Please help me make final decision between Biktrix Ultra Eagle and HPC Scout

[Gasher]

I've narrowed by decision down to these two bikes. Would be grateful if anyone would tell me what you'd choose if you were in my shoes and why. Here's my scenario:

• I didn't list cost (please assume total cost is not a factor in your analysis. However my budget is 6k and both of these bikes are under that, so it wouldn't help to recommend a 10k bike)
• 3 most important factors are top speed, build quality, and good customer support/warranty
• 5"10', 145 lb female - and a decade-long 250cc dirt bike rider, so no worries that I'm overdoing it for my first e-bike
• Bike will be used exclusively on private land on GNCC type trails

My dilemma is this: seems I'll get the most power/speed from the HPC but I can't find much of any reviews about the quality of their builds or after sale support. They don't seem to have a yelp page and their BBB page has one negative review and nothing else. However their google maps reviews look great. On the other hand, Biktrix looks to have a much bigger community and positive reviews about their quality, support and warranty, but the motor is smaller and the top speed is less.

Biktrix Juggernaut Ultra Eagle

• Power: 1000w
• Battery: 52V / 17.5Ah
• Top advertised speed: 32 mph
• Warranty: 1 year on electronics
• https://www.biktrix.com/pages/ultra-eagle-details

HPC Scout

• Power: 2000w
• Battery: 48V / 17.5 AH
• Top advertised speed: 40mph
• Warranty: 3 years on electronics
• https://hpcbikes.com/collections/electric-bikes/products/scout

I guess what I'm really asking is this: is it worth it to go with a more unknown company (HPC) for a 2000w motor and 8 more mph? Really appreciate any advice that will help me decide

 

[Citycrosser]

Have you emailed HPC? I've inquired about the Scout as well and they are very responsive. Email them with your planned usage and see what they recommend.

I don't think you could go wrong with either bike though!

 

[scout592]

I was not familiar with HPC so looked at the Scout on their websites. Sure seems like they want to charge extra for items that Biktrix and others include.

 

[onlineaddy]

@Jeffr get a chargeback from your credit card company and get your lawyer involved if you get any crap from HPC.

 

[Iridebikez]

I don't know if you're still considering these two, but allow me to share my experience with HPC. These are identical products - HPC makes the frames for Biktrix, who assembles them in Canada. I thought I'd be patriotic and buy Made is USA.
I placed an order for HPC Scout 1500W the first week of June. I am still waiting. I call and It's always 2 more weeks. I tried to cancel my order but they referred me to the bottom of Page three of the Terms and Conditions that states "all sales final no refunds for any reason" (including, apparently, non-delivery). Honestly who reads page three of the T&Cs? and how can you refuse to refund a product that was never shipped? Apparently they can and do, and they Have lawyers standing by to sue you if you try to cancel.
Bitkrix, on the other hand, underpromises and overdelivers. They claim 2 weeks to ship, user reviews say they get their bikes in 7-10 days, and customer support is fantastic. Shipping is free from Biktrix, and extra $200 from HPC; they don't tell you that when you order, they call you and tell you the shipping quote on the website is wrong and you need to send and extra $200, and then they don't have any brakes, you have to pay more for those too. You have to pay $500 more for factory default 1500 watt motor; HPC imposes a software restriction on the stock motor and limits it to 750W and charges you $500 to remove their own the software restriction; It's like ransomware. All in I am over $6000 and three months later still don't have a bike. Decide for yourself. I don't know if the bike is any good, and Im not sure I'll ever find out. Most unethical business I have ever dealt with, I am ashamed they are American.

I went looking at the HPC website. When you put the bike in your cart and check out it only gives the option of local delivery. But on their home page there are reviews from all over the country. Clearly something isn't right. Scams always wind me up. This is also why I'm so wary of crowdfunding campaigns.

I can't give you legal advice, but generally a seller cannot contract out of failing to deliver the product. By that, I mean that they still have to uphold their end of the bargain in order to complete the contract. If I pay money to a seller in return for a bike but the seller never sends the bike, then they have failed to uphold their end of the bargain and the other terms of the contract are usually void. In addition, an ebike without brakes isn't an ebike (or a bike at all, unless it's a fixie track bike). Admittedly, HPC has a lot of ways to spend more money on the bike, but brakes isn't one of them. If you paid with a credit card you may try contacting that company and alerting them and seeing if they will refund you the money or try to get the money back from the company on your behalf. This doesn't always work, but credit card companies are sometimes as interested in going after scammers as consumers.

Here is the official FTC information about online fraud for consumers, with free resources and ways to report fraud: https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0020-shopping-online. One of the things you can do, covered on the FTC website, is report them to the BBB and leave a nasty review/complaint on that website. That might get HPC's attention enough to at least reach out to you and come to a resolution (particularly since it appears someone else has previously taken them to task on the BBB website for this very issue). In addition, you should try a free inquiry on a legal help website, like americanbar.org, lawhelp.org, avvo.com, or justicia.com. Scams always involve a lot of extra effort that you shouldn't have to endure, but these websites offer free (limited) legal advice so that you will at least better understand your rights and options in this situation. Of course, you can also find and hire a lawyer to represent you through these websites if you choose. (Edited when I saw HPC's BBB page and to correct my crappy spelling.)

 

[TForan]

40mph on a bicycle is not recommended and is downright dangerous. High 20s is plenty, IMO.

 

[Jeffr]

Well whether or not because of this thread, today I received a shipping notice from UPS; nothing from HPC, but I have to assume a shipment from bikeflights is for a bike. I will follow up with a review once I've ridden it a while. Nevertheless less, I was promised a delivery of 3-4 weeks and actual was 11 weeks, and after all the extras and hidden fees it cost $1500 more than the identical bike from Biktrix. (actually the Biktirx has a 52 volt battery, which would be better), not to mention the weeks of runaround and lies. The complaint with the BBB is almost exactly the same as my experience. BTW, I agree that 40 MPH is insane, but that is only available from the 3000W Scout Pro (more misleading advertising). The 1500 watt Scout I purchased has a max speed of 32, a speed I commonly reach on my road bike without any electric assist.

 

[Iridebikez]

That's a good update to hear. Bikeflights definitely means you'll get a bike since that's all they do. That also likely means HPC at least did some sort of QC and/or assembly of the bike between getting it from China and sending it on to you, so that's positive. But don't count your chickens just yet. Once you get your bike and ensure it is actually what you ordered, I wouldn't hesitate to still leave a complaint on the BBB website so that others are aware that this is a recurring issue, not a one-time error from three years ago. Alternately, you could contact HPC, let them know how you feel and that you'll complain to the BBB, and ask for either a partial refund or store credit for additional options or accessories.

 

[Gasher]

Jeffr, wow thanks for that information and I'm sorry you had to go through that. I actually did go with Biktrix and after reading your review after the fact, I'm glad I did. I got my bike in 10 days and it's been wonderful.

 

[Jeffr]

The good:
Bike is beautiful. Orange powder coat is even nicer than pictures. Frame is amazingly well made, and like art to behold
The entire bike is well built - nothing loose, everything adjusted perfectly. Gears shift like butter. Rides straight ahead hands off.
Upgraded Magura MG5 dual piston brakes/203 mm rotors stop RIGHT NOW. Most Amazing brakes I have ever used (had to pay more for those though)
The bad:
I bought an upgraded 4A charger for $100. It was not included; instead the cheapest, lightest, 1.5 amp charger I have ever seen (and I have had 5 bikes). Good news it is is light, which means you can carry it in your pocket, because:
Range is AWFUL. I purchased the 17.5 AH battery (+$500) for range; today on the maiden voyage I rode mostly eco 4 I depleted the entire battery in 16 miles and had to call my wife to come get me. I hope this improves as the battery runs through a few cycles, but even if it doubles, this is a huge disappointment.
Speed/Power is SLIGHTLY more than the Specialized turbo Vado/Turbo Levo that it replaced. I expected 1500 watts would be like three times more powerful than the 530 watt Brose motor in the Specialized Levo; it is more like 1.3 times more powerful. On the hill to my house, 600 feet at 14% grade, the Levo climbed at 6.5 mph - the Scout climbs at 7.8 MPH, with Max pedal assist. Cannot climb it at all on throttle only. VERY DISAPPOINTED in the pathetic lack of power, barely more than a Specialized Turbo Levo, without the lower weight, better balance and refined handling of the latter. The is like a Harley, the Levo like a Ducati.
Quick release lever for front wheel ALSO not included. Even though it is on the checklist. Ok so I can buy a charger and a thru axle on eBay for another $100, I have already paid $5800 for this bike and I am really annoyed that I have to buy these AGAIN. AS expected, absolutely no response from Derrick or Chris at HPC to emails or phone calls. They are great before the sale; after they have your money, not so much.
I have to say this is the most disappointing purchase of my life - and at 62 years of age, I have made a lot of disappointing purchases. This is by far the worst.

 

[Iridebikez]

Sorry to hear about those issues. I'm not well-versed in the electric side of things, but I'm sure there's a way to measure the watt/power output of the bike to check and see if you got what you paid for. Do you have a facebook account? HPC seem to be fairly active there and might be more likely to respond if you post on their page or tag them in a post explaining what a bad experience you've had.

 

[Gasher]

I'm sorry you had to go through this awful experience Jeff. I wish we had more certainty that we will get what we pay for. I'll be sure never to buy anything from HPC.

 

[TomD]

Something does not add up. I have test ridden the Turbo Levo and own a Frey CC with Bafang Ultra and 48V 17.5ah battery (similar spec to your HPC Scout but has FS and is probably ~10 pounds heavier). Yes, the Ultra is a dog from an efficiency standpoint but you should be getting more speed and power up hills. I can easily throttle 10-15 mph up hills in lower gear. I suspect there is something wrong with your battery. I also own a 250W euro spec eMTB with similar power as the Turbo Levo and there is no comparison to the Ultra going up hills. I get a workout on the 250W eMTB going up the 700' hill to my house. On the Ultra the workout is optional (assuming I have enough battery).

 

[Jeffr]

TomD, you were correct, it did not add up. Last weekend it continued to lose power and then failed completely and would not turn on;ni pushed it home. HPC was completely unresponsive, other than asking me to take a picture of the bike (what would that tell them?). There is NO support after the sale. Finally, realizing I had a worthless $6000 bike with no customer support, I took matters into my own hands and removed the motor, fully expecting to find a failed controller. To my surprise, the XT60 Power connectors had come apart; the power cord to the battery was too short and the tension pulled the XT60 apart. It was connected by proximity alone without a firm electrical contact. I reconnected, secured the two halves with a zip tie so that it wouldn't come apart again, and reinstalled the motor (a job not for the feint of heart). It is a completely different bike, and I hope I can bring myself to like it if I can get past the bitter experience of the last three weeks, knowing that there will never be any support; they won't even send me the power supply I purchased for $100. Absolutely the worst company I have ever dealt with.

 

[TomD]

Sorry to hear about your experiences with HPC but glad to hear you have gotten it working for the most part!

 

[Hi-Power Cycles]

Hello Jeffr,
Sorry for your awful experience with us, that really does sound bad. We don't mean to leave any customers behind. Although the past year has been really trying to say the least. Our OE SRAM orders were historically always 30 days lead time to build at the factory for parts such as derailleurs, shifters, forks, shocks, etc. Now we are pushing 12-18 months! It literally is all insane, and tough to deliver bikes right now.

Can you forward your name on the invoice to [email protected]? I will take care of you. My name is Chris, I am the owner here. Thanks. Or call me at 323 325 3390. That is the number I am personally responsible for. We will try to sort you out and do what we can to keep you happy.