New SL 1.2 motor revealed

[Nubnub]

Quieter and more efficiency is good but I don't want more power. I like my SL at 35

But for an EMTB like the Levo SL - more power/torque is good. Off road - uneven surface, rock, ruts, 15-20% grades with poison oak on either side of the trail - more power gives more control. ]

It will be interesting to see if they will offer the 1.2 motor on Class 3 bikes tho. At Class 3 speeds, wind resistance will be a much bigger factor than uphill mtb - so I'm not sure that an extra 80 W will make much difference. I do hope they do eventually add to updated Class 3 bikes as the extra torque will help getting to those class 3 speeds and increase the fun factor. Ofc, one could always reduce the assist levels thru mission control.

One of the videos compared the original Levo SL with the 1.2 Sl in turbo mode going uphill. The 1.2 was noticeably quieter but still, to my ears, annoying. I wonder if the noise level in ECO is what is reduced to substantiate the "whisper quiet" marketing fluff.

 

[mschwett]

kind of a disappointing update - it’s not narrower, smaller, or lighter? more power is nice, but not where i would have gone with the SL.

quieter is good!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

more power is nice, but not where i would have gone with the SL.

Specialized has been challenged with the moves of the competition... They had to respond to the "the SL 1.1 becomes old, and it is so noisy!" Come on, I was never distracted with the SL 1.1 noise. A gravel cycling friend borrowed my Vado SL for a week and recently made this comment: "The motor in your Vado was so quiet!"

 

[Rás Cnoic]

It’s hills Stefan. That’s where the SL motor really whines. And mountain biking you’ll be on technical steep gradients and there the high pitched whine could be really annoying. It’s worse off road because there is no traffic noise to drown out the motor whine. What I can see from the Rob Rides video is that the new motor still has significant noise but it doesn’t sound as high pitched. Has a lower note, more pleasing to the ear. That’ll make a difference. It’s the high pitched almost shrill noise that really grates. It feels like the motor is under extreme strain even though it’s not. I suspect as you say Stefan that Speccy were forced to react to advances made by TQ & Fazua etc and rather then design a new motor from ground up, for now, and for speed of manufacture they based this 1.2 motor on the original so unfortunately no difference in q factor, weight or size.

With a second generation Vado SL the extra power on the steepest climbs would be handy but not a deal breaker. But for the Levo it’ll make a big difference I think. I suppose I was hoping for a near silent smaller & lighter motor to bring overall bike weight and motor profile down.

Anyway with my replacement motor on my Vado SL, fingers crossed I won’t be looking to trade in for another couple of years!

And what price drop will the stocks of new but old Levo SL generation 1 go down to?! Worth keeping an eye on.

 

[PDoz]

It’s hills Stefan. That’s where the SL motor really whines. And mountain biking you’ll be on technical steep gradients and there the high pitched whine could be really annoying. It’s worse off road because there is no traffic noise to drown out the motor whine. What I can see from the Rob Rides video is that the new motor still has significant noise but it doesn’t sound as high pitched. Has a lower note, more pleasing to the ear. That’ll make a difference. It’s the high pitched almost shrill noise that really grates. It feels like the motor is under extreme strain even though it’s not. I suspect as you say Stefan that Speccy were forced to react to advances made by TQ & Fazua etc and rather then design a new motor from ground up, for now, and for speed of manufacture they based this 1.2 motor on the original so unfortunately no difference in q factor, weight or size.

With a second generation Vado SL the extra power on the steepest climbs would be handy but not a deal breaker. But for the Levo it’ll make a big difference I think. I suppose I was hoping for a near silent smaller & lighter motor to bring overall bike weight and motor profile down.

Anyway with my replacement motor on my Vado SL, fingers crossed I won’t be looking to trade in for another couple of years!

And what price drop will the stocks of new but old Levo SL generation 1 go down to?! Worth keeping an eye on.

Nub nub posted the video comparing noise from old lsl, new lsl, trek exe and the pivot. That video implies it's as quiet as the trek, but I'll wait to hear one on the trail myself .

I'm trying to decide if I bite the bullet and get a whole bike, or wait to find out how much it costs to retro fit the motor. That'll involve new cranks ( dub interface rather than i30) , probably a new mastermind control unit - so a new bike makes sense financially. I like the chassis changes they have made - plusher rear end, adjustable chainstays, steeper seat tube....but I'm still in love with my gen 1.

 

[PDoz]

kind of a disappointing update - it’s not narrower, smaller, or lighter? more power is nice, but not where i would have gone with the SL.

quieter is good!

They fixed all the things that aren't perfect with the gen 1 , and arguably went further with the adjustable geometry. Lighter comes a5 a cost, I'm glad they went burlier

 

[Dazmanturbo]

The Specialized video show that have changed the mounting splines to SRAM Dub standard

 

[PDoz]

The Specialized video show that have changed the mounting splines to SRAM Dub standard

Sorry, I should have listed that amongst the improvements rather than just being a barrier to retro fitting the motor ( see 2 posts up) . The i30 really limits your choices with cranks - moving to dub will be a huge improvement.

It'll the interesting to find out of the dub spline is as soft as the old i30 - my second ( and best) motor needed replacing because I used the original cranks rather than waiting for fresh ones to arrive. The cranks were not visibly worn, but there must have been some wear because the spline was damaged within a couple of rides. That motor was super quiet and felt more powerful than the first and subsequent motor, so I was NOT happy!

 

[Dazmanturbo]

EMBN did a deep dive with Specialized Turbo team in Switzerland. They confirm that the motor mount points are identical to 1.1. And at the end, is that a new Creo in the back?

 

[PDoz]

And people have already started seeing if motors fit

Mahle SL 1.1 to SL 1.2 - What's Possible and What's Different ?

The SL 1.2 is out in the wild with the '23 Levo SL. From what we know so far, mountings and connections are all the same. It works with the existing battery and range extender (shorter 145mm instead of 160mm cable). The motor is slightly larger due to the two piece aluminium honeycomb casing...

www.emtbforums.com

Now we just need to know if we can buy them

 

[Avg_Joe]

If/when this motor comes to the Vado SL, I'm buying one. Same power as my Vado 3.0, 40% weight reduction, livelier bike, range extenders vs 2nd battery. Take my damn money!

 

[BioWheel]

If/when this motor comes to the Vado SL, I'm buying one. Same power as my Vado 3.0, 40% weight reduction, livelier bike, range extenders vs 2nd battery. Take my damn money!

Good thread. I have to say I'm amazed they can make a better motor than my 1.1 for SL4. It's got almost 6k miles on it, never given me an issue and requires zero maintenance. I'd be interested to look inside one after this many miles to see if there is any wear. Would also like to see Specialized Mean Time Between Failure number for the 1.1.

 

[PDoz]

Good thread. I have to say I'm amazed they can make a better motor than my 1.1 for SL4. It's got almost 6k miles on it, never given me an issue and requires zero maintenance. I'd be interested to look inside one after this many miles to see if there is any wear. Would also like to see Specialized Mean Time Between Failure number for the 1.1.

It's interesting they've used the 1.2 in the levo first , I suspect they have learnt from their brose disasters and are moving on when a motor isn't perfect for purpose.

Failures for 1.1 seem a lot more common amongst the mtb community than the road riders, and most of the failures seem related to the spline / drive side bearings. That area looks to have been beefed up in the 1.2 with what looks like an extra bearing on the drive side and the new ( dub ) spline.

I have a personal theory the 1.1 struggled with the side forces mtb riders put through their cranks - landing crossed up / pushing through the cranks in corners etc.

The other possibility is it's pedal strikes, but the lower torque motors should be less susceptible to pedal strike damage than most, and I don't think I had any significant strikes on any of my motors. Plenty of clips, but none of the big slams like the ones that make a giant motor sound noisy.....

Either way , there are a LOT of levo 1.1 riders who had warranty replaced motors within 2 years, and I'm hop8ng specialized see the logic of using the 1.2 with future replacements

 

[Dazmanturbo]

I had a motor replaced under warranty on about 2000 miles. I had the issue of the bike cutting out with range extender plugged in, so Specialized replaced loom and motor as precaution. There was nothing wrong with that motor and was a good strong 1.1.

With a new Creo, it will have to bring something significant the game over the just the motor. Got my Creo completely spot on at 12kg, but would appreciate to touch more torque, so would look at motor upgrade if that was available down the line

 

[David C]

I had my SL 4.0 motor replaced at the 2 year warranty mark with just under 11,000 miles, riding on turbo mode the past 1.5 years. Finished up at around 13,500 miles after 32 months. Switched to a Sirrrus X5.0 two weeks ago.

 

[BioWheel]

I had my SL 4.0 motor replaced at the 2 year warranty mark with just under 11,000 miles, riding on turbo mode the past 1.5 years. Finished up at around 13,500 miles after 32 months. Switched to a Sirrrus X5.0 two weeks ago.

Given you road in turbo and the amount of miles you must have charged a lot. What was your main battery condition at 13,500?

 

[David C]

Had around 590 charge cycles near the end. I was still getting about 21 miles per charge on turbo with about 5% battery remaining(a few were near 24 miles when weather was in mid 70s).

 

[BioWheel]

Had around 590 charge cycles near the end. I was still getting about 21 miles per charge on turbo with about 5% battery remaining(a few were near 24 miles when weather was in mid 70s).

How many watts did you usually contribute to the ride if you don't mind saying. Oh - and you didn't have 80% charge firmware during this time - right? Nice mileage btw - really incredible to me.

 

[David C]

The last firmwear update I had was around the 2 year mark(9.22).Not sure how to calculate watts contributed.

 

[Wookie]

So a guy who manages a specialized lbs told me that the new Vado SL with the 1.2 motor is in production but he also said the model wouldn't be released until they sell down the stock of the old model. No new information there really, except that apparently the new bikes are in the process of being manufactured and readied for the market. That is, if he even knows what he's talking about. The shop is part of the relatively large chain of shops and he was the store manager so perhaps that's the extent of the knowledge "in the wild" about the current state today (June) with regard to the "rest" of the SL line apart from the Levo which is already out.