New Frey Owners

[brake034]

The M600 is not a major seller for some reason, I like it as it is more agile than the AM or the EX.

I personally do not mind the exposed battery of the HT, it allows for a bigger battery and it mounts easier.
The battery of the M600 is bottom mounted and I am thinking of a velcro strap just in case it drops out........

 

[byunbee]

The M600 is an amazing bike only if EX or CC didn't exist. (Powered by Ultra!)

It might be because M600 settings are not configurable. If it had the same configurability as Ultra, they might do better. There's also the the price/power ratio since they cost similar to Ultra powered models Frey makes, not that eMTBs need even the power of M600.

 

[byunbee]

What do you mean by configurable? You mean the power?

Does M600 use the same motor as Luna X1?

X2 Enduro Ebike

Carbon fiber mid drive beauty.

lunacycle.com

Because Luna is offering the X1 in the optional 2000W configuration.

I meant user configurable via USB cable and the Bafang software. As far as I know M600 does offer this option like the Ultra.

 

[byunbee]

They use a different controller..."Ludicrous" controller.

 

[brake034]

The M600 needs a Bafang "box" to program the controller, Frey has such a box and I think Luna does too.
The M600 was designed for the EU market which requires that the controller cannot be programmed for more power by the end user.

 

[byunbee]

The M600 needs a Bafang "box" to program the controller, Frey has such a box and I think Luna does too.
The M600 was designed for the EU market which requires that the controller cannot be programmed for more power by the end user.

What he said.... But for the 2000W, they do use a different controller.

"Up to 2000 watts of power with soon available ludicrous controller "

 

[brake034]

but the user can swap the controller though

Ssssst, don't let them know that

 

[brake034]

What he said.... But for the 2000W, they do use a different controller.

"Up to 2000 watts of power with soon available ludicrous controller "

Yes, I think it's pretty similar to the controller that Innotrace has developed for the Ultra, although both motors use a different bus system.

 

[TomD]

Why isn't the Frey M600 a bigger seller?

1) Frey didn't listen to users during development of the M600 1.0. Users asked for an integrated battery. Frey went with external battery. It was ugly.

2) Frey M600 2.0 has an ingegrated battery but is overpriced. Why would anyone pay $3K + sipping for a bike with outdated Chinese FS frame with long chainstay? Makes more sense in North America to buy a Luna X1, superior in almost every way for the same money shipped. The X1 is also a far better looking bike, absolutely stunning in matte carbon. I personally don't care for the styling of the Frey M600 2.0.

3) Bafang laid an egg with the M600. The torque sensing is unrefined like the Ultra, I don't recall it being as bad, but it isn't on par with euro spec. No app. You can apparently pay $100+ for a tool to change speed and wheel size, but other than that can't program it. Comical. The M600 could have been a game changer, and could still be if Innotrace steps up (again) with an aftermarket controller for the M600 to MBGA (make Bafang great again) like they did with the Ultra.

FWIW, I could care less about the ludicrous controller on the Luna X1. Other than giving North America users attractive pricing for a M600 build with Dengu's carbon frame Luna missed the mark. AFAIK, all they did was shunt the controller to double the current and add some potting, not what this motor needed and nowhere close to what Innotrace can do. It needed more refined torque sensing and user programmability.

 

[brake034]

Innotrace is not a company with a strong marketing plan; their website is a dead end, their Facebook page has only a logo.
I know that Frey has a motor with their controller, but I am not sure if they have done any testing with it sofar?

One of the Innotrace team members told me they wanted to work on the M600 motor and asked for a couple of frames.

 

[TomD]

Good to hear in regards to the M600. I've been following your posts on ES in regards to the innotrace / exess conroller, and found it very informative and helpful, thanks. To clarify, both Exess and Watt Wagons are using their controller. According to @pushkar it's a game changer vs. the stock Bafang controller in terms of refinement, efficiency, and power (the latter being the least important to me). My recollection was that Frey was "too busy" to look into it. A shame because it could have remedied my biggest disappointments so far with my Frey CC. The torque sensing is substandard and range is underwhelming. I would have gladly paid to upgrade, even a significant premium, money in Frey's pocket that will go to Watt Wagons.

 

[brake034]

My recollection was that Frey was "too busy" to look into it.

Well, to be honest, the motor arrived at Frey shortly before the COVID drama and once production was restarted Frey had to get the group buy out with significant logistic /supply issues. The Frey team is not very large so I can understand that they prioritize.

 

[Mark Tunis]

Good to hear in regards to the M600. I've been following your posts on ES in regards to the innotrace / exess conroller, and found it very informative and helpful, thanks. To clarify, both Exess and Watt Wagons are using their controller. According to @pushkar it's a game changer vs. the stock Bafang controller in terms of refinement, efficiency, and power (the latter being the least important to me). My recollection was that Frey was "too busy" to look into it. A shame because it could have remedied my biggest disappointments so far with my Frey CC. The torque sensing is substandard and range is underwhelming. I would have gladly paid to upgrade, even a significant premium, money in Frey's pocket that will go to Watt Wagons.

I'm with you brother, having trouble opening software package Ivy sent me, file not supported message, downloaded first package no prob, the second package Frey says is the torque package with instructions will not open?? to be continued

One of my batteries, if tilted up or down, i can feel the whole pack shift up and down a couple inches inside the case ???
to be continued
P.S
Talked to watt, fat bike, triangle monster bag battery, all the bells, A mouse click away

Best
Mark

 

[TMH]

Best of luck Mark in getting a bike which works for you! Really too bad about the performance of your Frey, especially after such a long wait to even get one of those.

So are you transitioning instead to a Watt Wagons bike? Don't think that anyone as been disappointed with one of those. Quite the design, engineering and fabrication masterpieces.

 

[Dave Thefonziscool]

Here is my initial report on the FREY CC Bike:
Positives;
-this thing is huge, im 5' 9 1/2" and the "crossbar" is at my crotch!
- incredible power and speed
- great at off road and single track. I describe ANY bike with 27.5" wheels or bigger to be less agile than a 26" tire bike. That said, Ive bombed this thing down technical single track and it performed like a champ, easily passing hard tail riders, tho no air yet.....
- high quality perfect set up. Brakes & shifting are perfect
-a small plastic piece had a bit of shipping damage, ivy put a new part and related screws in the mail immediately- that is perfectly fair and i am happy
- MY RANGE IS LONGER THAN OTHERS ON THIS THREAD. Im getting about 60 + miles per full charge, using Eco 1 & 2. Remember that new batteries are weird and must be fully charged and depleted several times to get up to full capacity!!
- the charger is small and very light so it can easily be brought along for the ride
- integrated lighting is hooked to the brake levers!
- all specced parts are there. SR seat, wellgo pedal, promax stem post and bar, quanta hubs etc
- incredible head turner. Folks in my neighborhood are blown away, especially my neighbor who bought three 250 watt hub drive bikes-the look on his face was hilarious. Im getting "woooo sexy" quite a bit. The folks at work (well those who still come in once and a while like myself) are pissed off that they have paid huuuge money for Trek, Specialized and Tern e bikes, and mine is twice the speed and higher quality to boot.

Negatives:
-this thing is huge, im 5' 9 1/2" and the "crossbar" is at my crotch! Not really a step through.
- 27.5 tires are weird if you are used to 26, its a different experience
- the charger is very small, plastic and lightweight, so its portable but is the quality there?
- no shift sensor, as my first e bike i assumed a shift sensor was included on all high end e bikes. Not this one. And it is necessary if you want your cassettes to last. I've already taught myself to tap the brake lever just enough to kill the motor (but not enough to move the caliper) when shifting
- the water bottle holder actually is in the way. When getting on or off the bike it is nearly impossible to not rub against it. If i ever dump this thing, my junk is going to smash into that darn bottle cage.
- the negatives are minor imho. Yea a shift sensor is necessary on all ultra equipped bikes but other than that one main caveat i would absolutely buy this bike again and again.
This bike is 100% to claim. It is absolutely just what Frey says it is, a unique TRUE hybrid commuter/ off road e bike.
Definitely recommended!!!!

 

[TMH]

Great to hear a positive report on the CC - It seemed to have so much potential!

I wonder whether the differences in performance and range are due to inconsistencies in the manufacture of components, or just early teething pains which might get worked out. Would be great for initial buyers if they are software issues and not something more difficult to adjust/change out.

 

[Mark Tunis]

Here is my initial report on the FREY CC Bike:
Positives;
-this thing is huge, im 5' 9 1/2" and the "crossbar" is at my crotch!
- incredible power and speed
- great at off road and single track. I describe ANY bike with 27.5" wheels or bigger to be less agile than a 26" tire bike. That said, Ive bombed this thing down technical single track and it performed like a champ, easily passing hard tail riders, tho no air yet.....
- high quality perfect set up. Brakes & shifting are perfect
-a small plastic piece had a bit of shipping damage, ivy put a new part and related screws in the mail immediately- that is perfectly fair and i am happy
- MY RANGE IS LONGER THAN OTHERS ON THIS THREAD. Im getting about 60 + miles per full charge, using Eco 1 & 2. Remember that new batteries are weird and must be fully charged and depleted several times to get up to full capacity!!
- the charger is small and very light so it can easily be brought along for the ride
- integrated lighting is hooked to the brake levers!
- all specced parts are there. SR seat, wellgo pedal, promax stem post and bar, quanta hubs etc
- incredible head turner. Folks in my neighborhood are blown away, especially my neighbor who bought three 250 watt hub drive bikes-the look on his face was hilarious. Im getting "woooo sexy" quite a bit. The folks at work (well those who still come in once and a while like myself) are pissed off that they have paid huuuge money for Trek, Specialized and Tern e bikes, and mine is twice the speed and higher quality to boot.

Negatives:
-this thing is huge, im 5' 9 1/2" and the "crossbar" is at my crotch! Not really a step through.
- 27.5 tires are weird if you are used to 26, its a different experience
- the charger is very small, plastic and lightweight, so its portable but is the quality there?
- no shift sensor, as my first e bike i assumed a shift sensor was included on all high end e bikes. Not this one. And it is necessary if you want your cassettes to last. I've already taught myself to tap the brake lever just enough to kill the motor (but not enough to move the caliper) when shifting
- the water bottle holder actually is in the way. When getting on or off the bike it is nearly impossible to not rub against it. If i ever dump this thing, my junk is going to smash into that darn bottle cage.
- the negatives are minor imho. Yea a shift sensor is necessary on all ultra equipped bikes but other than that one main caveat i would absolutely buy this bike again and again.
This bike is 100% to claim. It is absolutely just what Frey says it is, a unique TRUE hybrid commuter/ off road e bike.
Definitely recommended!!!!

Yes my battery’s have improved, working on other issues, some minor shipping damage when I received the bike from the extra battery packed inside the box floating around took out my tail light (Frey sent me another) I look now and see wear and tear on the chain and cassette , only about 80 miles on the bike,
BIKE was stolen day 2 , thief put 4 miles on it, sheriffs Recovered , so who knows , take my comments with a grain on salt

 

[Dave Thefonziscool]

Great to hear a positive report on the CC - It seemed to have so much potential!

I wonder whether the differences in performance and range are due to inconsistencies in the manufacture of components, or just early teething pains which might get worked out. Would be great for initial buyers if they are software issues and not something more difficult to adjust/change out.

You are greatly overthinking this my friend, there is no negative feedback on Frey bicycles, I understand there is one person on this particular thread that seems to have an issue with batteries. No offense to that individual but I cannot find any other negativity towards Frey bikes known to humankind that exists in our universe, unless you have?

 

[byunbee]

You are greatly overthinking this my friend, there is no negative feedback on Frey bicycles, I understand there is one person on this particular thread that seems to have an issue with batteries. No offense to that individual but I cannot find any other negativity towards Frey bikes known to humankind that exists in our universe, unless you have?

A bit of an over exaggeration there.. You make it sound like Frey is He-Man the master of the universe.

 

[Dave Thefonziscool]

A bit of an over exaggeration there.. You make it sound like Frey is He-Man the master of the universe.

Lol you've got a point, but im still awaiting that link.....?