Bafang “GVT” (internal gearing)

[Chazmo]

Hi folks,

I’m wondering if anyone has used Bafang’s internally geared hub (IGH) products? These apparently shift based on wheel-spin rates and are not controlled by the rider, i.e., there’s no gear shifter. I’m curious about the riding experience of using an e-Bike without a gearset/derailleur… Bafang calls this “Gear Variable Transmission,” as described here: https://bafang-e.com/uploaded/news/202405130108276816.pdf

If this has already been discussed, I apologize. Please point me in the right direction...

Currently, there’s a rear hub motor that includes a 2-speed GVT (a.k.a. “H720”). And there’s a 5-speed(!) rear hub (“G500A”) which is for mid-drive applications.

Frankly, a 5 speed sounds really cool and I could see something like that being sufficient for a fairly natural pedaling experience and it sounds really exciting (even though I’m wary of automatic shifting). I think this 5 speed is fairly new and I doubt anyone has built a bike around it yet. But, the two-speed transmission has been around a while (I think). Has anyone used it? I’m finding it difficult to imagine how a two-speed would give as good an experience as my 9-speed cassette/derailleur gear system does.

 

[Marquezdl]

Actually, there is a page on the Bafang website for the 2 versions of the Bafang Automatic Gear Hub

Home

Bafang description

bafang-e.com

2 versions
The RG A310 (3 speed)
The RG A510 (5 speed)
They are apparently aiming the 3 speed variant at city-commuter-recreational ebikes
and the 5 speed at maybe commercial uses.
the 3 speed is listed as 1.7Kg.
the 5 speed is listed at 3.7 kg. Thats a pretty hefty load for a non-commercial ebike

the 3 speed is extremely interesting to me, it could be retrofitted to a nice steel frame I have. This seems to negate some of the advantages that mid-drive units have over standard hub type motors.
I too am anxious to find out how well they work in the real world.

 

[Chargeride]

Im confused, which is the actual motor gears and the pedalling gears, if any or not.

 

[Marquezdl]

I'm pretty sure (but not positive) that the geared hub MOTOR is only available as a 2-speed.

The 3-speed and 5-speed are just geared hubs without the motor.

I think BAFANG should build a 5-speed geared hub Motor.

I don't care if it weighs 3.7 kg.
My ebike already weighs over 80 pounds, what's another few more pounds.

You, my friend are totally correct! I on the other hand leapt before I lookt! The 3 and 5 speed hubs are simply auto-shifting IGH hubs…no motors.
the 2 speed you quoted is an integrated motor and 2 speed auto shifting transmission in the rear hub. as a city biker, that hub is extremely interesting to me. I will be anxiously awaiting the first reviews of this system on a real bicycle being ridden in the real world. This integrated motor/transmission is available in at least 3 flavors according to Bafang’s website: H720, H710, H700. They have diffferent weights, power and torque outputs.

 

[Marquezdl]

The idea of an IGH, which I have quite a lot of experience riding, having owned and ridden both a Rolhoff and a Shimano Nexus 8 is, being combined with a modestly powerful motor in the rear hub is something I have long desired.
I am not really a fan of mid-drive ebikes. I have owned 2 very nice specialized ebikes, both mid drives, both excellent for what they are, albeit quite pricey. However I sort of “moved on” from derailleurs and freewheels/cassettes in the early 90’s when I built my first set of bicycle wheels using a Phil Wood flip flop hub with a single speed freewheel and a fixed cog. After that I decided that I wanted to try IGH bicycles. So starting in the early 2000’s I got a custom steel frame with a Rolhoff hub. It is designed for light touring and randonneuring. It’s excellent for those purposes and I put well over 10K miles on that Rolhoff and never even had to change the chain. I just kept it clean and lubed and adjusted the tension a couple times. Then I got a 2nd steel frame with a Shimano Nexus 8 for around town…again a clear winner for me. Both of these steel frame IGH bikes have rim brakes, and that is the only reason I haven’t set one up as an ebike with a motor in the front wheel.
This Bafang 2 speed motor/IGH sounds like a very good option to upgrade my 8 speed internal hub to a 2 speed IGH/motor for riding around town!

 

[BlackHand]

ADO Air 30: The 1st Integrated Auto 3-Speed E-Bike

3 Speed Integrated AutoShift Motor | Anti-Theft GPS | Portable Battery | Carbon Belt | Torque Sensor | Check out 'ADO Air 30: The 1st Integrated Auto 3-Speed E-Bike' on Indiegogo.

www.indiegogo.com

 

[Marquezdl]

Ai am hoping someone will do a ‘kit‘ version so that nice bicycle frames can be converted to ebikes. especially if the 3 speed transmission is used.

 

[Marquezdl]

Cold setting the dropouts on my steel Davidson shouldn’t be a problem. Getting disc mounts added to the frame might be a bit more work, but the real problem is stripping off the powdercoat to allow brazing on disc mounts fr and rr.
Of course ALL that is contingent upon Bafang coming out with a kit for updating old bicycle frames to modern urban ebikes!
Yep, I agree, a Petition is in order!

 

[Chazmo]

The idea of an IGH, which I have quite a lot of experience riding, having owned and ridden both a Rolhoff and a Shimano Nexus 8 is, being combined with a modestly powerful motor in the rear hub is something I have long desired.
I am not really a fan of mid-drive ebikes. I have owned 2 very nice specialized ebikes, both mid drives, both excellent for what they are, albeit quite pricey. However I sort of “moved on” from derailleurs and freewheels/cassettes in the early 90’s when I built my first set of bicycle wheels using a Phil Wood flip flop hub with a single speed freewheel and a fixed cog. After that I decided that I wanted to try IGH bicycles. So starting in the early 2000’s I got a custom steel frame with a Rolhoff hub. It is designed for light touring and randonneuring. It’s excellent for those purposes and I put well over 10K miles on that Rolhoff and never even had to change the chain. I just kept it clean and lubed and adjusted the tension a couple times. Then I got a 2nd steel frame with a Shimano Nexus 8 for around town…again a clear winner for me. Both of these steel frame IGH bikes have rim brakes, and that is the only reason I haven’t set one up as an ebike with a motor in the front wheel.
This Bafang 2 speed motor/IGH sounds like a very good option to upgrade my 8 speed internal hub to a 2 speed IGH/motor for riding around town!

Hi Marquez… I'd like to know if anyone who is used to riding with a rear gear derailled shifter (mine’s 9-speed) attached to, say, a non-shifting G062 motor, can enjoy riding with the 2-speed IGH Bafang H720 motor. There’s no cassette with the H720, it’s just a two-speed (automatic). I’m guessing that would not make me a happy trail rider, but might be nice for urban riders who don’t pedal much. Dunno! A rear hub motor with their 5-speed version of this “GVT” system — which they introduced only as a non-powered hub for (G500A) for a mid-drive system — might be just the ticket though.

Anyway, best wishes!

@PCeBiker would you please stop posting all these peripheral screen shots with your posts? Thanks in advance.

 

[Marquezdl]

Hi Marquez… I'd like to know if anyone who is used to riding with a rear gear derailled shifter (mine’s 9-speed) attached to, say, a non-shifting G062 motor, can enjoy riding with the 2-speed IGH Bafang H720 motor. There’s no cassette with the H720, it’s just a two-speed (automatic). I’m guessing that would not make me a happy trail rider, but might be nice for urban riders who don’t pedal much. Dunno! A rear hub motor with their 5-speed version of this “GVT” system — which they introduced only as a non-powered hub for (G500A) for a mid-drive system — might be just the ticket though.

Anyway, best wishes!

@PCeBiker would you please stop posting all these peripheral screen shots with your posts? Thanks in advance

 

[Ebikebuilderyt]

Im confused, which is the actual motor gears and the pedalling gears, if any or not.

the gears in the IGH are used instead of a derailleur, So you can have a straight chain line, usually a belt drive. they are meant for mid drives. Especially for people who break their derailleurs often

 

[Marquezdl]

Also for people like me, who hate fussing with derailleurs and cables, and changing chains frequently. My experience with 2 IGH systems is that the chains last forever and the maintenence requirements are minimal! And as an additional bonus, IGH systems work WAY better in wet, snowy, or muddy conditions!

 

[Marquezdl]

Lastly, on an existing bicycle, converting to a belt could be fairly pricey. Unless you have spent time riding a bicycle with a dead straight chainline and no “derailling” of the chain to shift gers, you won’t believe how durable and long wearing a good bicycle chain is!

 

[Chargeride]

The first step to improving deraillearsss would be to spell it sensibly.
It's far too French
La catastroffe Avec derraliuur Monsieur?
Derailer, there fixed it for you.

 

[Chazmo]

Lastly, on an existing bicycle, converting to a belt could be fairly pricey. Unless you have spent time riding a bicycle with a dead straight chainline and no “derailling” of the chain to shift gers, you won’t believe how durable and long wearing a good bicycle chain is!

What would be the advantage of a belt over a chain? [ As usual, forgive the ignorance, and point me in the right direction if this has already been discussed somewhere. ]

 

[Marquezdl]

The first step to improving deraillearsss would be to spell it sensibly.
It's far too French
La catastroffe Avec derraliuur Monsieur?
Derailer, there fixed it for you.

Well, the derailleur was patented in France in 1895 and France was the real cradle of professional bicycling. So there is a strong heritage there. Besides, it adds an air of sophistication to conversations!

 

[Chargeride]

Yes, that's why it annoys me