Nuvinci sourcing and installing in the Bay Area?

[scrambler]

Thanks @JayVee,
I understand your 3 points above.
1- That should be made easier with a Harmony, as it automatically downshifts when you stop
2- Point taken if that is a sensitive issue.
3- This is really more a range ratio issue, versus sprocket / chain ring issue versus motor power issue.
The NuVinci has a 380% range ratio, other IGH are between 409% (alfine 11) and 306% (alfine/nexus 8), so it is in the upper range. This means that if steep hills are an issue with the power available, an alfine 11 will offer a small advantage, and an alfine 8 would make it even worse. The only solution when the range is too small is to change the sprocket / chain ring to privilege hills versus high speed cadence, or get a more powerful motor .

But my question is really more about the pros and cons of the CVT versus an IGH in terms of Shifting comfort.
The CVT (NuVinci) gives you a continuous gear ratio which has some benefit. But it requires a twisting action that (from what you reported) can be more strenuous than the push button of an IGH.
So my question for you, was really directed to that specific aspect, considering the manual shifter you have right now, and imagining the electronic shifter of the Harmony.

Thanks again for all your feedback and time.

 

[scrambler]

I think you should try to demo both systems, if possible.

Definitely, although it is proving difficult to find a bike store with a Harmony equipped bike in the Bay Area
So far the only ones I found use the H|sync, which is not quite the same. I would rather have the Harmony shifter that offers both Auto and manual.

 

[scrambler]

I saw this Flyer bike, it is very similar to the Evelo Galaxy, and it does have a front suspension fork which is a plus.
Unfortunately they do not have any dealers here in the US of A

 

[fredi]

You should contact Evelo, they have an Ambassador program and may be able to hook you up with someone near you that has one.

 

[scrambler]

I will if I cant find an independent solution, but I don't want to waste people time until I am 100% ready to move on this.

 

[Hong]

Does anyone know of a bike shop in the San Francisco Bay Area that can source and install the NuVinci system on an electric bike?

Adding the NuVinci to a bike with regular gearing will be difficult (you have to tension the chain). Adding a Gates Carbon Belt Drive would be nearly impossible.

Luckily we've already got both on our Koben S. Feel free to email me when you'd like to try one.

Cheers,
Hong

 

[scrambler]

@Hong,
Thank you for reminding me of your bikes, I had Karmic on my list at one point, and it fell through , not sure why (may be because v1 was not quite there).

Looking at your site, The Karmic S v2 is definitely close to what I am looking for.

I will send you a direct email about the things I am missing, in case you are open to custom configuration, or have more plans for a v3.

 

[fredi]

I don’t have a way to show grade but attached is a screen grab of my track recorded with the Navionics Hike & Bike App. On this leg I traveled a total distance of 1.7 miles in seven minutes. My average speed was 13.9 mph with a max speed of 24.8 mph. This expanded graph shows the point where I slowed to my minimal speed and the elevation on the “Steep Hill”. This is the half way point I mentioned in my post at 7:32pm on Friday. I rode this steep hill several times over the weekend, a lot more fun on this bike, and believe that my problem was overreacting and taking the Harmony “full blue” when all I really needed to do was just turn it up a little.

 

[scrambler]

The blue setting is your desired pedaling cadence, so I would definitely not use super low or super high, as it could cause extreme gearing behavior that could be counter productive (actually mentioned in the manual).

I would start in the middle and make small changes in either desired direction based on the desired pedaling speed.

You should also experiment in Manual Mode (orange curve) and see how it feels to shift gear ratio manually (like a regular IGH) using that.

From the NuVinci specs, the Manual NuVinci controller C8 has a 3/4 turn range, but the Harmony controller H8 only has a 1/2 turn range and is electronic. So manual shifting on Harmony H8 controller should be a lot easier than on the manual C8 controller.

 

[fredi]

I've been playing with all the settings and have found that automatic in the lowest setting feels most natural to me, I think it allows the torque sensors in the motor to work better. I've also learned that when approaching a big hill to dial up just a little (not all the way)

 

[Sonoboy]

I had a lightbulb moment on how to get the loaner bike I have (Bosch Performance + N380) started from a standstill. The bike maker (Flyer) is well known for selling bikes to elderly people here in Switzerland, and I simply could not believe that grandmas were standing up on the pedals to get this thing started. I also could not believe that they were twisting the gear shifter to the tune of 220 degrees. I was about to call Flyer’s headquarters to enquire about this when the obvious answer hit me: the Bosch Performance drive must be configured for local Swiss laws. These allow a limited throttle up to 19km/h. So I downloaded the Flyer manual and, sure enough, if you hit the Bosch 'Walk Mode’ button it will provide assistance up to 18km/h. And because the load on the Nuvinci is lighter you can twist the gear shifter with ease to get the bike going. After that, the twists that are remaining are much less dramatic. So the way the bike is configured totally makes sense. Particularly when you consider that it will be used by elderly folks that are less 'hyper'.

Holy Cow! Almost 12 miles per hour using "walk assist"? That's run assist for some of us. I had no idea the Bosch drive had this capability. It does give them another arrow in their quiver to offer the infirm and disabled.

 

[PhilRW]

I've been looking for bikes with similar specs. It looks like Riese & Müller have one called the Culture, but I don't know if it's available in the States. Looks pretty slick, though. Full suspension, integrated frame lock, H|Sync with N380. Must be pretty expensive.

 

[scrambler]

There are many Riese & Mueller resellers in the US, but they do not have the models with the Harmony System (H8|Hsync).

I recently emailed Riese & Mueller to ask if they were planning on selling bikes with the NuVinci Harmony system (H8 or Hsync), and their answer was:
"The Nuvinci Harmony or the H-Sync is not planned to sell in the US at the moment."

No real explanation why...

You should email them and ask the same question ( [email protected] ) , may be if enough people ask for it, they will change their mind

 

[PhilRW]

That's too bad. I was able to test ride a Felt Verza E 10 with the H|Sync system and it was a lot of fun. The local dealers seem to be having a problem with some of the display/head units not working right. There's a 48cm I want to test out but it's been many weeks waiting for the replacement part and every time I call they say they'll have the part in "in a couple days."

I think I'll test ride a Wallerang this weekend, it uses the Shimano STEPS automatic shifting with an Alfine 8-speed.

 

[scrambler]

Personally I think I would prefer a Harmony hub interface with the H8 controller rather than the H|sync. The H8 gives you a quick way to use the NuVinci either in Manual mode (still electronic shifting) or automatic cadence mode.
It seems like it would gives more/easier flexibility than the fully integrated H|sync system.
But I do not have experience with both, so this is just a theoretical preference

Keep us posted on your test ride experiences.

FYI: Evelo has a NuVinci with Harmony automated system and a Gates Carbon belt called the Galaxy, check them out too.
They have two models TT and ST depending if you need a step through or not
http://www.evelo.com/electric-bicycles/galaxy-st/

 

[PhilRW]

We stumbled on the H|Sync "manual mode" when testing the Verza. Press and hold the "i" button when setting the cadence and it changes to a simulated gearing system. I didn't see how high it went. Granted, it's not the same as the H8 controller, but at least you get to select a manual "virtual gear," as it were.

 

[scrambler]

It is definitely better than nothing, but not as easy to change while riding, and not the full manual control.
That said having a simulated number of gear steps has the advantage of allowing you to push buttons rather than twist the throttle, so it could be interesting.
Do you know the following:

• How many gear steps does it simulate across the 380 range?
• How do you change virtual gears in that mode? do you have to navigate the control panel, or do you have +- button on the handle bar?
• How easy is it to switch to manual mode, can you do it while riding?

 

[PhilRW]

Hrm, I don't know about the first one, but you use the + and - buttons on the handle bar just like when setting cadence. I'm pretty sure you could do it while riding, but the next time I test ride one I'll test it out for sure and see how easy it is to toggle between modes and to switch virtual gears.

 

[scrambler]

Sounds good thanks

 

[PhilRW]

I ended up buying a Tempo Carmel, I posted a few words on it.