them to get too hot.

Noteworthy maybe. I just replaced my favorite "go to" bike, which was equipped with a 1000w+ MAC 12t geared hub motor (torque monster), with a new bike that's 15 lbs lighter, and equipped with a 500w geared hub motor. Why? The 500 does anything I ask it to! This bike is used nearly exclusively in an area with little in the way of hills that will seriously challenge the 500w motor - especially when I poke it for a few seconds, with up to 1000w using an aftermarket controller.... My advice would be to start there (aftermarket controller) if looking for more power. -Al

Yes, there are just holes around the wheel to lighten it and not a biggie for me, but I may just move the motor to my old wheel anyway, so it matches the front. They are guaranteeing me the new motor will go 28mph and fix the speedo going to 0 mph issue.

I'll report back when I get it and I also have a 2nd bike coming next week. Hoping the faster motor is in it already.

Take care,

Dale

 

[AHicks]

Sorry, hadn't considered matching the front wheel. Shame on me!

Betting you can just swap the motor guts, much as the Bolton mods are done.

 

[Dkyork]

Sorry, hadn't considered matching the front wheel. Shame on me!

Betting you can just swap the motor guts, much as the Bolton mods are done.

I just watched a motor gut swap on a YouTube video. Looked very easy, but voids the warranty.

 

[AHicks]

I just watched a motor gut swap on a YouTube video. Looked very easy, but voids the warranty.

If concerned about warranty, install the new motor and try it out. If it's OK after a few miles, then swap the guts so your wheels match? Or wait until you get a flat and you're going to have it apart anyway.

 

[Slick Silver]

UPDATES

So my motor arrived about a week ago, but it arrived cosmetically damaged. I don't blame Wallke fully; the packaging could have been better but it looked like they honestly tried; there were foam reinforcement panels where they were needed, but DHL (the shipper) seemed to really mishandle the package and they didn't hold up. As it was, the tip of the axel where the motor cable exits punctured the box, allowing it to be scraped up. Did not damage the cable itself though, which was lucky, and the scraped up bit was easily covered by one of the rubber nut covers that came with the original motor.

My rim had holes and was identical to the original. My motor also came with a new controller box.

I just finished getting it all swapped out today. It wasn't a very difficult process, but it wasn't a cakewalk either. Swapping the controller was easy, but removing the rear wheel to do the motor swap took more elbow grease than I'd imagined. Actually had to have a mate help me pry it out, it was really jammed in there. Once the wheel was removed, moving the tube and tire onto the new rim/motor was pretty straightforward. Not counting the time the wheel was stuck, entire process probably took about 90 minutes from start to finish, breaks included.

I've only had one short test ride so far, b/c its rainy where I live today, but I definitely noticed some differences:

The bike feels zippier, like it has more torque. Also pedal assist seems to kick in earlier. Even with slow start set to 0, before the bike needed about 2 full revolutions to start giving power; now it only seems to take 1 revolution. All in all it definitely feels faster off the line with both throttle & pedalling.

The speedometer indeed appears fixed, and reads even while coasting. Haven't tested accuracy against GPS yet but it feels more or less accurate.

I have regeneration when exceeding 12mph in PAS setting 1. This was a feature I specifically requested for mine; and it works as advertised and shown by other users, I get a little red bar and a red negative number reading the number of watts going back into the battery. I'm pleased. It does seem to come with a drawback, however. The new motor is smooth while in use but is definitely creating a bit of drag with the bike turned off, I get some rolling resistance when spinning the wheel. At first I thought I had installed the wheel incorrectly and that something external was rubbing... but I can see nothing to explain, & tracing the sound, it seems to be coming from the hub, as though the gears of the motor are engaged even when its off. I don't think its a dealbreaker, but is something I will be mindful as I get more rides in and evaluate the new set-up on the bike.

As a note, none of my advanced settings were changed during the controller & motor swap. My test run was still with a 24" wheel setting, slow start set at 0

Original motor:
Banx200904978S148
WALLKE48V750W26CBBBB1

New motor:
x15-26"48V750W(C)
21060004
ZNZK

 

[johnwebike]

Thank you very much for the update. I did not request the regen, after reading Al's comments here, so it will be interesting to see what I receive. Glad yours is working out so far. Thanks for the pics too!

 

[JDsplice]

UPDATES

So my motor arrived about a week ago, but it arrived cosmetically damaged. I don't blame Wallke fully; the packaging could have been better but it looked like they honestly tried; there were foam reinforcement panels where they were needed, but DHL (the shipper) seemed to really mishandle the package and they didn't hold up. As it was, the tip of the axel where the motor cable exits punctured the box, allowing it to be scraped up. Did not damage the cable itself though, which was lucky, and the scraped up bit was easily covered by one of the rubber nut covers that came with the original motor.

My rim had holes and was identical to the original. My motor also came with a new controller box.

I just finished getting it all swapped out today. It wasn't a very difficult process, but it wasn't a cakewalk either. Swapping the controller was easy, but removing the rear wheel to do the motor swap took more elbow grease than I'd imagined. Actually had to have a mate help me pry it out, it was really jammed in there. Once the wheel was removed, moving the tube and tire onto the new rim/motor was pretty straightforward. Not counting the time the wheel was stuck, entire process probably took about 90 minutes from start to finish, breaks included.

I've only had one short test ride so far, b/c its rainy where I live today, but I definitely noticed some differences:

The bike feels zippier, like it has more torque. Also pedal assist seems to kick in earlier. Even with slow start set to 0, before the bike needed about 2 full revolutions to start giving power; now it only seems to take 1 revolution. All in all it definitely feels faster off the line with both throttle & pedalling.

The speedometer indeed appears fixed, and reads even while coasting. Haven't tested accuracy against GPS yet but it feels more or less accurate.

I have regeneration when exceeding 12mph in PAS setting 1. This was a feature I specifically requested for mine; and it works as advertised and shown by other users, I get a little red bar and a red negative number reading the number of watts going back into the battery. I'm pleased. It does seem to come with a drawback, however. The new motor is smooth while in use but is definitely creating a bit of drag with the bike turned off, I get some rolling resistance when spinning the wheel. At first I thought I had installed the wheel incorrectly and that something external was rubbing... but I can see nothing to explain, & tracing the sound, it seems to be coming from the hub, as though the gears of the motor are engaged even when its off. I don't think its a dealbreaker, but is something I will be mindful as I get more rides in and evaluate the new set-up on the bike.

As a note, none of my advanced settings were changed during the controller & motor swap. My test run was still with a 24" wheel setting, slow start set at 0

Original motor:
Banx200904978S148
WALLKE48V750W26CBBBB1

New motor:
x15-26"48V750W(C)
21060004
ZNZK

Could you please post a top speed test with some kind of GPS to compare along with your Advanced settings. I am currently going back and forth with WALLKE about my bike only having a top speed of 22-23mph. A 750w motor should perform way better than that. I don't have the coasting issues, but I would really like to see if you have more than what we are getting.

 

[Curcutie]

UPDATES

Yea I suspect that the motor and controller you received were the same ones on user JDspice’s bike.

 

[JDsplice]

Yea I suspect that the motor and controller you received were the same ones on user JDspice’s bike.

It is not. I have the same motor as the one he just replaced.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/715984025948520534/860497387100045332/20210606_182831.jpg