New Frey Owners

[Paul Dugrenier]

did you get your EX? How do you like it...i just made a thread for EX owners...i just ordered one...thanks Jeff

No I haven’t received my bikes yet. It was another FedEx shipment I had coming that I mistook for the bikes. They are still in customs in LA. I spoke to the shipping agent last Friday and he believes they should clear by tomorrow or Thursday. Hopefully the FedEx tracking number will show the bikes in transit after that. Apparently the tracking number Frey provides will show the label was created until the shipment clears customs. I’m not sure how long it will take FedEx to ship the bikes from LA to upstate New York but I’m anticipating a full week.
i don‘t know if Frey used the same shipping agent for your bike but if it’s Sine Trading they will know when your bike has arrived in country. There was a phone number for Sine Trading that was on the basic tracking site that doesn’t show on the tracking for my FedEx account. If I’d seen it sooner I would have called them to find out the whereabouts of my bikes.
FedEx customer service actually suggested my bikes probably never left China when I called them early last week.
My bikes were shipped on April 17th and they arrived in LA on May 15th. I would think that it will be at least 45 days for your bike to arrive if your experience is anything like mine. I spoke with Wayne at Sine Trading to get my information. Their number is (412) 281-6699. Good luck with a speedy delivery and I’ll post when my bikes arrive.

 

[JBANKY]

Sounds great! thanks!

 

[stobin723]

No I haven’t received my bikes yet. It was another FedEx shipment I had coming that I mistook for the bikes. They are still in customs in LA. I spoke to the shipping agent last Friday and he believes they should clear by tomorrow or Thursday. Hopefully the FedEx tracking number will show the bikes in transit after that. Apparently the tracking number Frey provides will show the label was created until the shipment clears customs. I’m not sure how long it will take FedEx to ship the bikes from LA to upstate New York but I’m anticipating a full week.
i don‘t know if Frey used the same shipping agent for your bike but if it’s Sine Trading they will know when your bike has arrived in country. There was a phone number for Sine Trading that was on the basic tracking site that doesn’t show on the tracking for my FedEx account. If I’d seen it sooner I would have called them to find out the whereabouts of my bikes.
FedEx customer service actually suggested my bikes probably never left China when I called them early last week.
My bikes were shipped on April 17th and they arrived in LA on May 15th. I would think that it will be at least 45 days for your bike to arrive if your experience is anything like mine. I spoke with Wayne at Sine Trading to get my information. Their number is (412) 281-6699. Good luck with a speedy delivery and I’ll post when my bikes arrive.

Paul, thank you very much for providing this info. I just got off the phone with Wayne over at Sine Trading. What a nice guy and super helpful! They're expecting to receiver 2 containers from US Customs today which, I assume, contains many orders from this forum. He said that the items will be given to Fedex tonight or tomorrow and we should expect to see tracking information online by Thursday night and we should see the items themselves by mid next week. He also said that other shipping options are available but most are cost prohibitive. To switch from Fedex Ground to Fedex Air would likely be over $1,000. Lastly, Wayne did caution me that Fedex has had an issue where the items have gotten close to their intended destination and then delayed in the Fedex system for an additional two weeks. He said he's gotten several calls about that issue and there's nothing he can do. I'm hoping that it won't be the case for anyone here but, given that I placed my order in late January and the bike supposedly shipped in early April, I'm prepared for deal with another delay. I hope this helps answers some questions here so we don't all have to inundate Wayne over at Sine Trading with the same questions.

 

[pushkar]

There is contact between Frey and Innotrace, Innotrace uses Frey platforms to test prototypes.
I think Frey wants to do more internal tests before they make a decision to offer the Innotrace controller as an option.

I could consider mounting Innotrace controllers here in Thailand but I would need a exempt from import duties and taxes, which is possible with an ATA Carnet.
Shipping both ways on the cheap would be about 150$ and the controller plus mounting work would be less than 500$, including cleaning and grease repacking.

Hey bud. Someone alerted me to this thread. I am the owner of Watt Wagons and want to add some clarification for you, and looks like by association, Frey bikes.

1. Watt Wagons is the exclusive distributor of the controller for US and Canada markets. Frey can absolutely do what you are proposing to do for regions/ countries except for US and Canada.
2. Watt Wagons charges (starting at) $700 for the controller install (I will be putting it up as a separate SKU soon) due to the following reasons
   1. We warranty our version of the controller for 2 years.
   2. If you buy the motor with the updated controller, we also warranty the entire motor for 2 years (note the bafang warranty is voided as soon as you swap the stock controller).
   3. We offer firmware upgrades for 2 years to whoever upgrades controllers with Watt Wagons. This is included in the price for the swap. We expect firmware upgrades every 4-6 months for the forseeable future.
   4. Our version of the firmware, some settings, some higher wattage configs, ability to tweak configs etc are exclusive to Watt Wagons. Even if a third party started to offer the controller, they will not get access to these.

I wanted to highlight what consumers might be trading off (outside of the US / Canada region, or going to a third party to save $50)

1. Local support,
2. Firmware upgrades, exclusive features
3. Warranty on the controller,
4. Warranty on the motor (if purchased through us)

There are real costs we have to bear for every motor or controller we sell. We can of course offer a cheaper price and provide 0 service/ 0 warranty beyond 30 days/ 0 support and 0 upgrades if consumers are ok with it.

We take contractual commitments fairly seriously, and I want to be clear about what is being proposed by you as a representative of Frey (either explicit or implied) and what contract we have we Innotrace.

If Frey is interested in selling your motors with the updated controller to the US and Canadian markets, please reach out to me here, or email at [email protected]. We can set up a more precise, legally binding arrangement that protects us both, and allows more customers to leverage the amazing performance.

Apologies for hijacking the thread. Please feel free to DM me or reach out on the Watt Wagons forum on EBR.

 

[stobin723]

Hey bud. Someone alerted me to this thread. I am the owner of Watt Wagons and want to add some clarification for you, and looks like by association, Frey bikes.

1. Watt Wagons is the exclusive distributor of the controller for US and Canada markets. Frey can absolutely do what you are proposing to do for regions/ countries except for US and Canada.
2. Watt Wagons charges (starting at) $700 for the controller install (I will be putting it up as a separate SKU soon) due to the following reasons
   1. We warranty our version of the controller for 2 years.
   2. If you buy the motor with the updated controller, we also warranty the entire motor for 2 years (note the bafang warranty is voided as soon as you swap the stock controller).
   3. We offer firmware upgrades for 2 years to whoever upgrades controllers with Watt Wagons. This is included in the price for the swap. We expect firmware upgrades every 4-6 months for the forseeable future.
   4. Our version of the firmware, some settings, some higher wattage configs, ability to tweak configs etc are exclusive to Watt Wagons. Even if a third party started to offer the controller, they will not get access to these.

I wanted to highlight what consumers might be trading off (outside of the US / Canada region, or going to a third party to save $50)

1. Local support,
2. Firmware upgrades, exclusive features
3. Warranty on the controller,
4. Warranty on the motor (if purchased through us)

There are real costs we have to bear for every motor or controller we sell. We can of course offer a cheaper price and provide 0 service/ 0 warranty beyond 30 days/ 0 support and 0 upgrades if consumers are ok with it.

We take contractual commitments fairly seriously, and I want to be clear about what is being proposed by you as a representative of Frey (either explicit or implied) and what contract we have we Innotrace.

If Frey is interested in selling your motors with the updated controller to the US and Canadian markets, please reach out to me here, or email at [email protected]. We can set up a more precise, legally binding arrangement that protects us both, and allows more customers to leverage the amazing performance.

Apologies for hijacking the thread. Please feel free to DM me or reach out on the Watt Wagons forum on EBR.

Hi Pushkar,

You're most welcome. Thanks for providing that info! If you don't mind, can you elaborate a little more on this controller and what service Watt Wagons can provide for outside installation? For instance, I'm awaiting my HT1000. You're saying that you can install the controller on my bike? Would I have to take it to you physically? I'm in the Boston area. Lastly, why would I want to install this controller? What kind of performance increase could I expect? Can it be tuned for commuter purposes?

Sean

 

[Paul Dugrenier]

Paul, thank you very much for providing this info. I just got off the phone with Wayne over at Sine Trading. What a nice guy and super helpful! They're expecting to receiver 2 containers from US Customs today which, I assume, contains many orders from this forum. He said that the items will be given to Fedex tonight or tomorrow and we should expect to see tracking information online by Thursday night and we should see the items themselves by mid next week. He also said that other shipping options are available but most are cost prohibitive. To switch from Fedex Ground to Fedex Air would likely be over $1,000. Lastly, Wayne did caution me that Fedex has had an issue where the items have gotten close to their intended destination and then delayed in the Fedex system for an additional two weeks. He said he's gotten several calls about that issue and there's nothing he can do. I'm hoping that it won't be the case for anyone here but, given that I placed my order in late January and the bike supposedly shipped in early April, I'm prepared for deal with another delay. I hope this helps answers some questions here so we don't all have to inundate Wayne over at Sine Trading with the same questions.

I’m glad the information was helpful to you. I really wish we had UPS to deliver our bikes. If the shipper chose the standard delivery option from FedEx it has been my experience that they will deliver the bikes on the last day of the delivery window you will see when the tracking number becomes active. I’ve had packages sit for days at the FedEx warehouse 5 miles from my house. Their policy is that you have to pay more for fast service and if you don’t pay, don’t hold your breath. UPS doesn’t seem to operate that way and items seem to progress methodically through their system.
I’ll let you know when tracking goes live.

 

[stobin723]

I’m glad the information was helpful to you. I really wish we had UPS to deliver our bikes. If the shipper chose the standard delivery option from FedEx it has been my experience that they will deliver the bikes on the last day of the delivery window you will see when the tracking number becomes active. I’ve had packages sit for days at the FedEx warehouse 5 miles from my house. Their policy is that you have to pay more for fast service and if you don’t pay, don’t hold your breath. UPS doesn’t seem to operate that way and items seem to progress methodically through their system.
I’ll let you know when tracking goes live.

Wayne did mention that he would be able to switch to UPS for $100+ but he didn’t seem to think it would be worth it at this point.

 

[brake034]

Hey bud. Someone alerted me to this thread. I am the owner of Watt Wagons and want to add some clarification for you, and looks like by association, Frey bikes.

If Frey is interested in selling your motors with the updated controller to the US and Canadian markets, please reach out to me here

Hello Mr. Phatak,
Let me clarify some of your statements publicly, than if you or anyone else has further queries on the Innotrace subject please via DM.
I am associated with Frey, I help them with International Marketing as a consultant.

1) Where did you get the idea Frey would be selling "my" motors?? I never made such a statement nor is this the intention.
Please see 2) below for further reasoning.

2) Frey has had communication with Innotrace since quite some time, Innotrace uses some Frey bikes as test platform and Frey has a sample motor from them.
If Frey ever decides to work with Innotrace than they will discuss the content of such an agreement with Innotrace directly.
I am sure if Frey wants to offer Innotrace upgraded Bafang motors they would get them directly from Innotrace in China and I will not be involved at all!

3) If I decide on personal title to do anything with Innotrace, than I will discuss the content of such an agreement with Innotrace directly.
This is however very unlikely as the temporary import regulations (import duty exemption) for repair in Thailand are in place theoretically, in reality bureaucracy might be the biggest stumbling block........

4) On several occasions in forums and Facebook Groups I have mentioned your company as Innotrace distributor, I have send you an example in FB messenger today.
I am not here to damage anyone's potential business case but my effort is to enhance everyone's riding pleasure using the Bafang Ultra motor system in general and Frey specifically!

Trust this clarifies, if not please send me a DM.

 

[pushkar]

Hello Mr. Phatak,
Let me clarify some of your statements publicly, than if you or anyone else has further queries on the Innotrace subject please via DM.
I am associated with Frey, I help them with International Marketing as a consultant.

1) Where did you get the idea Frey would be selling "my" motors?? I never made such a statement nor is this the intention.
Please see 2) below for further reasoning.

2) Frey has had communication with Innotrace since quite some time, Innotrace uses some Frey bikes as test platform and Frey has a sample motor from them.
If Frey ever decides to work with Innotrace than they will discuss the content of such an agreement with Innotrace directly.
I am sure if Frey wants to offer Innotrace upgraded Bafang motors they would get them directly from Innotrace in China and I will not be involved at all!

3) If I decide on personal title to do anything with Innotrace, than I will discuss the content of such an agreement with Innotrace directly.
This is however very unlikely as the temporary import regulations (import duty exemption) for repair in Thailand are in place theoretically, in reality bureaucracy might be the biggest stumbling block........

Trust this clarifies, if not please send me a DM.

Thanks for clarifying. I appreciate the quick response. Helps to have an open / clear discussion.
Edit: just saw your DM on FB. I sincerely appreciate this gesture and thanks for clarifying (again) . I’m Glad to see that my interpretation of your post wasn’t what I thought it would be.

 

[TomD]

While I think it's great that WW stepped up to the plate to get UL certification and whatever else it took to get this controller to North America I think innotrace has done a disservice to North American customers by not allowing for reasonable competition. Frey can't offer this controller to North American customers without payola? That is sad to hear as I think it just adds yet another hurdle for making it happen. I think innotrace charges less than $500 including shipping to replace the controller but don't know if that includes warranty or not.

 

[brake034]

Frey can't offer this controller to North American customers? That is sad to hear.

I am not sure, this depends mainly IF Frey is willing to even consider offering the Innotrace controller as an upgrade to customers any time soon.

One could consider there are certain negative aspects to the sheer power this controller sends to the Bafang motor. Drive components may wear out very fast as they are not designed for the stresses this controller/motor combination is capable of. This is not my personal experience but the Swiss Frey distributor has met the Innotrace guys and rode an early prototype, he told me his opinion.

Maybe in future Innotrace will further develop and improve their controller, to a unit that is more refined than the standard Bafang controller but without the crazy output that could eat drive components. The M600/G510 doesn't need more power but it could be more refined and that might make it a more logic upgrade to offer, in my personal opinion!

I have a spare G510 motor coming my way from China, the Innotrace controllers that are stable enough to mount by a 3rd party (any other than Innotrace themselves) are a few months away. I am in contact with Innotrace to have a few come my way as soon as they are available so I can experiment with it.

 

[TomD]

The only reason I would be interested in this controller is for the refined torque sensing and power delivery and the efficiency gains as well as app support. The Ultra motor leaves a lot to be desired in those regards. I could care less about more watts personally.

 

[brake034]

The only reason I would be interested in this controller is for the refined torque sensing and power delivery and the efficiency gains as well as app support. The Ultra motor leaves a lot to be desired in those regards. I could care less about more watts personally.

And for this reason let's wait until the real production Innotrace controllers are out and about, so far it's prototyping and getting into a form of production.

Maybe it's worth investigating the Eggrider system for smoothness? That system is compatible with the G510, I had one connected on my HT and it worked fine but I haven't got into reprogramming the original settings yet as I want to do that with the spare motor.

 

[Paul Dugrenier]

Paul, thank you very much for providing this info. I just got off the phone with Wayne over at Sine Trading. What a nice guy and super helpful! They're expecting to receiver 2 containers from US Customs today which, I assume, contains many orders from this forum. He said that the items will be given to Fedex tonight or tomorrow and we should expect to see tracking information online by Thursday night and we should see the items themselves by mid next week. He also said that other shipping options are available but most are cost prohibitive. To switch from Fedex Ground to Fedex Air would likely be over $1,000. Lastly, Wayne did caution me that Fedex has had an issue where the items have gotten close to their intended destination and then delayed in the Fedex system for an additional two weeks. He said he's gotten several calls about that issue and there's nothing he can do. I'm hoping that it won't be the case for anyone here but, given that I placed my order in late January and the bike supposedly shipped in early April, I'm prepared for deal with another delay. I hope this helps answers some questions here so we don't all have to inundate Wayne over at Sine Trading with the same questions.

My FedEx tracking number just became active and says the bikes will arrive Wednesday 6/3. I hope you got a delivery date too. Good luck!

 

[BlackHand]

My FedEx tracking number just became active and says the bikes will arrive Wednesday 6/3. I hope you got a delivery date too. Good luck!

Good to hear!
A week sounds about right for cross country Ground. Both FedEx and UPS have seen delays as parts of their networks have gotten overloaded with the increase in volume and shift from bulk commercial to individual residential deliveries during the lockdown. Ground has been averaging 1-2 day delay, but has also been moving freight 7 days/week to minimize the impact of any delays.

FYI: it took UPS 12 days to get my bike to me from Crazy Lenny's in Wisconsin, which would have been a 4 day delivery. YMMV

 

[stobin723]

My FedEx tracking number just became active and says the bikes will arrive Wednesday 6/3. I hope you got a delivery date too. Good luck!

Same!

 

[JBANKY]

I just wanted to share a new Facebook page for FREY owners...Please share your rides, modifications and all your cool pictures!

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.

www.facebook.com

 

[brake034]

I just wanted to share a new Facebook page for FREY owners...Please share your rides, modifications and all your cool pictures!

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.

www.facebook.com

Thanks, I will join and share. One thing is you used the old logo, once you add me to the group I will send you the revised one.

 

[JBANKY]

Thanks, I will join and share. One thing is you used the old logo, once you add me to the group I will send you the revised one.

sounds good...thanks

 

[stobin723]

Finally got it!