Pinion Motor.Gearbox.Unit (MGU)

[Rás Cnoic]

Bosch E-Bike does not seem to be worried by Pinion.MGU

Could of sworn I posted the same link in this thread last week where I said:

Interestingly, today there is another review/discussion with Alan Jones and the head of Bosch bike systems Claus Fleische, testing his own Nicolai/Bosch prototype with a Bosch CX race motor coupled with Gates Carbon Drive and a 3x3 internal gear hub.



The fact that Bosch have a prototype of this non derailleur Emtb and are happy to go public with it (deliberately going public) suggests the emtb industry is looking long and hard at non derailleur drive trains for electric mountain bikes.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Interestingly, today there is another review/discussion with Alan Jones and the head of Bosch bike systems Claus Fleische, testing his own Nicolai/Bosch prototype with a Bosch CX race motor coupled with Gates Carbon Drive and a 3x3 internal gear hub.

Perhaps I misheard it but was not that a Bosch SX?

The fact that Bosch have a prototype of this non derailleur Emtb and are happy to go public with it (deliberately going public) suggests the emtb industry is looking long and hard at non derailleur drive trains for electric mountain bikes.

No doubt industry is looking at alternatives to derailleur. My point was a big company such as Bosch E-Bike has the influence on the industry, while Pinion is a very small company...

what is interesting is the direct mount system for the RD, and all the extra stiffness that provides.

I was impressed when the Berm Peak man (what's his name?) stood on the SRAM derailleur and nothing wrong happened. I tried the GX Eagle AXS Transmission on an Epic 8 Expert myself. It was an amazing experience!

Again, the Berm Peak man was positive about the traditional Pinion Gearbox but he installed the latest SRAM Transmission on his $13,000 custom MTB. I wonder why.

 

[Rás Cnoic]

Perhaps I misheard it but was not that a Bosch SX?


No doubt industry is looking at alternatives to derailleur. My point was a big company such as Bosch E-Bike has the influence on the industry, while Pinion is a very small company...


I was impressed when the Berm Peak man (what's his name?) stood on the SRAM derailleur and nothing wrong happened. I tried the GX Eagle AXS Transmission on an Epic 8 Expert myself. It was an amazing experience!

Again, the Berm Peak man was positive about the traditional Pinion Gearbox but he installed the latest SRAM Transmission on his $13,000 custom MTB. I wonder why.

Because you need a pinion specced frame to fit a gear box and gates belt? Because I don’t know yet of any brand available in the US with the MGU? Isn’t that obvious? I addressed the Sram derailleur up above- like any derailleur despite being bulked up it’s still vulnerable to rocks and the like, still needs maintenance and the drive train still wears out quickly in off road use. Plus there is the cost. It’s not cheap.

Berm man tests the traditional pinion gear box on analogue mtb. Likes it but main criticism is cost(!) twist shift - it’s 2024 had he not heard of pinion smart shift? Plus weight and efficiency. Something all IGH’s have in common.

That’s the point of the MGU, with weight and efficiency not being an issue with a powerful motor. It’s a pretty lazy & unscientific review about a gear box that’s been on the market since 2010 or so. Where has he been hiding?! There probably aren’t many Rolhoff IGH out in his neck of the woods either for same reason of cost. For small companies with precision engineering the cost will be high. Again that’s obvious. But again you’re struggling to scrape together dodgy evidence against Pinion and it seems a little crazy of you. Since they announced the MGU less then a year ago and not as a prototype but as a consumer ready product, you’ve made your dislike of it very clear. You want it to fail. Pinion as a small company seems to be doing just fine with over 100 bike brands now using their gearbox and a dozen already using the MGU in under a year.

Maybe look at the engineering and specs yourself so you get your facts correct:

PINION MOTOR.GEARBOX.UNIT | Motor and gearbox in one unit

The Pinion MGU brings together, what belongs together. It’s more than adrivetrain. It’s a powertrain. It's motor and gearbox unified.

pinion.eu

You can complain about cheap Chinese warehouse & DIY (though you clearly don’t know enough about these) but you cannot fault Pinion on engineering or commitment or knowing what they are talking about. This vendetta of yours seems all such a pointless waste of time.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Because you need a pinion specced frame to fit a gear box and gates belt?

That's the whole point. No big brand would venture into a new line of e-bikes backed up by a small German company. Even Nicolai is trying his luck with Bosch SX (and the belt-drive system and 3x3). Besides, have you read a recent post of a member from Czech Republic? 3x3 would not sell him the hub as it is an OEM product and B2B policy. Well, well, well...

Berm man tests the traditional pinion gear box on analogue mtb. Likes it but main criticism is cost(!) twist shift - it’s 2024 had he not heard of pinion smart shift? Plus weight and efficiency. Something all IGH’s have in common.

The man is positive about the Pinion. Only he mentioned there was only 10-12 thousand Pinion bikes in the whole U.S.

You want it to fail.

This vendetta of yours seems all such a pointless waste of time.

Pinion stands no chance unless every enthusiast would declare: 'As soon as a Pinion.MGU becomes available, I'm buing it immediately, for good and bad!' Praising a product than might never come true is the actual waste of time.

 

[il Munduato]

Because you need a pinion specced frame to fit a gear box and gates belt? Because I don’t know yet of any brand available in the US with the MGU? Isn’t that obvious? I addressed the Sram derailleur up above- like any derailleur despite being bulked up it’s still vulnerable to rocks and the like, still needs maintenance and the drive train still wears out quickly in off road use. Plus there is the cost. It’s not cheap.

Berm man tests the traditional pinion gear box on analogue mtb. Likes it but main criticism is cost(!) twist shift - it’s 2024 had he not heard of pinion smart shift? Plus weight and efficiency. Something all IGH’s have in common.

That’s the point of the MGU, with weight and efficiency not being an issue with a powerful motor. It’s a pretty lazy & unscientific review about a gear box that’s been on the market since 2010 or so. Where has he been hiding?! There probably aren’t many Rolhoff IGH out in his neck of the woods either for same reason of cost. For small companies with precision engineering the cost will be high. Again that’s obvious. But again you’re struggling to scrape together dodgy evidence against Pinion and it seems a little crazy of you. Since they announced the MGU less then a year ago and not as a prototype but as a consumer ready product, you’ve made your dislike of it very clear. You want it to fail. Pinion as a small company seems to be doing just fine with over 100 bike brands now using their gearbox and a dozen already using the MGU in under a year.

Maybe look at the engineering and specs yourself so you get your facts correct:

PINION MOTOR.GEARBOX.UNIT | Motor and gearbox in one unit

The Pinion MGU brings together, what belongs together. It’s more than adrivetrain. It’s a powertrain. It's motor and gearbox unified.

pinion.eu

You can complain about cheap Chinese warehouse & DIY (though you clearly don’t know enough about these) but you cannot fault Pinion on engineering or commitment or knowing what they are talking about. This vendetta of yours seems all such a pointless waste of time.

For me it's perfectly fine if the Pinion MGU isn't (won't be) adopted by the major manufacturers as I prefer to buy from small company such as Pinion that has a quality innovative product then be part of some mainstream flock of sheep. I love my Rohloff and would adopt a Pinion in a second when available in the US.
Globally there's already enough interest and companies offering it for me to take it as good sign of things to come.

 

[Rás Cnoic]

Nice looking e bike with similar gearbox motor from Decathlon.

Decathlon BTWIN LD 920 E | E2 Drives Owuru/702 Wh | 30 mm (f)
24 kg in size M | € 2,499 |

Great price! Designed for commuting and city riding it doesn't have the low gearing as the Pinion (horses for courses). It's made by small Belgian company E2 Drive who've spent several years developing the tech:

Decathlon BTWIN LD 920 E | E2 Drives Owuru/702 Wh | 30 mm (f)
24 kg in size M | € 2,499 |

E2 Drives and Decathlon develop a motor-gear unit for ebikes

The sector of systems that combine motor and gearbox in one unit is growing. The first ebikes with a new drive are already coming onto the market.

www.ebike24.com

 

[Rás Cnoic]

Rider/owner review of this Decathlon MGU bike. It's in Italian, use Youtube subs if needed.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Rider/owner review of this Decathlon MGU bike.

Only 3200 quids, available at Decathlon, 700 Wh battery, fully automatic 265% drivetrain, sadly still a chain. Cannot wait to see a user here soon!

This e-bike reminds me of Van Moof. Everything's there is proprietary and integrated. No chance for own repair or modifications, especially post warranty. I wonder for how many years would Decathlon stand by this product.

 

[BlackHand]

The Decathlon system cadence range of 40 to 90 seems a little low. Between that and the 265% range it's probably only good for city commuting or maybe for the flatlanders among us.

Still, the price seems ok @ £2500 - about the same as a $500 fat folder with a SRAM XX sl Transmission groupset upgrade from Walmart

 

[Rás Cnoic]

Nice write up on the Gates blog of the Tout Terrain Pamir launched last July at Eurobike. The Journo got to use this Pamir for a few weeks around Seattle so maybe Tout Terrain’s are available in the States.

Exploring Seattle on a Belt Drive Expedition Ebike

Gates Carbon Drive

blog.gatescarbondrive.com

 

[Rás Cnoic]

The new Diem model range from Orbea. 3 models, 1 trad derailleur the other 2 with Shimano Nexus IGH, gates drive & Shimano EP6 motor with 85nm plus a 630wh battery. The Nexus hub gears is the Nexus 5e designed to handle the extra torque of mid drive motors apparently. The bike has an interesting trapezoid frame designed for extra compliance & comfort. Looks beautiful as well. Bikes seem smartly equipped with mudguards rack & built in lights etc and with dropper post as standard.

Bold new ideas: our review of the Orbea Diem with its innovative frame and unique design — urbanbike.news

Spain’s brand Orbea recently launched its Diem as a whole new model series – an urban bike that goes its own way and comes up with exciting innovations. In our review, we take a detailed look at this bike and discover whether Orbea’s bold new ideas pay off. Design Even at first glance, you can […]

urbanbike.news

 

[Rás Cnoic]

The Decathlon system cadence range of 40 to 90 seems a little low. Between that and the 265% range it's probably only good for city commuting or maybe for the flatlanders among us.

Still, the price seems ok @ £2500 - about the same as a $500 fat folder with a SRAM XX sl Transmission groupset upgrade from Walmart

Yeah that’s what I thought. But it does say in the review that although Decathlon rates the motor at a conservative 65nm because of the variable transmission it does go up to 120nm so it has some power there. In the Italian review the rider goes up a steep hill to a castle and though he’s out of breath he can keep talking and the bike makes it up there fine. Guess it would take a test ride to see how efficient on hills it is. I’m interested to try because of the automatic gears, no gear shifter, just pick desired cadence and off you go. Very interesting. Beast of a bike though at 27kg. Looks like Decathlon are in for the long haul as they’ve bought the motor company and now it’s a subsidiary of Decathlon. They must like what they see here. Curious if they release other models with this motor and lower gearing like a trekking bike or even an emtb. With that competitive price tag I would love to see that.

 

[onlineaddy]

MGU comparisons (Pinion MGU E1.12, Valeo Cyclee, E2 Drives Owuru):
Comparing three ebike motor/gearbox units [E-MOUNTAINBIKE]

 

[dblhelix]

New for 2025 - R&M introduces Pinion MGU for Delite5, Homage5 models

 

[Rás Cnoic]

Pinion MGU updates at Eurobike 24:

 

[mschwett]

Pinion MGU updates at Eurobike 24:

it really seems like a great concept for anything but an ultra-light e-bike.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Pinion MGU updates at Eurobike 24:

Where's that drool emoji when you need it?

 

[Rás Cnoic]

Where's that drool emoji when you need it?

Christ that cherry red looks fantastic!

 

[BlackHand]

TRP is really going on the offensive this year. Besides being used by Pinion here with its TRP Hywire brifters, TRP is also partnering with Classified for a pretty nifty solution that combines the TRP 1x12 groupset with the Classified 2x hub to give you an effective 1x16 gear range with close stepping between gears. The system can be set to auto select whether to shift the cassette or the hub (which is basically an underdrive) to eliminate the overlapping gears whenever the rider shifts. Seems pretty niche given the price, and is kind of reinventing the wheel, but could be a good solution for frames and drive units that don't support a front derailleur.

Their 1x12 electronic groupset is also supported by Bosch for autoshifting with eShift (used to only support hubs, but now supports Shimano and TRP electronic derailleur groupsets).

Interesting to watch this dance between drivetrain manufacturers and motor manufacturers as they partner up on integrated solutions.

 

[Rás Cnoic]

Interesting to watch this dance between drivetrain manufacturers and motor manufacturers as they partner up on integrated solutions.

It is isn’t it! Fascinating times.