It's really interesting, there seems there are two distinct groups of ebikers emerging. Those who basically want an electric motorbike, you know, 45km/h with some required effort (get to work not sweating). And those who want as close to a traditional biking experience as possible - still hurt on their ride. With the animosity toward ebiking in general, it seems disingenuous to elevate one e-powered bike choice over the other. The Orbea seems like a logical choice for those who want a slight advantage. Not so much for those who want a great deal more assistance. Each to their own.
Orbea Gain E-Road Bike
- Thread starter Rincon
- Start date
There is one more thing to keep in mind. If you buy a non-electric bike there's an excellant chance that you can keep it for decades. Most of the components that come on the bike can be replaced when they wear out since there's a fair amount of standardization and you're dealing with mechanical parts. There are also vendors that have been around for a long time and there's a good chance they'll be around in the future. With an electric bike you're dealing with batteries, bms and other electrical components that have a very definite life span and vendors come and go. In many cases the components are unique so when they go replacements are hard if not impossible to replace. It's one thing to pay $10k for a bike knowing that you can get years of life out of it and quite another to spend $4k for a bike that may have to be trashed in 4 years - just look at Farady bikes. Great reviews but now out of business, so as their internal batteries wear out they become a regular bike hampered by extra non-functioning weight. You might be able to kluge some type of rebuild for the battery, but who really wants to take a risk on a third party when dealing with lithium batteries? If you're in good shape for such a short commute a non-electric bike seems like it might be a better solution. Of course, cost is a relative thing so if it's not an issue go for it, but for a lot of people who are used to cars where replacement parts are mandated for a certain amount of time by law (at least in the US and the EU) I'm not sure enough consideration is given to what happens when consumables run out.
Very true. But bicycles depreciate greatly so that 5 year old bike might be fully functional but won't be worth much. Automobiles too. I'm hoping my ebike can go 5 years without experiencing a problem that can't be fixed. Orbea is an established bike company. I can't see it going out of business. Ebikemotion, not so sure.
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Deacon Blues
Well-Known Member
I emailed Orbea to find out when they plan on bringing the Gain into Canada. Their reply was that they didn't know. Looks like it could be a while, if ever.
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Another way to look at it is that the Orbea is a relatively light weight bike to begin with. If the motor/battery dies after, as you say, four years, you can easily enough remove the battery and motor components and have a functioning sub 10kg regular bike in perpetuity.
Another way to look at it is that the Orbea is a relatively light weight bike to begin with. If the motor/battery dies after, as you say, four years, you can easily enough remove the battery and motor components and have a functioning sub 10kg regular bike in perpetuity.
The Orbea has the same motor power output, 250 watt. They are both Class 1 bikes. The Cannondale is aluminum and a lot heavier (37 lbs. vs. 25), but the battery is twice as large. Have you looked at the Trek Domane+? It has a 350 watt motor and a carbon frame and is pretty light (38 lbs.) for a Class 3 bike (28 mph top speed).
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Deacon Blues
Well-Known Member
Are the Gains coming into N.A. using the same 250W motor? I've heard that they may be bumped up to 350W, to handle the higher top speed. It would be nice, but it's probably not going to happen.
I bought a Gain M30 a couple of weeks ago. It has a 250 W motor and 20 mph max speed. I'm in the US. I'm not sure why you would want more power on a Class 1 ebike with a small (250 wh) battery. It has more than enough power for me. I've rarely used the high power mode and if I used it a lot more, I'd deplete the battery before my ride was completed. Seems like you would be happier with a Class 3, higher powered ebike (but aren't you limited to 20 mph in Canada?).
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This is a good article, with one large error, thanks for the link.
The biggest drawback the writer noted was that the ebikemotion system provided too much assistance. This has been stated in a number of other professional reviews - however, they have also added that with the companion app you are able to adjust the level of assistance provided across the range of modes. Therefore, a lighter, fitter rider can lower the assistance right down in all modes, or conversely, up the assistance as required. Seems like the ebikemotion system is clearly ahead.
JRA
Well-Known Member
It also could be attributed to the efficiency of the hub motor being separate from the drive train as the test alludes to over the mid drive as well as the sensitivity of the torque assist system. Being low power systems to begin with it is hard to believe that either system is capable of too much assistance at the lower ratios but road bikers are very sensitive to their pedal in put and regardless of the assist level if the TA comes on strong it may be construed as providing more power. I don't know as I don't ride with a TA system on my road bikes and this is just speculation on my part.
However one thing I did note was that the Q factor of the Fazua system is wider than normal and that could potentially be a deal breaker for some road cyclists. Overall position on a road bike is important to many and that is why there are people willing to pay $$ for fit analysis and Q factor plays a part in that. For the average rider just looking to tool around on a drop bar bike however it probably won't be a factor.
Then there is the extra weight, 1kilo, of the Fazua system which is another point that is considered critical in the road cycling community. But once again probably not a big factor with most that are attracted to these type of eBikes as the assist will cover the cost for the most part.
Along with the Bosch system there is also the Bafang M800 as another mid drive contender for this market as seen on the lightweight IGO. It seems like ebikemotion is the lone hub contender but if it does well against the mid drives in comparative testing, as it seems to here, I am sure there will be other systems that come forward over time. A big problem with hub motors is that most have a 36h drilling which makes them harder to mate with quality rims, especially tubeless type. They also have solid axles and need to switch to thru axle type. If the Bafang G series motors would go to 32h and thru axle @ 2.6kg, which switching to thru axle should shed some weight, and paired with the M800 integrated battery it might make a good OEM system as it is a very efficient geared motor.
For sure this won't be the last comparison test produced and going forward it will be interesting to see how it all shakes out.
My Gain has 32 spokes for the rear hub. It would be nice if the hub had a thru axle instead of axle nuts and that connector isn't that easy to mate and demate. There's a plastic cover on the bottom on the chainstay that makes it harder to get at that connector. Lack of a thru axle isn't a biggy for me; the access to the connector is more so.
Mid drive motors have drag when the motor is disengaged (except for the Fazua motor). That's a big negative, I would think. It's nice having a double crank too as most mid drives have a single chainring. I've got plenty of gears to choose from.
Jaxx
Well-Known Member
JRA, makes a valid point concerning Q Factor and bike fit. Coming from a racing background since the 60's it was important for me to not have too radical a riding position over my high-end road bikes (Storck, Basso and Trek) For this reason I have a Gain M30 on order, with upgraded Carbon Cosmic wheels (TLR) This again addresses the point made by JRA concerning quality wheels. Obrea, have I believed, done an excellent job in presenting this model, in order to appeal too a specific market.
Deacon Blues
Well-Known Member
I think the M30, with a carbon wheel upgrade, is the 'best bang for the buck' in the Gain lineup.
Jaxx
Well-Known Member
Deacon, I should have wrote M20. However I do agree with you concerning "Value for Money" the M30 is the sensible option. Will anyway be upgrading some parts to Dura Ace that I have lying around. Especially the cassette, don't need a 32 bottom sprocket and there's a big weight saving over the cassette and chain to be had.
Deacon Blues
Well-Known Member
I have to admit that I love the Di2 setup I have on my Defy Advanced Pro 0, but I've put 7,000 trouble free kms on my Diverge's 105 groupset and would be fine with buying another bike with 105s.
Jaxx
Well-Known Member
Not gonna argue with that statement. Only Shimano set I haven't used is Claris.
Don't expect I would be disappointed either?
I added up the weights of the components. Ultegra saves 0.3 lbs over 105. People on another forum that have or ridden both, including bike mechanics that work on them, say functionally they are equivalent, including the disc brakes. I decided to save the $800 and put that towards the bottle battery. The only other difference between the M20 and M30 are the stem and bars.
Jaxx
Well-Known Member
Both of which are been swapped over including saddle, from one of my road bikes. BTW, someone was asking about discounts? I obtained just under 10% It should be prefaced though, I've been using the LBS since 1965. But would suggest discounting is available? And that was on a custom order.
You might need a new seatpost. The bike comes with a slack (72.6 degree) seat tube angle. My saddle is shoved all the way forward on the rails and I'm still short of my "fitted" position by 3-4mm. It seems OK so I'm going to live with it. I too put on my preferred saddle. Odd that the aluminum Gains have a 74 degree seat tube angle.
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