Need help with Haibike, M1 spitzing, stealth, optibike, Stromer,focus, or grace e bikes

[Shea N Encinitas]

Focus and Haibike both have external gears of many speeds, and they are both mid drive-so there would be a good gear ratio considering I bike up the hill with the same size sprockets. lol!! Stromer is 500 watts. Haibike is 250 watts. Same for focus

500 watt direct drive VS 350 watt (performance line) mid drive is not apples to apples. I've owned both variations and the Bosch has more climbing torque (60 Nm have been claimed) and even a decent top end via reduction gears. Climb away! -S

 

[Mike leroy]

In CA, you do not need to register an eBike with DMV, if the bike is under 1000 watts. So you might want to filter on that.

The other thing is a 20mph speed cut-off. You can still pedal to 30mph.

 

[Racingkyle]

500 watt direct drive VS 350 watt (performance line) mid drive is not apples to apples. I've owned both variations and the Bosch has more climbing torque (60 Nm have been claimed) and even a decent top end via reduction gears. Climb away! -S

which is the 500 watt?

 

[Racingkyle]

In CA, you do not need to register an eBike with DMV, if the bike is under 1000 watts. So you might want to filter on that.

The other thing is a 20mph speed cut-off. You can still pedal to 30mph.

Ok. since haibike and focus are similar. Which one do you prefer? I like your technique, but I would rather look at everything more generally and decide what works for me with a good company. one time I bought an electric scooter that worked for me, but the brand wasn't good. therefor it broke within 2 years

 

[Shea N Encinitas]

which is the 500 watt?

Stromer and many other DD hub motor designs. They are nice once up to speed, a bit less noise and few internal parts to wear out. Some of the e-motor bikes (street illegal) are using 3,500 & even 5,000 watt hub motors! I've read that if you throttle up with 5 Kw (or so) of battery and the motor is not already moving it quickly becomes toast. BTW my previous comment about unlocked motors was in regards to the Bosch system not the Stealth. -S

 

[Shea N Encinitas]

Ok. since haibike and focus are similar. Which one do you prefer?

FYI - I can vouch for Haibike as having a very stiff and stable frame, no experience with the Focus. I owned a cheaper bike that got the shimmy at higher speeds. -S

 

[Racingkyle]

FYI - I can vouch for Haibike as having a very stiff and stable frame, no experience with the Focus. I owned a cheaper bike that got the shimmy at higher speeds. -S

I will keep that in mind.

Stromer and many other DD hub motor designs. They are nice once up to speed, a bit less noise and few internal parts to wear out. Some of the e-motor bikes (street illegal) are using 3,500 & even 5,000 watt hub motors! I've read that if you throttle up with 5 Kw (or so) of battery and the motor is not already moving it quickly becomes toast. BTW my previous comment about unlocked motors was in regards to the Bosch system not the Stealth. -S

What do you mean from the motor becoming toast. The 3,500 watt is my favorite bike from stealth

 

[Mike leroy]

Ok. since haibike and focus are similar. Which one do you prefer? I like your technique, but I would rather look at everything more generally and decide what works for me with a good company. one time I bought an electric scooter that worked for me, but the brand wasn't good. therefor it broke within 2 years

The reputation and quality of Haibike and Focus are both excellent. You cannot distinguish between the two bikes based on their brand names. At this level, both brands are safe for you. You need to compare specific bikes. You should also add Grace to your Brand list, but not any better than the others,

You are putting the cart before the horse. you have to decide on the the bike Class first. No easy short cuts for a good decision. Sounds like that is what got you in trouble with the cheap scooter. Sounds like you already have a scooter license, i.,e., CA M2 license?

I live CA and know the law. You can only use the bike lanes with a Class 1 bike. Or, Do you want to register the bike with DMV? If so, does a scooter M2 or a motorcycle M1 license matter?

Grace One video is an example of an eBike built to US DOT legal standards. Grace One is a "moped" in CA. Between 1000- 1500 watts and 20- 30mph power cut-off. Sounds like Grace One would work for you, except the hills might be too steep. 50Nm is borderline torque.

The trick to bending the law is to use software to set the output power limit. I do not know if this would hold up in court, if you got into an accident. You could buy a Cycle Analyst that allows you to set the output watts. For example, I want to ride the fire road in my park. The watts can be under 1001 watts from the software. However, to get up the hill at 35mph, the software resets the output watts above 2kW. I still need a license and insurance for the road, despite the software override.

Is 74 pounds too heavy for you to lift or push?. If I take the bike into my park fire road, then I must push it. Walk-assist mode is essential.

Must you have a rear suspension, or does a hardtail work? I think a rear suspension is a good idea for road safety. How will you deal with potholes and speed bumps without rear suspensions?

Is your hill exactly 12% ? This makes a big difference. My hills are 10, 12 and 18% grades exactly. I run up the hills, so I know precisely. If you do not know, send me the steep hill street address start and end points by a private conversation. I will tell you the exact grade %..

I need the Grace One.15, not the Grace One, because my main hill is 18%. Also, I plan to carry 40 pounds of food from the store. So, the "moped" legal classification does not help me. My eBike is classified as a "motorcycle" and a CA M1 license.

The Pinion P1.9 XR has an overall range of 568 % spread over nine gears (the SRAM XX1 has 420% in comparisson). I need this type of gear ratio for 18% grade. I also want the protection from small stones hitting the gears at 35mph and ruining the gears or my life. Rear gear cassettes are exposed.

Will you carry extra weight on a rack?

Also, I want to do 40mph up the 10% grade to compete with cars. I need a "M1 motorcycle" license.

The advantage of registering an eBike with DMV is you have full legal rights to the road, like a scooter or motorcycle. Driving in the car lane is safer than riding in the bike lane because drivers see you in the rear view mirror.

If you know you would rather drive in a car lane, then start at 1500 watts, because you will need the power. I doubt you need much more than 2kW. You need to use the EBR "Ride" site for this type of search. That is why you are finding so few results when you filter on advanced search. The other site is :

http://electricridereview.com

In the reviews, look for

• Electric Bike Class : Moped or Motorcycle (Class 4) - Learn More about Ebike Classes

 

[Mike leroy]

Stromer and many other DD hub motor designs. They are nice once up to speed, a bit less noise and few internal parts to wear out. Some of the e-motor bikes (street illegal) are using 3,500 & even 5,000 watt hub motors! I've read that if you throttle up with 5 Kw (or so) of battery and the motor is not already moving it quickly becomes toast. BTW my previous comment about unlocked motors was in regards to the Bosch system not the Stealth. -S

Shea,
Which state is 3,500 watt motor considered Class 1 ? Kyle and I both live in CA . My understanding is CA DMV an "motorized bicycle" is under 1001 watts AND a 20mph cut-off for assist.

Do you actually mean using Cycle Analyst software to set the controller output Watts to 1000, even though the motor is still physically 3-5000?

 

[Mike leroy]

I will keep that in mind.

What do you mean from the motor becoming toast. The 3,500 watt is my favorite bike from stealth

I think he means the rider did not pedal ("throttle up") and the battery could not supply enough power. Or was some electronics physically destroyed? A good bike like 1300 watt Grace One does 0-30 using the throttle without worry and backed by a solid warranty. Grace One video.

 

[Shea N Encinitas]

Point being if there is no place for all that energy to go, then Sizzle. This was on DIY power builds, Stealth 'may' have electronics to prevent such a burn out. -S

 

[Mike leroy]

Point being if there is no place for all that energy to go, then Sizzle. This was on DIY power builds, Stealth 'may' have electronics to prevent such a burn out. -S

You mean the entire electrical system burned, i.e., battery, controller, FETs and motor? Or, just the motor?

 

[Racingkyle]

The reputation and quality of Haibike and Focus are both excellent. You cannot distinguish between the two bikes based on their brand names. At this level, both brands are safe for you. You need to compare specific bikes. You should also add Grace to your Brand list, but not any better than the others,

You are putting the cart before the horse. you have to decide on the the bike Class first. No easy short cuts for a good decision. Sounds like that is what got you in trouble with the cheap scooter. Sounds like you already have a scooter license, i.,e., CA M2 license?

I live CA and know the law. You can only use the bike lanes with a Class 1 bike. Or, Do you want to register the bike with DMV? If so, does a scooter M2 or a motorcycle M1 license matter?

Grace One video is an example of an eBike built to US DOT legal standards. Grace One is a "moped" in CA. Between 1000- 1500 watts and 20- 30mph power cut-off. Sounds like Grace One would work for you, except the hills might be too steep. 50Nm is borderline torque.

The trick to bending the law is to use software to set the output power limit. I do not know if this would hold up in court, if you got into an accident. You could buy a Cycle Analyst that allows you to set the output watts. For example, I want to ride the fire road in my park. The watts can be under 1001 watts from the software. However, to get up the hill at 35mph, the software resets the output watts above 2kW. I still need a license and insurance for the road, despite the software override.

Is 74 pounds too heavy for you to lift or push?. If I take the bike into my park fire road, then I must push it. Walk-assist mode is essential.

Must you have a rear suspension, or does a hardtail work? I think a rear suspension is a good idea for road safety. How will you deal with potholes and speed bumps without rear suspensions?

Is your hill exactly 12% ? This makes a big difference. My hills are 10, 12 and 18% grades exactly. I run up the hills, so I know precisely. If you do not know, send me the steep hill street address start and end points by a private conversation. I will tell you the exact grade %..

I need the Grace One.15, not the Grace One, because my main hill is 18%. Also, I plan to carry 40 pounds of food from the store. So, the "moped" legal classification does not help me. My eBike is classified as a "motorcycle" and a CA M1 license.

The Pinion P1.9 XR has an overall range of 568 % spread over nine gears (the SRAM XX1 has 420% in comparisson). I need this type of gear ratio for 18% grade. I also want the protection from small stones hitting the gears at 35mph and ruining the gears or my life. Rear gear cassettes are exposed.

Will you carry extra weight on a rack?

Also, I want to do 40mph up the 10% grade to compete with cars. I need a "M1 motorcycle" license.

The advantage of registering an eBike with DMV is you have full legal rights to the road, like a scooter or motorcycle. Driving in the car lane is safer than riding in the bike lane because drivers see you in the rear view mirror.

If you know you would rather drive in a car lane, then start at 1500 watts, because you will need the power. I doubt you need much more than 2kW. You need to use the EBR "Ride" site for this type of search. That is why you are finding so few results when you filter on advanced search. The other site is :

http://electricridereview.com

In the reviews, look for

• Electric Bike Class : Moped or Motorcycle (Class 4) - Learn More about Ebike Classes

I do not own a M1 license, and I am not planning on owning one. If you rode the grace one here at a reasonable speed in the bike lane, nobody would care. Same with the stealth fighter, nobody would notice or mind as long as you are being reasonable. I lift weights at the gym every other day, so these bikes seem rather lightweight to me. I also emailed Stromer, and they claimed it could go about 15mph up a 15% grade. They said it can go about 24mph up an 8% grade. I looked at the grace one a while ago, but it doesn't seem to be very fast. What is the top speed on it? I will be carrying all my groceries in a soccer backpack. Rear suspension is nice, but I'd rather have a bike that works well. suspension is second priority.

 

[Racingkyle]

Point being if there is no place for all that energy to go, then Sizzle. This was on DIY power builds, Stealth 'may' have electronics to prevent such a burn out. -S

Stealth gives you a code to enter into your bike to switch between legal mode and off-road mode. I've also seen many videos of people launching up hills with it, no problems so far.

 

[Racingkyle]

Shea,
Which state is 3,500 watt motor considered Class 1 ? Kyle and I both live in CA . My understanding is CA DMV an "motorized bicycle" is under 1001 watts AND a 20mph cut-off for assist.

Do you actually mean using Cycle Analyst software to set the controller output Watts to 1000, even though the motor is still physically 3-5000?

If you behave, nobody will see your over-powered bike any differently than a street legal bike here.

 

[Mike leroy]

If you behave, nobody will see your over-powered bike any differently than a street legal bike here.

Kyle,
So many people know me that I cannot hide. They will see me do 35mph up the hill and 15mph in the park. They are friends, so they will know it is a motorcycle. If I get into an accident, I could face severe legal ramifications.

 

[Racingkyle]

Kyle,
So many people know me that I cannot hide. They will see me do 35mph up the hill and 15mph in the park. They are friends, so they will know it is a motorcycle. If I get into an accident, I could face severe legal ramifications.

Correct, but the town I live in is so wrapped up in their own lives that nobody even cares. What can the grace one do?

 

[Mike leroy]

Correct, but the town I live in is so wrapped up in their own lives that nobody even cares. What can the grace one do?

Well, it is advertised as a "moped" http://www.grace-bikes.com so 28mph
The One.15 is positioned as a "motorcycle" around 35mph

There is an important distinction. The controller is a computer that limits speed -- "cut-off". The motor and battery are capable of higher speeds, but you have to override the software settings. The easiest to override are bike controllers like HPC, that are "Cycle-Analyst" compatible. HPC uses CA as the display. I like CA, because I can change the power to legally access different terrain. The problem is "no vehicles". Although bicycles are permitted, the licen e plate may exclude the eBike.

The real issue is battery, not the motor. Above 25mph, wind resistence causes the battery to drain very fast. The upper limit is actually the battery, not the motor. So, you need to start with the battery, not the motor. The battery is 100x more complicated than the motor.

Do you need to go over 28mph or carry more than 20 pounds? If so get a "motorcycle ". If not, the "moped" is better.

 

[Racingkyle]

Well, it is advertised as a "moped" http://www.grace-bikes.com so 28mph
The One.15 is positioned as a "motorcycle" around 35mph

There is an important distinction. The controller is a computer that limits speed -- "cut-off". The motor and battery are capable of higher speeds, but you have to override the software settings. The easiest to override are bike controllers like HPC, that are "Cycle-Analyst" compatible. HPC uses CA as the display. I like CA, because I can change the power to legally access different terrain. The problem is "no vehicles". Although bicycles are permitted, the licen e plate may exclude the eBike.

The real issue is battery, not the motor. Above 25mph, wind resistence causes the battery to drain very fast. The upper limit is actually the battery, not the motor. So, you need to start with the battery, not the motor. The battery is 100x more complicated than the motor.

So the one.15, it comes with restrictionson speed?

 

[Mike leroy]

So the one.15, it comes with restrictionson speed?

Not that I know of. The limit will be battery, primarily. The motor is 2kW, so that is approaching the upper speed limit caused by wind resistence. The cut-off is for legal DMV, DOT registration purposes. When you go over 28mph, the software only kills power when you run out of battery or will overheat.

The second issue is bike weight. The high powered bikes weigh an extra 25 pounds. That makes them sluggish to pedal. You start to reach the point of diminishing returns in many ways. Costs go up, too.