Nyon Retrofit

[KIOMON]

I got a new nyon off eBay and it arrived today. I have a 2018 Haibike, which came with the Intuvia. I charged the Nyon (it was dead) and connected to WiFi. It updated its software and then I downloaded the app from Apple for my iPhone. Everything went smooth. I put the unit on my bike and it just worked! Reading this forum, I thought I needed the special controller, but my Intuvia Controller works fine!

This is the 1GB version, but I can “stream maps” from my iPhone if I need more. But the entire 4 states around me only took up a few hundred MBs.

 

[myke15]

Hey everyone, Bosch finally answered our requests and the Ebike Connect app is now available on the Google Play store. No need to dowload APKs or use third party app installers. There is a new update as of July 4th, 2019.

Here is a link: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bosch.ebike&rdid=com.bosch.ebike

Updated
July 4, 2019
Size
43M
Installs
50,000+
Current Version
2.3.0.4
Requires Android
5.1 and up
Content Rating
Everyone
Learn More

 

[AlanDB]

Great news! Thanks for letting us know myke15!

 

[pokey]

I recently got a 1gb Nyon off of eBay for $45 and upgraded my 2018 Haibike SDURO Trekking 9.0. The computer worked just fine with my Intuvia controller, though I upgraded that with a Nyon controller as well. It's a great upgrade, especially at that price, and after a bit of wrangling, I got everything working with the Bosch eBike Connect application for iOS and the eBike Connect website over wifi. It works well enough that I'm not bothering to wear my Fitbit for route tracking anymore.

As @Alaskan said, the custom riding modes make all the difference in the world - it's almost like a new bike. My Performance Line CX engine is not great on battery life compared to engines with less torque, but with a custom ride mode I can get range estimates around 20 miles longer than before. There were some trips that were outside or on the edge of my of my Eco battery range that are now very possible and without the expense of a second battery.

I've also discovered that Eco mode is a lot of assistance, it just sucks when taking off from a stand still. So rather than burning battery life in Tour all the time, I have a custom ride mode that uses Sport level of support starting at zero mph but tapers off to slightly below Eco levels of assistance once I start going. The result is the bike still feels like it has a lot of kick, but I'm getting dramatically improved range and a bit more exercise.

It's also great having navigation on the bike. Open Street Maps is fine in Portland, Maine, It's better than Apple Maps, which doesn't even offer bike specific instruction, and while it's not as up-to-date as Google Maps, I've found that it's better at routing me over actual bike trails. I do wish that Bosch updated their OSM tiles more frequently, but it has a better interface than the OSM app for IOS and for a $45 upgrade, it's spectacular.

I did try riding for a few days with my phone mounted to my bike - the Nyon (and the Intuvia for that matter) are both capable of charging an iPhone if you get a Micro USB A -> Micro USB B -> lightning adaptor. That said, I found that the UI for mapping on my phone wasn't as well laid out for biking as the Nyon, and I found that having a smartphone on my handlebars was incredibly distracting. My expectation is that having a phone for navigation would be better than a dedicated GPS, but the Nyon is better. Having everything integrated on one screen designed for the eBike is very compelling.

I was wondering if the Bosch SmartphoneHub would be a better computer, but I really don't want my phone on my handlebars and as near as I can tell, the SmartphoneHub doesn't list custom riding modes as a feature; I'm not giving that up. If anything, I'd love for custom riding modes to be more advanced. Right now you can only vary the assistance based on speed, but I'd love to have access to more sensors such as current incline or heart rate. As it is, I almost never switch out of a single custom ride mode unless I hit a very steep hill. I could imagine with more sensors I'd never have to adjust the mode.


That said, there are some things I wish worked better with Nyon / eBike Connect:

1. No support of notifications from phone of any kind on iOS. I don't want a ton of notifications coming in, but call and weather alerts would be nice. The iOS app store page states that displaying incoming messages is currently disabled intentionally.

2. No support for syncing to Fitbit or Apple Health. The SmartphoneHub app can do this; eBike Connect can't. I'm not sure if Bosch is going to keep developing eBike Connect or even if they do, if they will keep it as a separate app from the acquired Cobi app. I don't expect better fitness integration any time soon.

3. No support of using a Fitbit, WearOS, or Apple Watch as a heart rate monitor. This is not a deal breaker, but it would be nice.

4. This one really bugs me because I think it's simply a bug with the iOS app - I'm able to set a Home and Work address on the eBike Connect website, and I'm able to sync those addresses to the Nyon. So, after a sync, I can select the "Take me Home" option from the navigation menu on the bike and it will route me back home. However, the website will sync all of my settings with the exception of Home/Work address to the iOS application. If I try to start a route on the iOS app to home, it thinks no address is set. Also, if the phone syncs to the Nyon over bluetooth, it will erase the Home/Work addresses on the Nyon. It seems whatever syncs last, bluetooth or wifi, wins. It's extremely annoying. The work around is I have a saved location called "Home" separate from the built-in Home address. I've tried setting up everything as new a few times, but it seems like there's no way to set or sync the Home/Work addresses to the iOS application.


I did contact Bosch on point #4 because it does look like a bug in the iOS app. This is the response I got:

Thank you for contacting Bosch eBike Service!

Sorry to hear you are having these issues. Currently the Nyon is not supported in North America. This is most likely why you are having these issues. I would suggest to switch to any of the other displays with the exception of the Kiox since it can only be had on new bikes. We just came out with the smartphone hub. You can check it out on our website Bosch-ebike.com

I guess that's fair from their point of view, but it's still kind of a lousy answer. I think it's simply a bug and most likely unrelated to where I'm using the computer.

In short, given the price at which you can get an older model Nyon, it's an amazing upgrade if you already have an Intuvia mount. Based on what I've read, I'm not sure I would want the new SmartphoneHub over Nyon - having a dedicated computer and the custom riding modes is worth more to me.




I'm so happy with it I've ordered another one to upgrade my girlfriend's 2019 Gazelle Arroyo C8 HMB Elite, even with the added cost of upgrading from that bike's Purion display.

What I would like to see however is an updated Nyon supported in the US (and all other regions) and I would love it if Bosch replaced the eBike Connect phone app with Cobi's software. It seems like Cobi's system is superior when it comes to integrating with other devices and services. I would also love more sensory input to customize riding modes. The primitive ride modes Nyon offers leads me to believe that we can have vastly improved range and battery life with computers that give us the support when we really need it the most while tapering it off when we need it less.

If anyone has figured out how to get Home/Work addresses to sync to the eBike Connect iOS application, I'd love to hear from you. I know it's a little bug with an easy work around but it drives me slightly mad.

 

[pokey]

Ok, just got a response from the German Bosch division that's different from the US support response regarding the iOS eBike connect application not syncing or storing Home and Work addresses:

Bei der iOS App besteht derzeit das technische Problem, dass die Home/Work Adresse nicht eingegeben oder geändert werden kann. Selbst wenn diese Adressen über das Portal gespeichert sind, werden sie bei jeder Verbindung Nyon/iPhone wieder zurückgesetzt. Dies ist unserer Technikabteilung bekannt und wird voraussichtlich mit dem kommenden Update behoben.

Als Alternative können Sie die Heimat- und Arbeitsadresse als gespeicherten Ort über das Portal anlegen, nach erfolgter WLAN Synchronisierung werden diese Orte im Nyon als gespeicherter Ort angezeigt und können für die Navigation verwendet werden.

The iOS app currently has the technical problem that the home / work address can not be entered or changed. Even if these addresses are stored via the portal, they are reset every time you connect Nyon / iPhone. This is known to our engineering department and is expected to be fixed with the upcoming update.

As an alternative, you can create the home and work address as a saved location via the portal, after the WLAN synchronization, these locations are displayed in the Nyon as a saved location and can be used for navigation.

As I expected, this is just a bug in the iOS application. The good news is it sounds like they're working on it.

 

[GuruUno]

I found a used Bosch Nyon display on eBay from a California based seller for $100 - free shipping. He did have a bunch of them. The display arrived and appears to be in nearly new condition, no scratches or dings, with the "remove this" screen protection still adhered. There was also a German seller that had the left side thumb controller for $60 plus $18 shipping.

They arrived and I was able to snap the display on to the center handlebar mount for the Intuvia that came on my bike. With some searching I was able to find and download the correct app file for my Samsung Android phone which is not available in the USA through the play store. I then proceeded to set up a profile at the Bosch Ebike Connect site.

I replaced the Intuvia controller with the Nyon controller that has a duplicate joy stick, mounted the Nyon and got a 580 error message telling me to take it in to a dealer. Pushing beyond that screen allowed me to connect the display to my home wi-fi network. Once that was done the unit automatically updated, adding eMTB mode to the mix! Connection to my phone through the app was simple and straightforward. I downloaded the maps for my home state, set up custom screens for Riding and Fitness. I was able to purchase the custom riding modes at the play store, which registered with Bosch no problem.

For under $180, I now have a fully functional Nyon on my Cube Touring Hybrid Exc 500 with Bosch CX drive.

The Nyon is so much more than the Intuvia. It connects to a heart rate monitor, has a vast array of customizable information, built in GPS with mapping and trip planning and the Bosch Ebike Connect portal is easy to use, intuitive and very useful. The only downside is that, as a rather robust bike comuter, it takes about 15 seconds to boot up so you cannot just push a button and go when you get back to your bike. Just start it up while you are unlocking and it is all good.

The Nyon was the most useful, coolest add-on I have put on my bike.

View attachment 20252

I ultimately bit the bullet and installed this today on my Trek. Easy, great addition, love it.
Moving forward, I purchased the 2 apps for custom rides, etc., and although it explains what and how, I'm still a bit confused as to how to "pull or push" the dots to where, how or why to create a "custom" program for rides. Can anyone who has the app and created custom rides give me the elementary explanation of what to do with it? Much appreciated.

 

[Steve Porter]

Here are my custom ride modes. I spend virtually all my time (when I have assist on) on Custom 1. You create whatever you want by just grabbing the dots and dragging them.

 

[GuruUno]

OK, so thanks, with what you shared with me helped me to get a grasp on the settings and what I did was create a custom ride mode similar, as my Trek SuperCommuter has a higher output motor so your reference points were a bit different.
I can say though, it's almost like having a CVT (constant variable transmission), the silkiness and smoothness of the acceleration, etc.
I had a few years ago an electric car, and with the custom ride mode programmed it made me remember how cool that experience was.
Here is the setting I used, similar to yours.
Thanks!!

 

[Steve Porter]

Actually your SuperCommuter has the same motor as the Domane+ with the same output. But yes there is a CVT aspect to it. That said I still shift a lot between flats and significant grades, but the curve means I virtually never change the assist level—just shift gears. So it more resembles riding a regular road bike.

 

[Afren]

The Nyon does not attach to the Intuvia base unit. If you have a Purion now, you will have to purchase and install the Intuvia base as well. The cable from the base has to be passed down through the down tube to the motor housing where it is plugged in. If you decide to do that I have some helpful steps to take that will simplify that process.

Yes, please.

 

[Alaskan]

Routing the cable will require dropping the motor off the bottom of the bike in order to route the cables. Unless you are a very capable mechanic with the right tools, some of which are Bosch bike specific, it would cost less and be safer to have a Bosch and Riese & Muller shop do the work. Before you get into what needs to be done to change out the display mount, do you plan to replace your stem so that it is even possible? I assume your bike is a new one. If that is the case, I think you would be better off having the shop where you purchased the bike change out the stem and display mount. That way your warranty will not be in danger of being invalidated.

 

[Afren]

Hi Alaskan. Thank you for your reply and continued support regarding this issue.

As per your advice, I contacted my dealer asking whether a retrofit was possible.

Now, before getting to his reply, let me answer the question you've asked, namely, whether I plan to replace the stem. Yes, is the simple answer. If I decide to go ahead with changing of the display from Kiox to Nyon, I would swap the current stem with another Ergotec Swell Ahead (https://www.ergotec.de/en/products/vorbauten/sub/ahead-vorbau/produkt/swell-r-ahead-70-31-8.html).
Also, your assumption regarding the age of my bike is correct. It is the current Supercharger GX rohloff 2019.

According to the dealer, the problem is not so much about the stem swap - that is easy. It is more to do with the internal cable routing. He advises that "the motor has to be removed and replaced and the cables (which connect to the motor) lead up very narrow pathways inside the frame. The frame and its components essentially need to be completely disassembled and reassembled". Furthermore, he advises that a firmware update needs to carried out.

The issue of loss of warranty is a gray area at best and in any event, I've never allowed warranties to stop me from having the maximum enjoyment that I can possibly attain from my purchases. For example, I have unlocked the speed limit on all of my three e-bikes.

No, I am not a very competent mechanic. They are a rare commodity here in the U.K. but part of owning a bike is fiddling with it and working on it in my man cave and also my local bike shop is extremely skilful but he's not a Bosch mechanic and as such unlikely to have the tools you mentioned in your reply, so I was wondering if you could let me have the names of these tools (links w'd really be appreciated)? Furthermore, do you have anything to add specifically relating to the internal routing of the cable? I thought in one of your posts you stated that you knew a few tricks to make this job easier? Thanks.

 

[Steve Porter]

My very experienced (with Bosch systems) mechanic and I had the same problem when I first got my Trek Domane + and wanted to move my Nyon over to it from my previous Haibike Race (which had an Intuvia mount so it was not an issue). When we got into the motor and downtube the cable routing became impossible to manage. After about an hour of dissembling and still not able to get it done we decided to cut the cable and re-solder it in the "inside the frame" part (something he has had to do on a number of occasions with other bikes). As my mechanic said if there is any issue with the warranty he would be the one handling it with Bosch anyway and has successfully dealt with this in the past.

 

[Dr. Science]

I have a new R&M Delite with the Vario (Enviolo 380) hub - and the Kiox computer. Love the bike, but not the Kiox. When R&M assembled the bike they mistakenly installed a European motor, so it has to be swapped out. I'm going to have the shop install an Intuvia when the motor is swapped. I have a Nyon and its controller that I intend to install. One of the posters mentioned something about modifying the tire size in the settings. I don't understand why Bosch doesn't simply calculate the tire's circumference on the fly. It's not rocket science, especially since the Nyon has a GPS chipset. All you have to do is count some large number of revolutions (maybe 200) while storing the distance measured by the GPS. 200 revolutions on a 24" diameter tire is maybe two meters or so. In 400 meters you can get a very accurate circumference measurement. You could probably make this calculation periodically - should not be much of a power use issue. Much easier than trying to guess the circumference.
BTW I really appreciate the high quality of information shared on this site. I'm, learning a lot.

regards,

Bob

 

[Alaskan]

I have a new R&M Delite with the Vario (Enviolo 380) hub - and the Kiox computer. Love the bike, but not the Kiox. When R&M assembled the bike they mistakenly installed a European motor, so it has to be swapped out. I'm going to have the shop install an Intuvia when the motor is swapped. I have a Nyon and its controller that I intend to install. One of the posters mentioned something about modifying the tire size in the settings. I don't understand why Bosch doesn't simply calculate the tire's circumference on the fly. It's not rocket science, especially since the Nyon has a GPS chipset. All you have to do is count some large number of revolutions (maybe 200) while storing the distance measured by the GPS. 200 revolutions on a 24" diameter tire is maybe two meters or so. In 400 meters you can get a very accurate circumference measurement. You could probably make this calculation periodically - should not be much of a power use issue. Much easier than trying to guess the circumference.
BTW I really appreciate the high quality of information shared on this site. I'm, learning a lot.

regards,

Bob

Attached is a bike tire circumference chart

 

[Dr. Science]

Alaskan//

Thanks - now all I have to do is get the Nyon mounted....

Bob

 

[Dr. Science]

Alaskan, Earlier today I was able to download the iPhone app from the UK Apple App Store.
If anyone here is interested I followed the instructions on this link:

How to change the App Store to UK on iPhone & iPad: Get correct prices - Macworld UK

It worked perfectly, and when I was finished installing the app switched the phone back to it's regular settings.

Thank you again for your help. Now just waiting for the Nyon and controller (from Germany) to arrive.
I'll post my experience here when finished (keeping my fingers crossed!)

Hello Tallpaul - I have a question on the process you used for the in app purchases. I read the article you suggested. The question I have is about accessing the UK App store and paying for the purchases. Did you go through a European VPN or just go directly to the UK App store using your changed account information? Also, someone mentioned that a US credit card would not work there. That makes no sense to me because I've used my US credit card all over Europe with no problems at all. Did you use your US credited card for the purchases?

Thanks,

Bob

 

[lerxst]

Your US credit card does indeed work all over Europe except when a merchant intentionally decides to block it. This is what Apple has done, to enforce their geo-restrictions.

 

[tallpaul]

Hello Tallpaul - I have a question on the process you used for the in app purchases. I read the article you suggested. The question I have is about accessing the UK App store and paying for the purchases. Did you go through a European VPN or just go directly to the UK App store using your changed account information? Also, someone mentioned that a US credit card would not work there. That makes no sense to me because I've used my US credit card all over Europe with no problems at all. Did you use your US credited card for the purchases?

Thanks,

Bob

Bob,
I went through the UK App store after I changed my Apple ID to UK.
I did not use my cc as I didn't buy the custom upgrades. At the time I was of the understanding that a US cc would not work.
But now you can download the app and also buy the custom mode upgrade directly from the US app store.

 

[Dr. Science]

Thanks. I do have one other avenue if your suggestion doesn't work - my older son lives in London, so I should be able to get him to facilitate things.

Bob