Open Letter to Specialized

[Stefan Mikes]

Both are equally good.

 

[dynamic]

Both are equally good.

Wow. I am surprised. I was expecting at least a 500 word opinion!

I settled for step over. I originally wanted step through simply because a child seat was going to be on the bike frequently. But we decided kids aren’t going behind bikes for a while. Which made step through less appealing.

Outside of practicality, there is no other issue? Surprising.

 

[Brendon@OEB]

Both are equally good.

Technically the high step is stiffer on paper, whether you can notice it or not is a different topic (most folks can't save for larger/heavier riders).

Amazing you still bought this bike given what you went through. Additionally baffling you went with a Brose motor after stating how hard you are on motors. Albeit the newer one that hasn't had much time in the market, hopefully it's track record improves over the previous version.

Best of luck moving forward and congrats on the new bike!

 

[dynamic]

Technically the high step is stiffer on paper, whether you can notice it or not is a different topic (most folks can't save for larger/heavier riders).

Amazing you still bought this bike given what you went through. Additionally baffling you went with a Brose motor after stating how hard you are on motors. Albeit the newer one that hasn't had much time in the market, hopefully it's track record improves over the previous version.

Best of luck moving forward and congrats on the new bike!

I don’t know that I am hard on motors. I think it is a possibility. I still don’t know what was wrong with the motor that had problems. The second bike was showing extreme battery depletion which was also happening on the first bike before it shut down during rides. I simply gave up.

Every manufacturer has horror stories. And every product has lemons. My son’s riprock 24 that I bought in june is in for failing front hydraulic brakes. The risk mitigation for me is having a helpful LBS. They took it and said they will fix it up in a day or two. As opposed to a 3 week in the future work order for the currents. All these companies seem to support their customers within their respective warranties. With bosch and specialized bikes that use fairly standardized parts, my LBS can easily do all the work. And buying specialized (even direct to consumer) supports them more than buying anything else.

It is true, I am not thrilled with specialized as a company. But as I talked to them more, it became pretty obvious these are teething issues and not anti-consumer policies as is the case with some companies. Some of the purchase policies are consumer protection. Yes, their current system does not allow them to do things they should be able to do. And it caught me multiple times on a single order. They also started this on Feb 1st of this year. I can have quite a bit of tolerance when I think it is warranted.

But, the only other thing I could possibly justify given the above is the gazelle you sell. Anything else would be another internet direct company with motors or other parts where my LBS won’t be as useful.

And, finally, the vado 4.0 was the most comfortable and fun bike I tried. The serial 1 shifting made it even easier, and I expect the 5.0 igh to combine both those bikes. If so, then I will likely be quite happy with it.

If I get a broken motor in the first 30 days, I will not be happy. ;p and I will probably be on to bosch.

Honestly, I am more concerned that the season is ending. 30 days could be all I get for good riding this year.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Technically the high step is stiffer on paper, whether you can notice it or not is a different topic

I should see such a paper yet Some experimental data.

While I have no opinion on true Low-Step e-bikes (ones without the top tube whatsoever), I can say lowering of the top tube for an ST e-bike causes no adverse effects. The frame components in, say, Vados are massive and strong. They are beautifully hydroformed to make the components strong where they need to be strong, and thinner where weight saving can be achieved. I started riding a Step-Thru Vado when I was over 236 lbs, and never felt any slightest flex in the frame. I also own a far lighter high-step Vado SL, and cannot feel any difference in stiffness between these two frames.

If I get a broken motor in the first 30 days, I will not be happy.

Why worry?

Dynamic, people who worry too much are hated by their e-bikes! (GuruUno is a model specimen). More positive attitude please? Just ride on!

 

[dynamic]

Dynamic, people who worry too much are hated by their e-bikes! (GuruUno is a model specimen). More positive attitude please? Just ride on!

My experience with products that die early also die often. While said products are broken, I can’t ride anywhere. I wish I could just ignore that and “ride on”.

Does the como have stiffness issues?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

My experience with products that die early also die often. While said products are broken, I can’t ride anywhere. I wish I could just ignore that and “ride on”.

Does the como have stiffness issues?

Not the one I've ridden.

@dynamic, some trust please. You are buying an e-bike not only from a leading world bicycle manufacturer but also from the company that is the leader of market trends in e-bikes. No worries, I said.

 

[Zekeer]

My experience with products that die early also die often. While said products are broken, I can’t ride anywhere. I wish I could just ignore that and “ride on”.

Does the como have stiffness issues?

Hey New here : Name is Zeke : I had almost identical experience to you when ordering a Vado for my wife online. I was using a debit card . But it all was canceled just like your order . Here's what I discovered : Because certain High quality Bike companies have a direct buy , cut out the middle man program . When you buy a Bike from Specialized directly and have it sent thru the retailer . The retailer doesn't make any money beyond setup fees .

If you confronted your local LBS they aren't going to admit that to you. When it comes to your free ride and test for 30 days . You are also encountering a marketing program that was set up when getting a New Bike was easy . Today they are scarce .

In today's world it no longer seems to matter what's right . Things seem to have changed some

I also found this info out because the Specialized Dealer I bought my Bike from didn't even come up as an online option. Even when I inserted their name the software on the Webpage changed it to another dealer. So I asked the guy I know pretty well at my local LBS, what's up? Thus my reply Thanks Nice to be here

Your best bet IMO is to find a bike on someone's show room floor .

 

[dynamic]

Hey New here : Name is Zeke : I had almost identical experience to you when ordering a Vado for my wife online. I was using a debit card . But it all was canceled just like your order . Here's what I discovered : Because certain High quality Bike companies have a direct buy , cut out the middle man program . When you buy a Bike from Specialized directly and have it sent thru the retailer . The retailer doesn't make any money beyond setup fees .

If you confronted your local LBS they aren't going to admit that to you. When it comes to your free ride and test for 30 days . You are also encountering a marketing program that was set up when getting a New Bike was easy . Today they are scarce .

In today's world it no longer seems to matter what's right . Things seem to have changed some

I also found this info out because the Specialized Dealer I bought my Bike from didn't even come up as an online option. Even when I inserted their name the software on the Webpage changed it to another dealer. So I asked the guy I know pretty well at my local LBS, what's up? Thus my reply Thanks Nice to be here

Unfortunately, it’s not that simple here. The bike was cancelled due to miscommunication. My LBS does do direct to consumer orders. But it’s a moot point since the LBS can’t get these bikes directly for months.

What did you end up buying?

 

[Zekeer]

Unfortunately, it’s not that simple here. The bike was cancelled due to miscommunication. My LBS does do direct to consumer orders. But it’s a moot point since the LBS can’t get these bikes directly for months.

What did you end up buying?

I looked online and found a 2022 Vado 4 and a 2021 Vado 4 . They were a 360 Mile round trip away . So we went last Saturday and she rode both Bikes . Although the 2022 Vado had the upgrades for the display . Last years Vado Motor was like my 2020 Vado 4 . Dead Quiet . They gave us a deal as it had 104 miles on it . This place had an indoor track to ride on . 100 yards long . That made it nice to test the Bikes out . The LBS is in an old piano factory . So there was a track as wide as a street to do a test ride on . My wife liked the Older Vado as well as the Newer one . Plus they gave us a deal on it . $3000 out the door .

I have a Truck as well as a One Up Rack . So we took my wife's SUV for gas mileage and stuck the Bike on a rack . Do you have a rack or can you borrow one ?

 

[dynamic]

I have a Truck as well as a One Up Rack . So we took my wife's SUV for gas mileage and stuck the Bike on a rack . Do you have a rack or can you borrow one ?

I can’t transport bikes. I have sedans with no option for a hitch. We are in the process of getting new cars, but covid has made that a long and complicated process for leased vehicles. Ebikes need hitch racks.

A honda ridgeline is a possibility. But, for the time being, moving bikes while not riding them is difficult. I can *just* fit the riprock 24 in the backseat of the larger sedan. If I remove the front wheel I can probably move one bike as long as I don’t need anyone in the back seat.

 

[Zekeer]

I can’t transport bikes. I have sedans with no option for a hitch. We are in the process of getting new cars, but covid has made that a long and complicated process for leased vehicles. Ebikes need hitch racks.

A honda ridgeline is a possibility. But, for the time being, moving bikes while not riding them is difficult. I can *just* fit the riprock 24 in the backseat of the larger sedan. If I remove the front wheel I can probably move one bike as long as I don’t need anyone in the back seat.

You must make a healthy income .

 

[dynamic]

You must make a healthy income .

I do fine. I am also really good at financial planning. So very little of my money is “wasted” on interest or poor purchases. That’s one reason the klarna thing frustrates me so much. Unless I choose to pay this off in cash (which is not optimum from a financial planning perspective) I will absorb *some* interest. Not a lot. But some.

 

[Zekeer]

I do fine. I am also really good at financial planning. So very little of my money is “wasted” on interest or poor purchases. That’s one reason the klarna thing frustrates me so much. Unless I choose to pay this off in cash (which is not optimum from a financial planning perspective) I will absorb *some* interest. Not a lot. But some.

Maybe your lack of paying interest is why Klarna bumped you . Companies are in business to make money . Like when you lease . Which has gotten harder because cars are in short supply and the dealer isn't profiting as much on leasing as they were when interest was lower . Because leasing is all about benefiting the Dealers. A consumer can't get out of leasing once started without getting buried .

*

 

[dynamic]

Maybe your lack of paying interest is why Klarna bumped you . Companies are in business to make money . Like when you lease . Which has gotten harder because cars are in short supply and the dealer isn't profiting as much on leasing as they were when interest was lower . Because leasing is all about benefiting the Dealers. A consumer can't get out of leasing once started without getting buried .

*

First, you can get out of leasing without absorbing negative equity if your car is worth more than the payoff amount. However, covid caused many captive lease companies to only allow you to do that at the brand dealership, or with the payoff amount to the consumer. Both my cars values are worth more than what is owed and pre-covid I would have simply traded them in mid-lease (I have done this many times). I could still do this today if I wanted the same brand I currently have. Not all lease companies impose this limit. I can still buy out both cars and immediately trade them in. It’s just more work on my part (and it’s not without risk)

Companies like klarna are paid for their 0% interest offers. Typically they have a contract with the seller, and the seller pays them to provide that service. In this case it is likely specialized has a deal with klarna to do exactly that. The seller benefits by being able to sell bikes to people who may otherwise be unable to buy them. And that “cost” comes at essentially paying the customer’s interest for them.

The fact that klarna won’t let me after previously approving a more expensive purchase makes no sense. And specialized should be angry with them as it nearly prevented me from buying anything specialized and simply going elsewhere. Ultimately I decided the amount of interest I may absorb is outweighed by the lower risk of the specialized with LBS support. So I bought it using other methods.

 

[Zekeer]

First, you can get out of leasing without absorbing negative equity if your car is worth more than the payoff amount. However, covid caused many captive lease companies to only allow you to do that at the brand dealership, or with the payoff amount to the consumer. Both my cars values are worth more than what is owed and pre-covid I would have simply traded them in mid-lease (I have done this many times). I could still do this today if I wanted the same brand I currently have. Not all lease companies impose this limit. I can still buy out both cars and immediately trade them in. It’s just more work on my part (and it’s not without risk)

Companies like klarna are paid for their 0% interest offers. Typically they have a contract with the seller, and the seller pays them to provide that service. In this case it is likely specialized has a deal with klarna to do exactly that. The seller benefits by being able to sell bikes to people who may otherwise be unable to buy them. And that “cost” comes at essentially paying the customer’s interest for them.

The fact that klarna won’t let me after previously approving a more expensive purchase makes no sense. And specialized should be angry with them as it nearly prevented me from buying anything specialized and simply going elsewhere. Ultimately I decided the amount of interest I may absorb is outweighed by the lower risk of the specialized with LBS support. So I bought it using other methods.

Hmmmmm

 

[dynamic]

@dynamic, some trust please. You are buying an e-bike not only from a leading world bicycle manufacturer but also from the company that is the leader of market trends in e-bikes. No worries, I said.

I get it. It's one reason they got another shot. But, in my experience, there are plenty of "world leading" brands that, for me, are junk. I honestly do not believe that to be the case here. I think I got unlucky. And *none* of this has anything to do with the quality of the product.

I am currently researching panniers, clipless shoes/dual platform pedals, studded winter tires and winter biking clothes like I will bike for the rest of my existence. The burley cargo trailer will likely be purchased once the vado is put through its paces. I hope to shop by bike a few times per week when the winter doesn't stop me.

One of my favorite things to do on the previous bikes was a speed town run to pickup something that fit in the pannier. It could be faster than going by car sometimes. That made it worthwhile.

So hopefully, this is just hiccups at the beginning of a new adventure.

 

[Brendon@OEB]

Hey New here : Name is Zeke : I had almost identical experience to you when ordering a Vado for my wife online. I was using a debit card . But it all was canceled just like your order . Here's what I discovered : Because certain High quality Bike companies have a direct buy , cut out the middle man program . When you buy a Bike from Specialized directly and have it sent thru the retailer . The retailer doesn't make any money beyond setup fees .

If you confronted your local LBS they aren't going to admit that to you. When it comes to your free ride and test for 30 days . You are also encountering a marketing program that was set up when getting a New Bike was easy . Today they are scarce .

In today's world it no longer seems to matter what's right . Things seem to have changed some

I also found this info out because the Specialized Dealer I bought my Bike from didn't even come up as an online option. Even when I inserted their name the software on the Webpage changed it to another dealer. So I asked the guy I know pretty well at my local LBS, what's up? Thus my reply Thanks Nice to be here

Your best bet IMO is to find a bike on someone's show room floor .

That's not really true. The margin is split with direct online orders, the retailer gets some, just nowhere near what they would if they stocked the bike. Also there's various "hoops" one has to jump through to show up on various locators in addition to overall sales volume too. It's not that straight forward unfortunately!

Totally true buying a bike that's already on a showroom floor but for some that might not be an alternative depending on where a shop is and what that shop's focus is. Even us as an e-bike specific dealership have a limited offering of what's "on the floor" and that's coming from moving about 450-500 units annually. Not a ton compared to our competitors in, say, Socal, but something we can be proud of!

Back to the main topic, have you gotten some miles on your bike yet??!?!

 

[dynamic]

The margin is split with direct online orders, the retailer gets some, just nowhere near what they would if they stocked the bike.

True. But if I ordered a gazelle from you (or any other bike, anywhere else), they would get nothing *and* I would be at the end of a work order wait list if I needed anything. Something is better than nothing for them. If they offered me less risk, I would have bought the bike that sat in their basement. That was their decision. Mine, if I was giving up klarna, was to retain what specialized offers direct to consumer.

Back to the main topic, have you gotten some miles on your bike yet??!?!

It arrives at the LBS on tuesday by current fedex estimates. You know how accurate those can be. I imagine it will be at least a day or two before it is built and made available to me.
I plan to take it on the same short trip I demoed all the other bikes from the store. Up a 9.2% grade into a local park, and back to the store. About a mile each way covering all kinds of terrain. Multiple vados, serial 1 even a diverge evo (that one didn't make the whole trip as I realized I am not ready for a regular bike) have done that. If it handles that ride well (as the vado 4.0 and serial 1 did) it can handle all my terrain needs. I expect it to do that as good or better than anything else.

After that, I am going to try and put 10 miles a day on it, weather permitting. I have a circle I like to do. That circle was getting bigger almost every run before I sent the bikes back. The 10 mile version is about as big as it can get without doubling or tripling the distance or adding truly terrifying hills. Not quite there yet. And, the battery of the bike would have to prove it's capable enough for my current fitness levels. On the previous bikes, I did the circle two different ways: one was liberal with pedal assist. The other as "minimum" as I can. One of my personal goals is eventually to do that trip on a regular bike. Gonna be a while before that is possible. The time difference is pretty extreme, and a few of the hills still needed high level pedal assist for some sections unless I was ok with collapsing at the end.

Can't wait!

 

[Zekeer]

That's not really true. The margin is split with direct online orders, the retailer gets some, just nowhere near what they would if they stocked the bike. Also there's various "hoops" one has to jump through to show up on various locators in addition to overall sales volume too. It's not that straight forward unfortunately!

Totally true buying a bike that's already on a showroom floor but for some that might not be an alternative depending on where a shop is and what that shop's focus is. Even us as an e-bike specific dealership have a limited offering of what's "on the floor" and that's coming from moving about 450-500 units annually. Not a ton compared to our competitors in, say, Socal, but something we can be proud of!

Back to the main topic, have you gotten some miles on your bike yet??!?!

It's my wife and not yet we both are sadly still working . We are both old enough to retire . I actually had . Unfortunately many people in America have turned into free hand-out bums . We were both compensated for working past retirement . But this is our last year regardless of how much they offer us . It's not worth it . Life is to short . Anyway planning on riding this weekend