New Vado SL 4.0 - harsh ride!

[hankj]

First let me say hi, Hank, lifelong avid cyclist. 7500mi/year analog for decades. I've spent a lot of time on a lot of bikes.

Secondly, the Vado SL 4.0, for what it is, at the current USD 2.5k price ...AFAIK can't be touched. I am minorly in love with the thing. It really perfectly fits my active family's needs. I looked at the Orbea competitor too, but so expensive in comparison for an essentially competitive product. It's the right bike for us for sure!

Third, I'm a bike nerd in the sense of wrenching and upgrading and optimizing. If I rent a bike in Europe it can be a heap and I'll happily ride it for weeks. But at home all bikes are obsessively dialed to optimal for their rider and purpose.

All that in mind (and understand I find little to no fault elsewhere), as it comes stock the Turbo Vado SL 4.0 is a harsh, jarring ride, the likes of which I haven't ridden since the brutal stiff alu trend of the late 1980's/early 1990's. Its ride reminds me of a Cannondale Beast of the East with pumped up tires. I don't like riding off curbs on the Vado, much less gravel tracks.

I'm sure this doesn't have to be the way this bike is. My most recent cheap frame (most of my bike are expensive) -- an $900 euro full bike, alu frame and fork Diamant 136 -- rides LIGHTYEARS smooth. The Diamant 136 is essentially a Trek, and probably made from the 1120 alu tubeset. It's not as smooth as my Salsa Cutthroat (which is insanely smooth riding in rough) but is similar to my ti hardtail with a rigid carbon fork. It is wildly impress how nicely tuned and smooth the dirt cheap all alu Diamant 136 is.

Man is the Vado Sl 4.0 the opposite! Particularly in the front end. The fork is a vibration amplification and transmission device, the wheels, tires and thick tubes all really hard and stiff, the stem and bar chunky and profoundly rigid.

I am going to fix it.

First step is upgraded wheelset and larger volume, plusher tubeless tires.

Change out seat to something that absorbs vibration and shock better (Terry Butterfly ti probably - my wife will ride this bike a lot).

Then damp carbon handlebar (I love the FSA carbon wrapped over thin aluminum bar - it's incredibly damp, more than any all-carbon bar I've ridden).

And then assess.

Add carbon seatpost if back end still jittery on gravel.

Add thinner-walled stem if front end still not optimal.

Add a quiet carbon fork if need be (I suspect a lot of the jangling is a poorly tuned OEM alu fork).

Last step look at my back balance and cry a little (I kid - most parts in "use me" bin already

SO anyway, if you have any experience/advice/tips to help smooth my journey to smooth, glad to hear it.

AND again, stoked on the Vado SL - ticks all the right boxes, particularly the weight - just outstandingly light for the price out of the box, and I'll sweat another 4lbs off it no problem

 

[BEC111]

When I got my SL 4 three years ago, I was too new to cycling (I was 72 at the time, but hadn’t ridden in over 50 years) to appreciate the potential harshness. I quickly began to understand the need for some sort of shock absorption.

The recommendation of the members of this site, especially Stefan Mikes, led me to get a suspension seat post and stem. The difference with these changes has been profound. I’m using a Redshift stem and a no-name post. The stem is perfect, I’m going to have to get a better post, I think. My butt is sending distinct messages on that.

Enjoy this terrific bike!

 

[hankj]

When I got my SL 4 three years ago, I was too new to cycling (I was 72 at the time, but hadn’t ridden in over 50 years) to appreciate the potential harshness. I quickly began to understand the need for some sort of shock absorption.

The recommendation of the members of this site, especially Stefan Mikes, led me to get a suspension seat post and stem. The difference with these changes has been profound. I’m using a Redshift stem and a no-name post. The stem is perfect, I’m going to have to get a better post, I think. My butt is sending distinct messages on that.

Enjoy this terrific bike!

Thanks for the feedback. I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks this bike is trying to rattle the fillings out!

Minor fail on the 1st item on the fix of agenda. 50mm G-One speeds, which are a supple comfortable tire and are a spot-on exact 50mm, fit rear but not front with acceptable clearance. On front there is basically an eighth of an inch all around the tire at the crown of the fork. If you got badly out of true or if the wheel flexes it's going to rub.

In the back not so bad. Quarter inch right at the top of the tire, more around the sides. Not ideal for mud or whatever, but it's not a mud bike.

I'm going to try a Schwlabe G1 all arounder 45mm on front. It should fit better if the tiny little short knobs aren't a problem. It should immediately help with the front end ride, but it's not a long-term solution.

Definitely going to get a different fork on this bike, and then be able to run 50mm/2.0" in back, up to a 2.1 or 2.2 in front.

A few general observations as I start to work at upgrading this bike. It seems very likely to me that when specialized does a generational upgrade to the Vado SL, there's going to be more clearance for wider tires. This frame was designed in the late 2010s, basically right before most bike companies went away from the tight frame aesthetic and started prioritizing more tire clearance. Next generation they're going to make wider.

 

[mfgrep]

When I got my SL 4 three years ago, I was too new to cycling (I was 72 at the time, but hadn’t ridden in over 50 years) to appreciate the potential harshness. I quickly began to understand the need for some sort of shock absorption.

The recommendation of the members of this site, especially Stefan Mikes, led me to get a suspension seat post and stem. The difference with these changes has been profound. I’m using a Redshift stem and a no-name post. The stem is perfect, I’m going to have to get a better post, I think. My butt is sending distinct messages on that.

Enjoy this terrific bike!

How did you handle the stock brake light which is mounted beneath the seat and (apparently) routed through the seatpost? I too am considering a shock absorbing seatpost but I would prefer to keep the light as is if possible.

 

[BEC111]

How did you handle the stock brake light which is mounted beneath the seat and (apparently) routed through the seatpost? I too am considering a shock absorbing seatpost but I would prefer to keep the light as is if possible.

Since my bike is an EQ, the rear light cabling was not an issue. It’s my understanding that folks drill a hole in the seat tube but I don’t understand how that would work with most suspension posts.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

@hankj:
Been there, done that:

• Redshift Shock Stop stem
• Redshift Shock Stop Utility Mount and a GoPro handlebar mount for the Lezyne headlight
• Redshift Shock Stop seat-post
• 38 or 42 mm Specialized Pathfinder Pro 2Bliss. I recommend the tubeless setup although I ride them tubed

I have done all this on my Vado SL 4.0 EQ and ride the machine of my dreams (I have just participated in a 160 mile gravel race in difficult terrain on that e-bike).

The issue with your non-EQ is the tail-light. You might buy a Kinekt 2.1 27.2 mm suspension seatpost and drill a hole in the post to route the tail-light cable. It is described in these Forums.

\\
My Vado SL exactly 2 years post-purchase with all mods.

 

[hankj]

160 mi off-road is a very long day! Good for you.

I like the Pathfinder Pro tires - really as about as good as it gets for nearly slick gravel tires.

Lately I've been riding Challenge Strada Biancas on my Salsa Cutthroat. They are ridiculously fast rolling, and also quite tough through the tread and ride very damp and smooth. Cornering traction is a little less than average for the class, and they are awful as far as wet braking goes. But I swear they feel faster than Continental GP 5000 road tires. The 50mm in the Strada Bianca is small for a 50, really like a 48mm if that was a tire size. It would be a safe pick for a big volume rear tire on the Vado SL for drier and smoother conditions.

Thanks for the tips

 

[mschwett]

cool project. before you go too far, test ride an s-works creo and see if you feel the ride also sucks. once you put carbon rims, better bars, a better fork, seat post, etc on the vado you‘ll have something similar except without the carbon frame. if the ride on the sw creo still rattles your brain, you know you’ll never get there on the Vado.

my creo with terra CLX rims, 42mm Rene Herse tubeless tires, alpinist post, alpinist cockpit, future shock, and romin mirror seat has what I’d consider an incredibly smooth ride for a road/gravel hybrid bike. the Vados I’ve ridden are indeed extremely buzzy and harsh by comparison, which I always attributed to the huge aluminum tubes. you simply can’t make something like that compliant.

 

[hankj]

Agree for sure that the big overbuilt aluminum down tube is going to need to be worked around. The battery is pretty snug in there, and that creates a lot of rigidity on top of it being a big old tube.

I think the fork is going to be the biggest horse ride contributor though. I don't have a particularly good argument for this, it just rides like a harsh fork.

Another thing that I think doesn't help are the short chainstays. I drank the short chainstay Kool-Aid maybe 10 years ago. But since then nearly every bike that I get on that rides well, smooth and stable, has long chain stays in a longer wheelbase. It seems to me like longer. Wheelbase gives more space between the axles for the whole bike to flex and absorb shock. The shorter the wheelbase gets the more pingy bikes feel to me.

The S Works Creo is a beautiful bike, but it is miles outside of my price range! I could ride it just for informational purposes, but then I would know what I was missing and feel bad about my bike

 

[Stefan Mikes]

160 mi off-road is a very long day! Good for you.

It was actually 26 h 47 min start to finish including an overnight stay (you need to recharge all the Range Extenders sometime!) 12 h 47 min of pedalling net. All I wanted to say my mods (including SQlab Innerbarends) ensured a comfortable ride in rough terrain involving sand, mud, rutted dirt roads, pothole gravel etc. Pathfinder Pro 2Bliss are fast rolling on the pavement but grippy offroad because the tread becomes progressively more aggressive towards the outside. These tyres are very supple, which is important.

The reason I went for Pathfinders was reducing the rolling resistance for the pavement. When I tried more aggressive tyres, they stole the speed. (SL motor is not a powerhouse, and my legs cannot be any stronger than they are now!) YMMV!

 

[rochrunner]

+1 on the Redshift products. My SL 5.0 rides like a dream now (came with the FutureShock front fork so just the ShockStop seat post needed). New wheels and tubeless tires on the horizon.

 

[hankj]

More supple tubeless tires with larger volume have helped massively. I'm running tubeless Schwalbe G-One Allrounder in 45mm width front and rear right now. The difference is stark. Even though the 45mm's G-Ones are only nominally a little bit bigger than OEM tires, they have way more air volume, probably 60% more air. Makes a big difference.

I'm using a different wheel on the front as well. Token aluminum rimmed MTB wheel. It is a compliant wheel with thin spokes. Not built for rigidity but rather light weight. It helps some. I tried one of my carbon mtb wheels on front but it was a lot stiffer than the aluminum.

Added a compliant carbon bar, carbon seatpost, and long distance touring saddle after tires. All three made a difference, but not nearly the difference tires made.

So getting better! I have my eye on a couple of more compliant forks that I might swap in as well.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

More supple tubeless tires with larger volume have helped massively. I'm running tubeless Schwalbe G-One Allrounder in 45mm width front and rear right now. The difference is stark. Even though the 45mm's G-Ones are only nominally a little bit bigger than OEM tires, they have way more air volume, probably 60% more air. Makes a big difference.

I'm using a different wheel on the front as well. Token aluminum rimmed MTB wheel. It is a compliant wheel with thin spokes. Not built for rigidity but rather light weight. It helps some. I tried one of my carbon mtb wheels on front but it was a lot stiffer than the aluminum.

Added a compliant carbon bar, carbon seatpost, and long distance touring saddle after tires. All three made a difference, but not nearly the difference tires made.

So getting better! I have my eye on a couple of more compliant forks that I might swap in as well.

Hank: The owners of Vado SL EQ cannot put more than 38 mm tyres on their e-bikes, so that's why I recommend Pathfinder Pro 2Bliss (and the tubeless setup for those who can ride all year long on a single set of tyres). Also, carbon components are not good for heavier riders!

 

[hankj]

That's because of the fenders I'm assuming?

It would be awesome if the Vado had clearance for fatter tires. Literally there is no downside to more tire space - You can still run skinny if you want. The bike is not only already boost spacing, but it has a wide q factor because of the motor. It's begging for more frame and fork clearance!

I'd love to see clearance for 2.2s front and rear, 50mm with fenders. Maybe when they do a major model overhaul ....

 

[gromike]

Can you put a suspension front fork on it? Ebikes have stiffer frames, weigh more, and travel at higher speeds so good suspension is critical. I put a mid-drive on an old Trek 7.2, no suspension at all. I was traveling about 20 mph and ran into a bumpy section of road and almost had the handlebars ripped out of my hands. I put a decent suspension front fork on it (and a suspension seatpost) and that solved that problem.

 

[hankj]

In theory yes, could fit a suspension fork. The issue is geometry. Vado SL OEM fork is 390mm axle to crown. A mountain suspension fork would push the front end too high. You could fit a gravel suspension fork, adding 40-50mm A-C height for 40-60mm travel. The Vado geo could handle this rise, might even improve. But you'd need a 12x100mm 700c wheel, would not gain tire clearance, and the bike would get heavier (Vado calling card is "not heavy").

But it would definitely work, and would be a good choice for someone who liked to ride rougher terrain a lot.

 

[mfgrep]

Two weeks and 200 miles on my new Vado 4.0. I am more impressed with it today than I was two weeks ago. I don't deny that the frame is rigid but I am growing more accustomed to the ride. I did a largely urban ride over the weekend on pot holed, uneven, and littered roads. I appreciate the rigidity to a degree as it lends itself to being most nimble and maneuverable....without all of the bits (suspension) that might make it more comfortable but heavier too. I am in no rush to do so....but would think that a suspension seat post would go a long way for those that find it too rigid.

The bike is a fitness rider's dream.

 

[Rás Cnoic]

Two weeks and 200 miles on my new Vado 4.0. I am more impressed with it today than I was two weeks ago. I don't deny that the frame is rigid but I am growing more accustomed to the ride. I did a largely urban ride over the weekend on pot holed, uneven, and littered roads. I appreciate the rigidity to a degree as it lends itself to being most nimble and maneuverable....without all of the bits (suspension) that might make it more comfortable but heavier too. I am in no rush to do so....but would think that a suspension seat post would go a long way for those that find it too rigid.

The bike is a fitness rider's dream.

definitely explore tyres first as the suspension from decent supple tyres can make an enormous difference.

 

[hankj]

definitely explore tyres first as the suspension from decent supple tyres can make an enormous difference.

+1 - larger volume more supple tires, set up tubeless or with better than stock tubes, makes a MAJOR difference.

 

[Marquezdl]

Might sound goofy but there is a company making laminated bamboo handlebars in New Zealand

Bamboo Handlebars | Passchier

www.passchier.co.nz

I had a pair on my specialized cirrus and they are amazingly comfortable. At first the flex is a bit disconcerting, but they really smooth things out
Now if I can just figure out how to use them on my Turbo Vado. I am pretty sure they would work fine on the SL