Pinion Motor.Gearbox.Unit (MGU)

[Mr. Coffee]

I think some of the interesting questions about how you build belt drive bicycles need some answers and good answers will make for better bikes:

• How do you maintain proper belt tension? If you remove and replace the rear wheel, do you have to readjust to get proper belt tension?
• How do you release tension on the belt before removing or installing the rear wheel? Note that if you do any of that with the belt under tension you will probably need a new belt in the very near future.
• Where and how do you separate the chainstay to install the belt? Note that this is the most likely place the frame will fail, especially on aluminum or carbon frames.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

More on the Riese & Muller bikes https://ebiketips.road.cc/content/n...025-bikes-with-pinion-s-mgu-drive-system-5459

The bottom bracket configuration on those bikes looks just plain weird.

 

[Bill G]

The bottom bracket configuration on those bikes looks just plain weird.

I have an R&M Nevo 3. I have not found a need to retension the belt after replacing the rear wheel. That said, I do periodically check belt tension and adjust if needed. R&M has posted a video on the rear wheel removal:

 

[mschwett]

The bottom bracket configuration on those bikes looks just plain weird.

weird is one way to put it, horrendously ugly is another!! wtf

 

[scrambler]

I have to admit it is not the best look...

 

[Rás Cnoic]

I missed in all the DJI excitement & news coverage from Eurobike that renowned French e bike manufacturer Moustache unveiled a new Pinion MGU equipped EMTB called Project BOX 46 - a prototype due for release next year.

This will be the first non-Bosch motor Moustache have ever used apparently - They're always been big on Bosch and only Bosch.

So both Moustache and R&M trying out the MGU. Be great if Moustache equip one of their lovely urban and/or trekking bikes with the Pinion as well. Christ I'm going to need to rob a bank though with all these expensive boutique European brands!

 

[Rás Cnoic]

weird is one way to put it, horrendously ugly is another!! wtf

Just saw this top down shot which explains it I think - the rear shock housing sits on top of the motor! It's mostly enclosed so from the side looks like the motor is massive and weirdly triangular. I must admit I've never got R&M in hiouse bulky designs/styling. They seem to want to deliberately make their bikes look heavy!

 

[scrambler]

they should at least have painted the cover white ...

 

[Kilowatt]

On both the Nicolai and Moustache mtb's with the mgu, the thing that concerns me is the "badonk-a-donk" in the frame just forward of the chainring. I can see those protuberances getting absolutely smashed on logs/rocks. I feel like there needs to be way better bash protection for that area.

 

[Dewey]

The bottom bracket configuration on those bikes looks just plain weird.

The ebiketips article mentions R&M have designed this to make replacing the motor possible. Of interest it is reported that "other systems could potentially be retrofitted to the bike". Assuming the reporter got this tidbit from R&M I wonder hypothetically what might be involved in swapping out the Pinion MGU for a Bosch Smart System for example? I'm not au fait with the Pinion rear sprocket mount, does the rear frame have horizontal drop outs for fitting an IGH or a mount for a derailleur hanger? A well meaning attempt to future proof the expensive frame?

 

[dblhelix]

The ebiketips article mentions R&M have designed this to make replacing the motor possible. Of interest it is reported that "other systems could potentially be retrofitted to the bike". Assuming the reporter got this tidbit from R&M I wonder hypothetically what might be involved in swapping out the Pinion MGU for a Bosch Smart System for example? I'm not au fait with the Pinion rear sprocket mount, does the rear frame have horizontal drop outs for fitting an IGH or a mount for a derailleur hanger? A well meaning attempt to future proof the expensive frame?

I have a hard time imagining the retrofit is with the end user in mind, at least not as a feature option.

My guess: Pinion is practically giving these away. Just like the gearbox for the Lectric One.
If all goes well, Pinion acquires quick market share. If not, R&M bails.

 

[Rás Cnoic]

The ebiketips article mentions R&M have designed this to make replacing the motor possible. Of interest it is reported that "other systems could potentially be retrofitted to the bike". Assuming the reporter got this tidbit from R&M I wonder hypothetically what might be involved in swapping out the Pinion MGU for a Bosch Smart System for example? I'm not au fait with the Pinion rear sprocket mount, does the rear frame have horizontal drop outs for fitting an IGH or a mount for a derailleur hanger? A well meaning attempt to future proof the expensive frame?

Yeah hard to get your head around that idea. So many changes needed including even the mounting bolt positions from MGU to Bosch system - those aren't likely to be in same place? I mean I can see the economy's of scale of having one frame design to fit multiple systems but... Dunno. We'll wait and see I suppose.

 

[dynamic]

I finally got to experience a pinion smartshift (not MGU). My advice is to run screaming from smartshift bikes like c1.12i. Honestly, I am just about completely converted to chain ( @Stefan Mikes are pigs flying?). This stuff isn’t ready for prime time. It’s not clear to me if/how the MGU version can address the issues of the smartshift version. I don’t post here much anymore because my best bike is the sirrus X 4.0. Non-electric regular chain bike. It is the only bike I am currently riding.

As excited as I am about these concepts, and how they may push the industry forward, I wouldn’t want the current implementation experience for myself. Hopefully MGU is better than c1.12i, but based on what I know, I am not optimistic. I certainly wouldn’t buy a pinion MGU without plenty of pre-purchase ride time. This stuff isn’t beta, it’s alpha. At best.

SRAM Transmission is next. Not sure if it will be electric or not. Anyway, back to my cave.

 

[scrambler]

I finally got to experience a pinion smartshift (not MGU). My advice is to run screaming from smartshift bikes like c1.12i. Honestly, I am just about completely converted to chain ( @Stefan Mikes are pigs flying?). This stuff isn’t ready for prime time. It’s not clear to me if/how the MGU version can address the issues of the smartshift version. I don’t post here much anymore because my best bike is the sirrus X 4.0. Non-electric regular chain bike. It is the only bike I am currently riding.

As excited as I am about these concepts, and how they may push the industry forward, I wouldn’t want the current implementation experience for myself. Hopefully MGU is better than c1.12i, but based on what I know, I am not optimistic. I certainly wouldn’t buy a pinion MGU without plenty of pre-purchase ride time. This stuff isn’t beta, it’s alpha. At best.

SRAM Transmission is next. Not sure if it will be electric or not. Anyway, back to my cave.

May be you should qualify your experience so it would help understanding it.

 

[dynamic]

May be you should qualify your experience so it would help understanding it.

No thanks. For a few reasons. 1) I don’t think this is the thread for it. It’s about the MGU. 2) It’s not an electric powered bike at all, so maybe not on this forum? 3) This forum is pretty toxic. 4) Those things make it not worth the effort to me.

If someone wants to start a thread about that gearbox and moderate it to keep the toxic people out, I would happily provide my experiences if mentioned in that thread. The bike industry is fairly broken. And bike snobs don’t like when you call that out by exposing the flaws of their beloved brands and products. Talking about negative experiences here makes you a target for those people. And I simply don’t have time or patience for that anymore.

 

[scrambler]

No thanks. For a few reasons. 1) I don’t think this is the thread for it. It’s about the MGU. 2) It’s not an electric powered bike at all, so maybe not on this forum? 3) This forum is pretty toxic. 4) Those things make it not worth the effort to me.

If someone wants to start a thread about that gearbox and moderate it to keep the toxic people out, I would happily provide my experiences if mentioned in that thread. The bike industry is fairly broken. And bike snobs don’t like when you call that out by exposing the flaws of their beloved brands and products. Talking about negative experiences here makes you a target for those people. And I simply don’t have time or patience for that anymore.

Then may be the best would have been not to bring it up

 

[Rás Cnoic]

Note. This is not about e bike gearboxes/motors - but I thought it was an interesting gearbox development.

Last year '24, Gates put up a £100K prize for the first gearbox/gates belt equipped bike to win an Elite level World Cup Downhill round. Currently there are several teams aiming for this in '25 and it looks pretty interesting. Given so much of bike design has started in the MTB world including suspension, 29ers, mullet, 1x, if gearboxes become the norm in Downhill, the ebike versions will probably expand as well. Like ebikes, where weight is not a big factor, the same is true of downhill, where weights are sometimes added to keep the bike low to ground and faster. As well as the fragility of low hanging rear mechs in the crazy fast downhill speeds, constantly being an issue. Having a 'clean' rear triangle makes sense.

Here's a vid of the Atherton's gearbox bike development (using Pinion & gates). The Athertons based in deepest mountainous Wales, Gee, Dan and Rachel Atherton, siblings and multiple World Cup winners, started creating their own downhill mtbs back in 2019. Interesting seeing the tech used in construction.

 

[Dewey]

Interested to read Pedego franchises may soon be able to sell the n+ F1 Rallye with Pinion c1.9 Good to see support coming from an established bike service network.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Anyone has bought a Pinion.MGU e-bike yet?

 

[Tom@WashDC]

I found his owner's review on Reddit

CinemaPlugins
•6mo ago•Edited 6mo ago

I own one. Bulls vuca sfx 1. pinion 1:12. had it since last Friday. Was a pita at first. Front sprocket was not connected tightly causing all sorts of issues. That Needs a special pinion tool just to tighten it. That Cost me 3 days as it was unridable like that. Other than that, once the initial excitement fades, its still just a bike. Depends what you do with it. I got this as a kind of SUV for day tours eith my wife. Its kinda not really much good at that task tbh. Here in germany, it can only assist up to 25kmh. Above that, the behavior of the mgu is frankly awful. It blocks the peddles like putting the breaks on the motor. Jerky and not nice at all. I wonder why nobody is talking abou this on YouTube. Its totally different to how i.e. a bosch cx behaves without assist. it feels like its broke if assist is off. Kinda regretting it already, as an early adopter. Its kinda not really ridable above 25kmh unless you are rolling downhill. You cant turn the peddles. My suggestion to any potential buyer would be to try it out fully. Rent one or test one for a full day. I did not have that opportunity. If I had such an opportunity, I would not have let myself get carried away by the hype and those youtube videos. Lesson to be learned „try properly before you buy“......i think the hype around pinion MGU is all marketing at this point. Its being pushed real hard right now. Sure, Its pretty good. Its alright, ect. Obviously the package is technically very interesting to any obsessive person(like myself) who has to have the latest + greatest. However in reality, I struggle to keep up with my wife on her ktm bosch cx wich is a couple if years old, and cost less half what my new mgu super wizzbang has cost. The battery is 960w, hers is 750w. Hers is much quieter, smoother, far less flapping around, and way better behaved without assist. The mgu promises much, but frankly it does not really deliver on the hype IMO. On paper and youtube, it all sounds/looks great, but in reality I am struggling to find advantages in actual use. Having said all that, i do think this is the future. but before its gets to the bosch cx level of refinement, they have much work to do, and early adopters like myself are going to be remain somewhat disappointed. I have been here before with other new/fancy tech.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MTB/comments/1d5h02o