No throttle and no way home today... :(

[Gionnirocket]

Ask Tom and Gionni that question.


The point is you're not riding. You're building e-bikes, which leaves no time for riding.

That has to be one of the most ignorant statements that has ever been posted...
@Rome, make that a double end'r as he has company.
But at least you've settled one other long battled argument... *it does float.

 

[tomjasz]

I won’t fault or attack anyone that uses a throttle responsibility and where it is allowed,

So anyone you deem irresponsible will suffer the attack of a single-mided fellow with the empathy and understanding of goofy Mikes. Nice. I shouldn't have peeked... WTF!

This is the odd group in the eBike world from my view. They continue to take the perceived high ground entitled because they had ridden conventional bikes.

Admittedly often times against the grain.

However, it's a new day, time to move on and see that those class 3 speeds and properly set up bikes are being used as commuters and jumping in traffic in many cases. Enabling even the office worker to throttle the way to work free of sweat and vastly reducing a carbon footprint. More efficient ways to commute that should be devoid of old-school views on how a bicycle should be used.

Remember when mountain bikes were going to destroy the trails and ruin the backcountry experience for everyone else? Instead, they became a force in promoting and growing the bicycle scene, new shops, and even HS teams with communities building new and better trails.

So it is with eBikes. Stop the evangelical purist horsepucky. It's a new day, a new market, and the future.

 

[Djangodog]

So anyone you deem irresponsible will suffer the attack of a single-mided fellow with the empathy and understanding of goofy Mikes. Nice. I shouldn't have peeked... WTF!

This is the odd group in the eBike world from my view. They continue to take the perceived high ground entitled because they had ridden conventional bikes.

Admittedly often times against the grain.

However, it's a new day, time to move on and see that those class 3 speeds and properly set up bikes are being used as commuters and jumping in traffic in many cases. Enabling even the office worker to throttle the way to work free of sweat and vastly reducing a carbon footprint. More efficient ways to commute that should be devoid of old-school views on how a bicycle should be used.

Remember when mountain bikes were going to destroy the trails and ruin the backcountry experience for everyone else? Instead, they became a force in promoting and growing the bicycle scene, new shops, and even HS teams with communities building new and better trails.

So it is with eBikes. Stop the evangelical purist horsepucky. It's a new day, a new market, and the future.

What is your point? If the laws or regulations say that a throttle is prohibited, then it is prohibited. You can hold your breath, stomp your feet or have a hissy fit, but that only makes you look selfish and entitled. It doesn’t change the rules. E-bikes came from conventional bikes. They enjoy the infrastructure and technology developed for conventional bikes. Maybe some on here would do well to remember that. Those that paved the way do not need to move over and give a self entitled brat their own way because they don’t agree with the rules.

If people like you keep abusing the system, you might find that e-bikes aren’t the future at all.

 

[DaveinMtAiry]

Not sure where all this hostility is coming from and not really interested in the background. I agree if the rules of a specific trail forbid them then we should not ride there. But other than that I have no idea why anyone would have an issue with someone who prefers a throttle. I prefer to start up by using the throttle to get me going, I really don't care what Mikes thinks of that.

Another use I could see for a throttle is if I had a hard fall, sometimes a throttle may be the only way to get back or at least make it easier than pedaling with a banged up leg.

 

[Djangodog]

Not sure where all this hostility is coming from and not really interested in the background. I agree if the rules of a specific trail forbid them then we should not ride there. But other than that I have no idea why anyone would have an issue with someone who prefers a throttle.

Another use I could see for a throttle is if I had a hard fall, sometimes a throttle may be the only way to get back or at least make it easier than pedaling with a banged up leg.

The hostility stems from people thinking that if they don’t like a law or rule that they don’t have to abide by it. Anyone that thinks that that affects all of us is labeled a purist or an enemy of the throttle user.

My argument has been that you should be able to use a class 2 bike where allowed and not where it is not and that bikes should not be built or modified to a spec that violates the laws. I don’t know when that logic became radical.

Some think that I am wrong for arguing that anyone breaking the law and acting irresponsibly puts the freedom of all at risk. I also get a bit tired of the “clown suit” and “elitist” comments. It’s disrespectful and in most cases wrong, and ironically, a bit elitist. I stand by my opinion. E-bikes owe their very existence to conventional cyclists, not the other way around.

 

[PedalUma]

I will very occasionally kit up (clown suit) but it needs to be the right occasion just like a tux, wetsuit, or raincoat. You wouldn't dress in a Formula 1 driver's costume to get coffee in a car. Yesterday I saw a guy kitted out and clipped in while ridding a Brompton at 7 Kph. The Bompton it a tinny folding bike, so yes it was very like a clown act. Besides it is fun to laugh at the vinegar and water set that ride a 15 Mph bike while dressed for the Tour. I just finished the early 80's road bike restoration and conversion to a comfortable town bike. It is called a Hummingbird. It is fast and more fun than a throttle bike.

 

[MacCrackin]

Agree on the 100 mile check up although I never do them on my bikes and never had a problem
And have never had a pedal back out on me like this

I write these posts knowing these guys will chime in and imply throttles are dumb etc but the posts are not for them, they are for newbies to get another perspective if they do a search for throttles
I personally could care less what any of these guys think, have owned a lot of bikes and ridden a decent amount of miles and am confident that having a throttle available to use is always better than not - definitely is for me

Spot On - Now I'm totally confused - Obviously I know what a throttle is [ thumb or twist grip]
Am I to assume by this posting, some bikes don't have them now? When it was assumed they all did.
[For newbies to get another perspective if they do a search for throttles]
Have only test ridden a couple so far.
Cheers

 

[6zfshdb]

Spot On - Now I'm totally confused - Obviously I know what a throttle is [ thumb or twist grip]
Am I to assume by this posting, some bikes don't have them now? When it was assumed they all did.
[For newbies to get another perspective if they do a search for throttles]
Have only test ridden a couple so far.
Cheers

Many, but not all, ebike manufacturers adhere to the class system. Class 1 is pedal assist only with a max speed of 20 mph. Class 2 is pedal assist + throttle with a max speed of 20 mph. Class 3 is pedal assist up to 28 MPH. It should be noted however that some class 3 bikes do have throttles.

To answer your question, no, not all ebikes have throttles.

BTW, welcome to the forum! You've come to the right place to ask questions!

 

[Djangodog]

Biktrix Monte Capro. Bike I call Ridiculous.
I learned that the front brake cut off sensor cut off the motor while only using throttle. Rear brake cut off sensor cut off motor while pedaling.
I called the dealer and asked if it's a normal function on my bike and they said no. The brake sensor should cut off the motor whenever it is applied front or rear. Safety feature is what they said. I will need to ask Biktrix next if it is an issue.

What you dealer said is in line with what I have read as well and seems to make good sense. Good luck

 

[MacCrackin]

Many, but not all, ebike manufacturers adhere to the class system. Class 1 is pedal assist only with a max speed of 20 mph. Class 2 is pedal assist + throttle with a max speed of 20 mph. Class 3 is pedal assist up to 28 MPH. It should be noted however that some class 3 bikes do have throttles.

To answer your question, no, not all ebikes have throttles.

BTW, welcome to the forum! You've come to the right place to ask questions!

Thanks Captain,, I was sure I hit the Mother load of E/Bike Mayhem EXTRAordinaire.
Truly can't wait to getting at it building one. Or maybe a used one for now.
So if they don't have throttle -
is this where power level set [1-5] simply takes over sensing pedal input?
So much tech to take in all at once. And where I thought Mid drive was lame,, looks
like a cool option now. But the motors look a bit smaller,, or deceiving maybe.
And wheel size, 20" vs 26" - step thru series probably 70/30 fav'd.
Difficult hill is priority. Dual motor,, at some point, good chance in the end.
Now to sort out files made in past days to related tech types. Torture...
Oh Yea,, came across electronic shifting,, I'll bet its very slick.
Cheers

 

[6zfshdb]

Thanks Captain,, I was sure I hit the Mother load of E/Bike Mayhem EXTRAordinaire.
Truly can't wait to getting at it building one. Or maybe a used one for now.
So if they don't have throttle -
is this where power level set [1-5] simply takes over sensing pedal input?
So much tech to take in all at once. And where I thought Mid drive was lame,, looks
like a cool option now. But the motors look a bit smaller,, or deceiving maybe.
And wheel size, 20" vs 26" - step thru series probably 70/30 fav'd.
Difficult hill is priority. Dual motor,, at some point, good chance in the end.
Now to sort out files made in past days to related tech types. Torture...
Oh Yea,, came across electronic shifting,, I'll bet its very slick.
Cheers

The subject of throttles is a hot button topic here for a variety of reasons. Please excuse the vulgarity and personal attack posts in this thread. The forum is mostly civil with a lot of good folks providing useful information.

Yes, PAS 1 thru 5 simply adjusts the amount of motor assist based on rider input. It can be either torque or cadence depending on the type of sensor used by the bike. Torque sensors read the amount of pressure being exerted on the pedals where as cadence measures the speed the crank is turned.

Mid drives can have smaller motors because they use mechanical advantage gained by the gear shift mechanism. Rear hub motors are constant torque and don't have this advantage. Higher wattage hub motors are often used to compensate.

In general, mid drives are better on hills but this often depends on the bike. You've got the right idea by test riding. Every bike is different and the more you test, the better the choice you'll make when you do buy.

Electronic shifting is definitely worth looking into. If you find a bike you like that doesn't have it, the feature can be added to almost any bike. Many conversion kits are available such as these from Archer:

Archer Components Electronic Shifting for Every Bike

Electronic shifting systems for every bike. 100% compatible with any rear derailleur. Any number of gears. SRAM, Shimano, TRP, Campy, Box. We work great with everyone! This is the only electronic shifter you need for your bike.

archercomponents.com

I installed them on all three of my bikes. If you're at all handy with tools, the conversion takes about an hour with no special tools required.

By all means, play around with the forum search function. You're sure to have more questions. We were all new to the sport at some point so don't hesitate to ask!

 

[MacCrackin]

The subject of throttles is a hot button topic here for a variety of reasons. Please excuse the vulgarity and personal attack posts in this thread. The forum is mostly civil with a lot of good folks providing useful information.

Yes, PAS 1 thru 5 simply adjusts the amount of motor assist based on rider input. It can be either torque or cadence depending on the type of sensor used by the bike. Torque sensors read the amount of pressure being exerted on the pedals where as cadence measures the speed the crank is turned.

Mid drives can have smaller motors because they use mechanical advantage gained by the gear shift mechanism. Rear hub motors are constant torque and don't have this advantage. Higher wattage hub motors are often used to compensate.

In general, mid drives are better on hills but this often depends on the bike. You've got the right idea by test riding. Every bike is different and the more you test, the better the choice you'll make when you do buy.

Electronic shifting is definitely worth looking into. If you find a bike you like that doesn't have it, the feature can be added to almost any bike. Many conversion kits are available such as these from Archer:

Archer Components Electronic Shifting for Every Bike

Electronic shifting systems for every bike. 100% compatible with any rear derailleur. Any number of gears. SRAM, Shimano, TRP, Campy, Box. We work great with everyone! This is the only electronic shifter you need for your bike.

archercomponents.com

I installed them on all three of my bikes. If you're at all handy with tools, the conversion takes about an hour with no special tools required.

By all means, play around with the forum search function. You're sure to have more questions. We were all new to the sport at some point so don't hesitate to ask!

Thank You Hugely @!
Great Tips and concept of options.
Cheers

On the topic of - [Please excuse the vulgarity and personal attack posts in this thread. The forum is mostly civil with a lot of good folks providing useful information.]
No Worries - I'm pretty used to it, and some will express it better than others, and I don't mind,, as long as it's
97/03 True,,, Lol

Eventually - Truth Wins​

 

[Gionnirocket]

The subject of throttles is a hot button topic here for a variety of reasons. Please excuse the vulgarity and personal attack posts in this thread. The forum is mostly civil with a lot of good folks providing useful information.

Yes, PAS 1 thru 5 simply adjusts the amount of motor assist based on rider input. It can be either torque or cadence depending on the type of sensor used by the bike. Torque sensors read the amount of pressure being exerted on the pedals where as cadence measures the speed the crank is turned.

Mid drives can have smaller motors because they use mechanical advantage gained by the gear shift mechanism. Rear hub motors are constant torque and don't have this advantage. Higher wattage hub motors are often used to compensate.

In general, mid drives are better on hills but this often depends on the bike. You've got the right idea by test riding. Every bike is different and the more you test, the better the choice you'll make when you do buy.

Electronic shifting is definitely worth looking into. If you find a bike you like that doesn't have it, the feature can be added to almost any bike. Many conversion kits are available such as these from Archer:

Archer Components Electronic Shifting for Every Bike

Electronic shifting systems for every bike. 100% compatible with any rear derailleur. Any number of gears. SRAM, Shimano, TRP, Campy, Box. We work great with everyone! This is the only electronic shifter you need for your bike.

archercomponents.com

I installed them on all three of my bikes. If you're at all handy with tools, the conversion takes about an hour with no special tools required.

By all means, play around with the forum search function. You're sure to have more questions. We were all new to the sport at some point so don't hesitate to ask!

The Archer looks slick... How does it handle the elements?

I find my main reason for the development of poor shifting is when the last bit of cable and housing adds friction from multiple sloppy rides adding up and a little micro_grit gets in there. To avoid this I switch to the smallest gear, flex the derailleur and disengage and slide up the last bit of housing and clean the cable at every chain lube interval.

 

[TrevorB]

Throttles are great idea for some riders with health issues the problem is idiots with no health issues that like to use them as motorbikes on cycleways. Unfortunately there are too many of these idiots which is why we have regulations.

 

[6zfshdb]

The Archer looks slick... How does it handle the elements?

I find my main reason for the development of poor shifting is when the last bit of cable and housing adds friction from multiple sloppy rides adding up and a little micro_grit gets in there. To avoid this I switch to the smallest gear, flex the derailleur and disengage and slide up the last bit of housing and clean the cable at every chain lube interval.

The D1-X is weatherproof but not immersion proof. I mounted mine on the seat stay rather than the chain stay to get more ground clearance.

I've had no weather related problems at all.

 

[Gionnirocket]

The D1-X is weatherproof but not immersion proof. I mounted mine on the seat stay rather than the chain stay to get more ground clearance.

I've had no weather related problems at all.

I was thinking the same... also because my current cable runs down the seat stay.
That said checking the price, $450 ouch. For some reason I thought this would be less than $250

 

[mschwett]

….

Mid drives can have smaller motors because they use mechanical advantage gained by the gear shift mechanism. Rear hub motors are constant torque and don't have this advantage. Higher wattage hub motors are often used to compensate.

this is oft-stated, but actually isn’t exactly true. there is no mechanical advantage in most gears on a bike - the rear cog is much SMALLER than the front cog except on extreme cases. it’s actually mechanical disadvantage. all mid-drive motors have internal gearing which takes this into account, with the reduction ratio (as much as 20:1, i believe!) taking into account the torque of the motor and the expected range of gearing of the bike.

 

[mschwett]

Throttles are great idea for some riders with health issues the problem is idiots with no health issues that like to use them as motorbikes on cycleways. Unfortunately there are too many of these idiots which is why we have regulations.

well, to be fair … anyone using them inappropriately on a path or bike lane is an idiot, whether they have health issues or not

this is a common refrain in some circles - “i’m not able to ride a bike like a “normal” person so i need/deserve a motor which propels me far faster than the vast majority of said “normal” riders can go.”

and i say this as someone with an implanted defibrillator, a closet full of heart meds, and multiple open heart surgery scars.

 

[Gionnirocket]

well, to be fair … anyone using them inappropriately on a path or bike lane is an idiot, whether they have health issues or not

this is a common refrain in some circles - “i’m not able to ride a bike like a “normal” person so i need/deserve a motor which propels me far faster than the vast majority of said “normal” riders can go.”

and i say this as someone with an implanted defibrillator, a closet full of heart meds, and multiple open heart surgery scars.

I think one's disability is a non issue. The ones abusing speed by throttle or not be the youngińs

 

[MacCrackin]

The Archer looks slick... How does it handle the elements?

I find my main reason for the development of poor shifting is when the last bit of cable and housing adds friction from multiple sloppy rides adding up and a little micro_grit gets in there. To avoid this I switch to the smallest gear, flex the derailleur and disengage and slide up the last bit of housing and clean the cable at every chain lube interval.

After many Years as tech at Motorcycle shops - this clever cable lube tool has been the standard since
early 70's. I'd be surprised if bike shops didn't have version to fit the smaller cable housings.
A good Teflon lube with spray tube attached enters rubber grommet and then gets clamped down
on cable & housing where lube is forced all the way to other end. Some Teflon grades for chain
I've used on my ProMotocross, and cables never needed lube after twenty years.
Second view shows how it's used. Unfortunately, It's not shown on bike sites.