Need Software Support on my 2017 BULLS Bike...Resolution Found.

[Goodair]

I'm going to have a trusted source try to do it remotely this weekend- hopefully that works and all this can be forgotten.

Good Luck!!! Let me know if it gives you more power....

 

[RoadWrinkle]

change your website to include a customer service phone number

They have always had their contact phone number under the "contact us" section. I called and s/w Barney about an issue with my new BULLS fs3, he was totally responsive and got the Dealer involved and was instrumental in stepping up and ultimately providing a 100% solution. I think Barney and BULLS USA provide great customer service.

 

[bob armani]

I purchased a brand new 2017 BULLS FS 2 27.5 Plus, between my Yamaha and Bosch, the Brose motor is under power and slow. My bike was shipped without the factory update, so I contacted a local dealer, the wanted $100 to do a software update, ITs a BRAND NEW bike, just spent $4K on the bike, rode it once, and now a local dealer wants another $100. CRAZY!!!! My HAIBIKE worked right out of the Box, no software update required!!!!

I contact the Factory for HELP, and told them that my bike was shipped without the new software. I live 30 mins from them, and can bring it, they said, they can flash it, but will not do it. This is absolutely insane, stay away from buying a BULLS, I will not buy another BULLS. They will turn their backs on you if you need help. First they made a crappy product, should have fixed it at the factory level, the bike was shipped without the fix, in order to fix their shortcoming, I have pay $$$$$$$ to get it fix. The bike is a 2017, Brand New, and now I am expected to pay for their mistakes...

God forbid if something major goes wrong with their product, forget about the 2 year warranty, they can't even fix a 2 Day Old Bike. This is a simple software update, like a phone update, and they want to jam you with $$$$$.

I was at Sea Otter last week, manufactures had tents set up, Haibike was there with Shimano, SRAM, all had techs to service your bike, No questions ask! Nothing like this craziness, one dealer told me that he wouldn't even touch my bike, because I didn't buy it from them. Wow!!

Buy a HAIBIKE, GIANT, FOCUS, SCOTT, IZIP, E-Motion, but never a BULLS, I learn my lesson!!!!!

Goodair-This is outrageous and I would be fuming livid mad about this whole experience. I have been watching all of the BULLS info related on this forum this is the first hearing about anything like this. There has to be a BULLS cust rep to help you with this to rectify. I am all set on a new purchase with BULLS, but now you may change my mind. I will watch this update closely. SORRY to hear about this. Hang in there. Someone has to hear your gripes and get you a FREE fix ASAP!! Thanks for letting us know!! Good Luck!

 

[bob armani]

Hey Sam, again I'm sorry to hear about the inconvenience. Let's recap our conversation because it looks like you misunderstood some of the points we talked about. I'm going to start by clarifying that your bike was bought elsewhere and not through a local dealer which is the reason some of the local shops are charging you labor to perform a software update.

All of the BULLS eBikes that ship from our warehouse go through quality control inspections which include loading the latest firmware available. Unfortunately some time between your bike getting shipped to our dealer and then getting reshipped to your house there was a new update released which is why your bike doesn't have the most current firmware loaded, not because it was shipped without a factory update. Again, like we discussed on the phone there are no defects on your bike it's ready to ride out of the box without any firmware updates. If you want the latest firmware loaded, then that's a slightly different story.

Now when you contacted me for a firmware update I told you that we could not service your bicycle here at the warehouse but I NEVER turned my back on you. I actually got your contact information and took about 45 minutes of my day to reach out to a few of the local dealers to see how BULLS could help you. After gathering information I found out that most of the BULLS IBDs here in SoCal offer free updates for life as long as you buy the bike from them. I gave you the quotes (found a shop that would save you $55) and even offered to schedule something to make it as easy as possible for you. I’m truly sorry you feel like I turned my back on you, we take our customer service very seriously and we want everyone to be happy with their BULLS Bike. Contact me at your earliest convenience so we can make this right.


-Barney
[email protected]

Barney, That sounds like a bunch of BS! You need to meet with this guy in person at a Local dealer and update his bike ASAP FOR FREE!! No questions asked. Potential customers are not going to like this at all including me and my riding buddies. I say get him a new bike if necessary at N/C to make it right IMHO.
Good Luck to you and BULLS! Thanks in advance!

 

[bob armani]

He could be the best in the business, the answer that I was given, was that I need to pay a dealer to get this fix. He called a couple of dealers for me to get a price quote. How ridiculous does that sound, the FACTORY calling a dealer to get a price quote on something that can be done at the FACTORY. As Barney stated, the BULLS dealers wanted $$$$$ to help. I called one dealer and they told me that they don't want to flash it, fearing if they broke it, they'll be responsible, go figure, it was probably an excuse because I didn't buy the bike from them. This puts the customer in a Catch 22 dilemma.

I am just asking for the bike to be flash, so that it can perform as well as my Yamaha and Bosch bikes, not asking for the world.

You would think BULLS would want ALL their bikes to be the BEST on the trail, they should do this without hesitation.

If the product was good to begin with, there would be no need to upgrade the firmware. Obviously, this firmware enhances their product, but you have to pay for the enhancement.

This is plan obsolescence, release a product and the charge the customer for firmware upgrades, Brilliant Marketing Strategy!

Goodair-Again you are 100% correct on all of your gripes here and they are totally legitimate! Keep hacking at this issue IMHO!

 

[pxpaulx]

3 different quotes with the same responses...time for a beer Bob! Kidding

This is obviously a pretty big deal, I'm sure bulls will get it right. This seems to be the first firmware update to be making a substantial ride experience update, everyone is going to want it that knows about it (btw...initial test ride today, and it is worth it!)

I wonder how Bosch will deal with updating their existing customers with the just announced firmware? I doubt it'll be much smoother.

Makes me think these companies should get together in the US and collectively beef up their after market support. Maybe an ebike specific form of the velofix model; something outside of the very small dealer network (but maybe still supported by?). Anyone up for it?!

 

[bob armani]

Brose motor is under power and slow.

I purchased a brand new 2017 BULLS FS 2 27.5 Plus, between my Yamaha and Bosch, the Brose motor is under power and slow. My bike was shipped without the factory update, so I contacted a local dealer, the wanted $100 to do a software update, ITs a BRAND NEW bike, just spent $4K on the bike, rode it once, and now a local dealer wants another $100. CRAZY!!!! My HAIBIKE worked right out of the Box, no software update required!!!!

I contact the Factory for HELP, and told them that my bike was shipped without the new software. I live 30 mins from them, and can bring it, they said, they can flash it, but will not do it. This is absolutely insane, stay away from buying a BULLS, I will not buy another BULLS. They will turn their backs on you if you need help. First they made a crappy product, should have fixed it at the factory level, the bike was shipped without the fix, in order to fix their shortcoming, I have pay $$$$$$$ to get it fix. The bike is a 2017, Brand New, and now I am expected to pay for their mistakes...

God forbid if something major goes wrong with their product, forget about the 2 year warranty, they can't even fix a 2 Day Old Bike. This is a simple software update, like a phone update, and they want to jam you with $$$$$.

I was at Sea Otter last week, manufactures had tents set up, Haibike was there with Shimano, SRAM, all had techs to service your bike, No questions ask! Nothing like this craziness, one dealer told me that he wouldn't even touch my bike, because I didn't buy it from them. Wow!!

Buy a HAIBIKE, GIANT, FOCUS, SCOTT, IZIP, E-Motion, but never a BULLS, I learn my lesson!!!!!

Goodair- Hello-You mentioned your motor is 'Brose motor is under power and slow.' What does that mean exactly? Not reaching 20 mph or not responsive enough during pedaling/cadence? Can you please elaborate a bit? Thanks a lot!

 

[bob armani]

3 different quotes with the same responses...time for a beer Bob! Kidding

This is obviously a pretty big deal, I'm sure bulls will get it right. This seems to be the first firmware update to be making a substantial ride experience update, everyone is going to want it that knows about it (btw...initial test ride today, and it is worth it!)

I wonder how Bosch will deal with updating their existing customers with the just announced firmware? I doubt it'll be much smoother.

Makes me think these companies should get together in the US and collectively beef up their after market support. Maybe an ebike specific form of the velofix model; something outside of the very small dealer network (but maybe still supported by?). Anyone up for it?!

Paulx- HaHa have a cold one! Could the motor performance be that much slower before the new updates are applied? Is your BULLS that sluggish, that you need an update? What is going on here? I hope you do not have the same issues! Arrrgghhhh! LOL!

 

[Goodair]

Goodair-Again you are 100% correct on all of your gripes here and they are totally legitimate! Keep hacking at this issue IMHO!

Thanks Bob for the support! I hope other companies are monitoring this thread as well, they should never make money on updates, need to take a lesson from the Dot.com world, updates are meant to improve their product, not as an avenue for their dealers to make money from us or to use it as tool to force us to buy from them. This business model needs to be changed, customer loyalty is EARNED through product support and customer service. We are not talking about a $79 Walmart bicycle, these things start at $2K and up, not cheap, we deserve better!!!

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Thanks Bob for the support! I hope other companies are monitoring this thread as well, they should never make money on updates, need to take a lesson from the Dot.com world, updates are meant to improve their product, not as an avenue for their dealers to make money from us or to use it as tool to force us to buy from them. This business model needs to be changed, customer loyalty is EARNED through product support and customer service. We are not talking about a $79 Walmart bicycle, these things start at $2K and up, not cheap, we deserve better!!!

@Goodair ,

Recently, Shimano released a new E8000 motor that is claimed to be much better than the Bosch CX. Many brands are quickly adapting to that motor.
So, Bosch quickly sent out a new update for their CX motor last week that has a dynamic assist in "sport" mode.
Brose did not want to fall behind either. Actually, Brose released a new update 3-4 weeks ago. If the dealer had the bike prior to that, he may have forgotten to do an update.
The latest update from Brose is supposed to improve the torque band but I have not had a chance to test it fully. Either way, it won't make the bike like Bosch CX (which has much sharper response). Brose system is more subtle and fluid than the Bosch.
I am glad Barney was able to address the issue. They are good folks and they do care about their customers. I wouldn't be too worried.

 

[bob armani]

@Goodair ,

Recently, Shimano released a new E8000 motor that is claimed to be much better than the Bosch CX. Many brands are quickly adapting to that motor.
So, Bosch quickly sent out a new update for their CX motor last week that has a dynamic assist in "sport" mode.
Brose did not want to fall behind either. Actually, Brose released a new update 3-4 weeks ago. If the dealer had the bike prior to that, he may have forgotten to do an update.
The latest update from Brose is supposed to improve the torque band but I have not had a chance to test it fully. Either way, it won't make the bike like Bosch CX (which has much sharper response). Brose system is more subtle and fluid than the Bosch.
I am glad Barney was able to address the issue. They are good folks and they do care about their customers. I wouldn't be too worried.

Ravi- Thanks for clarifying the performance changes after the update is applied. Are the BULLS bikes that sluggish as Goodair has indicated before the updates are made? This is the first I have heard about so called 'poor' performance from any Brose' motors.

 

[bob armani]

Thanks Bob for the support! I hope other companies are monitoring this thread as well, they should never make money on updates, need to take a lesson from the Dot.com world, updates are meant to improve their product, not as an avenue for their dealers to make money from us or to use it as tool to force us to buy from them. This business model needs to be changed, customer loyalty is EARNED through product support and customer service. We are not talking about a $79 Walmart bicycle, these things start at $2K and up, not cheap, we deserve better!!!

You are welcome Goodair. Very well said. These ebikes ain't cheap and you need to get these people to realize that you can take your business elsewhere! Thanks to this forum, we can band together and voice our opinions and get what is well deserved for our hard earned cash spent on a complex machine. They need expert assistance on all levels! The mfg needs to be competent and not cast aside a legitimate complaint like yours. I don't buy the liability issue at the corporate meeting. Just trying to skirt the issue to avoid any further responsibility to the customer from the get go IMHO.Please keep us all posted on any further developments concerning this matter. Thanks!

 

[bob armani]

How do you know which firmware you have? Just bought an FS3 few weeks ago and planning on getting an enduro this summer. After reading this thread, not sure if I can go with another Bulls bike. Any recommendation for other brands with strong dealer support?

Mikey-I hope Rotwild ebikes come to the USA! Looks like a great brand with an upgraded Brose'motor with 4 levels of assist instead of 3.

Looks like strong dealer support is a tall order at this stage of the game IMHO!

 

[pxpaulx]

Paulx- HaHa have a cold one! Could the motor performance be that much slower before the new updates are applied? Is your BULLS that sluggish, that you need an update? What is going on here? I hope you do not have the same issues! Arrrgghhhh! LOL!

Ok, so first I would say I had no complaints about my bulls bike pre firmware update. Yes it wasn't as off the line powerful (I've ridden Bosch and owned an sduro) but of all the ebikes I've owned I actually appreciated that it felt like an extension of my riding, rather than an addition of obvious power. Once at speed that 'off the line boost' isn't relevant, and I thought the bulls did just fine when at speed compared to other ebikes.

I only rode the bike with the New firmware a mile, but I can tell they have added more up front power, particularly in the highest setting. I'll follow up somewhere on the forum here once I go for a longer ride, maybe tomorrow (but I just got another new bike soooooo that might not happen until later this week!).

 

[Goodair]

Goodair- Hello-You mentioned your motor is 'Brose motor is under power and slow.' What does that mean exactly? Not reaching 20 mph or not responsive enough during pedaling/cadence? Can you please elaborate a bit? Thanks a lot!

Bob, its "under power and slow," = lack of power with any grade over 10%, we spent most of our time riding in mountain in So Cal. The Brose below 10% rides like all of them, but anything over 10%, the Brose is a dog, anything over 15% be prepare for a workout, over 20%, you better be running a 36t in the rear. In the mountains, we rarely go past 12-15 mph on single track riding, but in certain areas it requires torque to get you out, there were it lacks the power.

Brose stealthy look is my favorite, out of the Big 3, but torque power is my least fav....

 

[burmesepython]

Hi Goodair,

Thank you for listing your concerns. I just received my Bulls Six50 E FS RSi with the Bosh motor this past Friday. I understand they are updating the firmware for the Bosh as well? Please let me know how your firmware update works out, I'd like to do the same for my E-bike.

Thank you

 

[JohnF]

Long time lurker and decided to sign-up and post to this thread. I don't have a dog in this fight. My bike is from another manufacturer and I have no relationship with Bulls but I felt compelled to post because I don't like at all what I'm reading here. Maybe there are some extenuating circumstances but based on what I've read here the buyer's conduct is similar to what buyers try to do in other situations relating to different products and needs to be challenged.

I believe the manufacturer who said all bikes have the current firmware when they are shipped from the warehouse. Buyer decided to not support local bike shops and maybe save some money buying out of the area. Not a problem - his choice. The out of area retailer is at fault for not flashing the latest firmware. Now the buyer is angry because the local shops are expected to support him for free after he chose to not support them. The manufacturer appears to have made a good faith effort to help him, but his anger is directed at the manufacturer because they would not either cover the cost of of a local shop's labor or otherwise try to coerce a local shop to perform the upgrade for free. A better recourse would have been to contact the out of area dealer and see if they would reimburse $100 of what he paid to cover the cost of the local shop's labor.

What is offensive to me is is the use of social media, this forum in particular, into trying to intimidate the manufacturer to cover for the choice the buyer made or punish the manufacturer for not complying. Would have been better and in my opinion more honorable to suck up the costs and realize the $100 offsets the probable lower price he paid to the out of area shop. The customer is not always right.

 

[pxpaulx]

Long time lurker and decided to sign-up and post to this thread. I don't have a dog in this fight. My bike is from another manufacturer and I have no relationship with Bulls but I felt compelled to post because I don't like at all what I'm reading here. Maybe there are some extenuating circumstances but based on what I've read here the buyer's conduct is similar to what buyers try to do in other situations relating to different products and needs to be challenged.

I believe the manufacturer who said all bikes have the current firmware when they are shipped from the warehouse. Buyer decided to not support local bike shops and maybe save some money buying out of the area. Not a problem - his choice. The out of area retailer is at fault for not flashing the latest firmware. Now the buyer is angry because the local shops are expected to support him for free after he chose to not support them. The manufacturer appears to have made a good faith effort to help him, but his anger is directed at the manufacturer because they would not either cover the cost of of a local shop's labor or otherwise try to coerce a local shop to perform the upgrade for free. A better recourse would have been to contact the out of area dealer and see if they would reimburse $100 of what he paid to cover the cost of the local shop's labor.

What is offensive to me is is the use of social media, this forum in particular, into trying to intimidate the manufacturer to cover for the choice the buyer made or punish the manufacturer for not complying. Would have been better and in my opinion more honorable to suck up the costs and realize the $100 offsets the probable lower price he paid to the out of area shop. The customer is not always right.

The reality isn't so simple on either side of the coin. The odds of even having a local shop are pretty slim to begin with. This is a burgeoning segment in an otherwise established industry.

The customer may not always be right, but they do deserve aftermarket support, and I do believe that means every dealer should support warranty and update work, at bulls expense. Otherwise, give the customer the ability to update (and the liability if they brick...) their bike.

For the record I had no complaints about the prior firmware for the bike. I happened to have driven 5 hours to crazy lens to buy another bike, and brought my bulls along for the update. If I didn't make that trip, I should just be SOL?

Aftermarket support of the electric aspect of our bikes is a real issue for this industry in the US. Let me make this clear, it is NOT a bulls issue. it is not even a major player ebike company issue (you could have a local trek or specialized dealer that won't or even can't support you).

These companies need to take the next step and come up with a model that services the electric aspect of our bike for 90+% of their buyers locally, regardless of original purchase location.

Maybe the demo van should be accompanied by a service van everywhere they go. Keep a running list of firmware updates online, and the customer access to at least see what firmware they have. I could on!

The ebike industry in the US is still new enough to adapt. Best to do it now, when it gets too big, it'll be much more difficult to change.

 

[JohnF]

pxpaulx - Valid points in general, but in this case the buyer did have a choice of local shops. I am sympathetic to wanting to avoid the sales taxes in California. Possibly the buyer could have established a friendly relationship with a local dealer and given them the chance to negotiate a lower price to help offset the tax or made some accommodation such as on accessories. Maybe the manufacturer should compensate all dealers for services such as firmware upgrades. It would likely in the end be baked into a higher cost for everyone. All good things for the industry to consider, but in this specific situation, the buyer did not want to be accountable to his decision to not support a local dealer and wanted to smear a manufacturer's reputation instead.

 

[bob armani]

pxpaulx - Valid points in general, but in this case the buyer did have a choice of local shops. I am sympathetic to wanting to avoid the sales taxes in California. Possibly the buyer could have established a friendly relationship with a local dealer and given them the chance to negotiate a lower price to help offset the tax or made some accommodation such as on accessories. Maybe the manufacturer should compensate all dealers for services such as firmware upgrades. It would likely in the end be baked into a higher cost for everyone. All good things for the industry to consider, but in this specific situation, the buyer did not want to be accountable to his decision to not support a local dealer and wanted to smear a manufacturer's reputation instead.

John F-I disagree completely with your statement. No one is being 'smeared' here. The facts speak for themselves no matter where the bike was purchased. The mfg BULLS needs to step in and rectify the matter at their expense. It is a brand new bike @ 4Gs and there is a caveat with the performance directly due to the functionality of the system by no fault of the owner who purchased it. A closed and shut case IMHO. Ride safe!