Chantelle1987
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I would need a license for that bike?
Need advice. Bike for getting to work. Rust proof?
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Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
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- Mazovia, PL
If you need to ride an S-Pedelec (any legal 45 km/h e-bike) then you need the moped license (class AM) or a small motorbike or a car driving license. This rule has been introduced in Germany in 2018.
Quote:
The bottom line is: Germany is a law-abiding country with strict rules. That's why most of people ride 25 km/h, 250 W nominal e-bikes on bike paths in Germany (or on road) and are happy. Getting an S-Pedelec is doable (under several conditions as I explained before).
Additional note: Germany has the biggest number of e-bikes in the world (outside China). Despite of the 25 km/h speed limit.
Chantelle1987
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Interesting. I always thought it would be france or the Netherlands.
Is this going per capita or number overall?
Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
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- Mazovia, PL
Number overall. I have not tracked the recent figures but we are talking about several million e-bikes. Germany is also the home of many respected e-bike brands but also motors/electronics (Bosch, Brose, Mahle, Fazua), and manufacturers of general bike equipment and parts. Many of us here use Ergon or SQLabs handlebar grips, Ortlieb panniers, or Schwalbe or Continental tyres (all brands mentioned are German, regardless of where they actually carry the production out).
Chantelle1987
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Do you find the handlebar grips really matter?
I wouldn't mind a super comfortable seat. But can't say I've had any stress from the handlebars other than cold hands. 'll heated handlebars would be awesome..
Anyways I'll have a look for a German used bike shop or whatever. But I really like the look of that one from the Netherlands and the price was good. But I can't be doing with a 5 hour trip both ways. If it gets faulty I dare say it would be another trip that would take longer than Frodo baggins returning a ring back to where it come from .
Chantelle1987
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Riese & Müller Nevo - Elektrische fietsen - Tweedehandsfietsen.nl
Prachtige Riese & Mulle met Bosch middenmotor!|De fiets is zo goed als nieuw.|De fiets wordt geleverd met een 500W accu.|Km stand
I mean that one btw . the company doesn't reply though because I was going to arrange a courier
Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
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- Mazovia, PL
A 2017 e-bike basically means very old e-bike, probably with totally degraded batteries. Waste of money if you ask me. Just check how much a new Nevo costs at Riese & Muller website...Riese & Müller Nevo - Elektrische fietsen - Tweedehandsfietsen.nl
Prachtige Riese & Mulle met Bosch middenmotor!|De fiets is zo goed als nieuw.|De fiets wordt geleverd met een 500W accu.|Km standwww.tweedehandsfietsen.nl
I mean that one btw . the company doesn't reply though because I was going to arrange a courier
2000 EUR won't buy a decent new e-bike in Germany. Look at Haibike: They offer quite affordable and good e-bikes!
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Dewey
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Stefan I feel you are off-base here with your criticism of buying a used ebike. This Nevo model ebike probably cost over 5,000 euros new, as you well know it is a top of the line German made pedelec with good components. I agree the 500wh battery may not hold as much of a charge after 4 years, but because it is a Bosch pack any Bosch certified ebike shop could plug in the bike and carry out an analysis of the condition of the battery. Recently I replaced a 400wh off-brand Chinese made battery pack I bought in 2016 and it was still good for a 15 mile range. A replacement Bosch 500wh PowerPack costs about 450 euros from online German stores like Bike24 or bike-discount.de.
The OP has a budget of 2,000 euros, surely you agree it is better to buy a used ebike with quality components, with a reliable local parts supply, over any new 2,000 euro ebike? You can still buy motor cores for 1st generation Bosch ebikes from 2011, try replacing any of the ebike components from a 2,000 euro new ebike in ten years time!
Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
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- Mazovia, PL
I would be rather sceptical to buy a used e-bike from a store in the Netherlands having the e-bike haven around the OP in Germany.
Do you think the German don't sell their used e-bikes? I might have perhaps considered a purchase of a used e-bike in The Netherlands if I lived in the Ruhrgebiet, could drive to Holland in a short time and thoroughly inspect the e-bike there (assuming that I am an experienced e-biker and know what I'm doing). However, the OP lives in Stuttgart. Look at the map of Europe
The OP has the irrational belief that the Dutch understand e-bikes. Sorry. They do understand omafiets Dewey, please understand: I'm trying to save the OP from the big disappointment. She should not buy ein Schrottfahrrad. An e-bike without trusted Local Bike Shop and without warranty is often a heavy piece of metal, plastic and rubber. Expensive in it.
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Chantelle1987
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If only there was a bike like that in Germany.
But tbh I'm shocked at how much Germans charge for used goods.
I've seen a bike advertised as NEW PRICE 3400 asking for 3100 . meaning only 300 knocked off.
This isn't isolated. Other bikes new price 4000 are being asked over 3000 commonly.
If it were me i would scrape the extra 1k (or less) for a full warranty.
I've heard numerous reports from other British expats in Germany.
Seems to be a cultural thing.
In the UK in my experience a used item can expect possibly 60% original price and still take time to sell.
Even in immaculate condition with a little warranty remaining
Anyways if I can find a courier and uf this ebike shop even bothered to reply. I would still love this bike . otherwise I will have to find something nearer than a 5 hour trip requiring an overnight stay and covid test. (Which costs money too)
Btw I'm seeing aluminum as a common material.
But on Facebookbon a group post where I asked advice. This man said aluminum suffers stress and has a limited lifespan and doesn't deal with bumps as well.
Gets damaged easier and more expensive to repair.
He said alloy is better if you drive off-road ( I do take country lanes as I'm in a rural area)
So I'm leaning towards an alloy or steel frame?
It's all a lot more complicated than I expected but I can't afford to waste money on a poor investment.
So I'll be sure I get as much bang for my buck as possible.
Because as migrants we have not got the safety net we did in the UK where my parents spare bedroom is always open and free as is food
But tbh I'm shocked at how much Germans charge for used goods.
I've seen a bike advertised as NEW PRICE 3400 asking for 3100 . meaning only 300 knocked off.
This isn't isolated. Other bikes new price 4000 are being asked over 3000 commonly.
If it were me i would scrape the extra 1k (or less) for a full warranty.
I've heard numerous reports from other British expats in Germany.
Seems to be a cultural thing.
In the UK in my experience a used item can expect possibly 60% original price and still take time to sell.
Even in immaculate condition with a little warranty remaining
Anyways if I can find a courier and uf this ebike shop even bothered to reply. I would still love this bike . otherwise I will have to find something nearer than a 5 hour trip requiring an overnight stay and covid test. (Which costs money too)
Btw I'm seeing aluminum as a common material.
But on Facebookbon a group post where I asked advice. This man said aluminum suffers stress and has a limited lifespan and doesn't deal with bumps as well.
Gets damaged easier and more expensive to repair.
He said alloy is better if you drive off-road ( I do take country lanes as I'm in a rural area)
So I'm leaning towards an alloy or steel frame?
It's all a lot more complicated than I expected but I can't afford to waste money on a poor investment.
So I'll be sure I get as much bang for my buck as possible.
Because as migrants we have not got the safety net we did in the UK where my parents spare bedroom is always open and free as is food
Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
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- Europe
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- Mazovia, PL
Most of modern e-bikes are made of aluminium alloys. No need to worry about that. Aeroplanes are made from aluminium alloys too. Nice thing about aluminium alloys is these can be hydroformed, or easily made in complex shapes by water under extremely high pressure. That makes lightweight, strong and sexy bike frames. And aluminium alloys do not rust.
Carbon fibre undergoes fatigue, cracks and ages badly. (Many road races involve an accident when, for instance, two roadies crash in one another and their bikes fall apiece; or a roadie rides onto a nasty bump to break his wheel or frame).
E-bikes are rather not made of steel. Steel is reserved for some traditional bikes of choice. With a traditional bike, you can use thin-walled tubes that are still strong and do not increase the bike weight very much. A modern e-bike typically has its battery integrated in the "downtube" that needs to be pretty wide.
E-bikes are constructed either from aluminium alloy or carbon fibre, and the latter is used for very expensive performance e-bikes with all the risk on the owner.
-----------------------
No one said good e-bikes are cheap. (Would you buy a 2017 smartphone today?)
Unfortunately, prices of new good e-bikes start from EUR2700. Only example (Haibike):
www.haibike.com
Please have also look at the website of Cube, which I trust is a serious German e-bike brand with the best value for money:
cube-shop-chiemsee.de
Carbon fibre undergoes fatigue, cracks and ages badly. (Many road races involve an accident when, for instance, two roadies crash in one another and their bikes fall apiece; or a roadie rides onto a nasty bump to break his wheel or frame).
E-bikes are rather not made of steel. Steel is reserved for some traditional bikes of choice. With a traditional bike, you can use thin-walled tubes that are still strong and do not increase the bike weight very much. A modern e-bike typically has its battery integrated in the "downtube" that needs to be pretty wide.
E-bikes are constructed either from aluminium alloy or carbon fibre, and the latter is used for very expensive performance e-bikes with all the risk on the owner.
-----------------------
No one said good e-bikes are cheap. (Would you buy a 2017 smartphone today?)
Unfortunately, prices of new good e-bikes start from EUR2700. Only example (Haibike):
Electric trekking bikes for every adventure | Haibike® eBikes
Haibike electric trekking bikes are specifically designed for long trips, whether for fun or commuting. Discover our latest models online!
www.haibike.com
Please have also look at the website of Cube, which I trust is a serious German e-bike brand with the best value for money:
E Bike
Für junge Mountainbiker oder aktive Senioren - das E Bike hält Einzug in alle Altersklassen und erfüllt die gewünschten Anforderungen!
cube-shop-chiemsee.de
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Dewey
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Natürlich! I would first ask around on the German pedelec forum https://www.pedelecforum.de/forum/index.php
I did plan a plausible route by public transport for them to pick up the bike from a bike shop in the Netherlands, however I understand the OP prefers to have it delivered.the OP lives in Stuttgart. Look at the map of Europe
I would be interested to learn of a German equivalent to https://www.tweedehandsfietsen.nl/ frankly the services it provides demonstrate the Dutch have a mature used ebike marketplace. Where I live in the US by contrast we have the California based bicyclebluebook.com used ebike site but it has little inventory, most of which appears to be remaindered stock from closed ebike shops, otherwise there is Crazy Lenny's which sells a mix of new and used ebikes, otherwise you take your chances with Facebook marketplace, these are a poor substitute. As for new ebikes have you seen the ebike centre's with indoor test tracks the Dutch have built? It is efforts like this plus their forward thinking investment in bicycle infrastructure that are among the reasons the Netherlands are the leading country in the world, for cycling in general but transportation cycling in particular including ebikes. May the day come soon when the US wakes up to the potential.
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Dewey
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I gave that bike by way of example, that specific one appears to be in 56cm 22" frame size which is the largest of the 3 frame sizes for the 2017 Nevo model, the site has a limit by frame size to check you get a step through that will fit your 5'5" (165cm) height best eg I think this Gazelle Orange in 46cm frame size would be a better fit for you https://www.tweedehandsfietsen.nl/tweedehands-elektrische-fiets/gazelle-orange-c7-hmb-95660.html But the Bosch CX motor on the 2017 Nevo is significantly more powerful (75nm) than the Bosch Active Line (40nm) on that 2021 Orange so if you are getting an ebike for hill climbing the Nevo has more oomph.Riese & Müller Nevo - Elektrische fietsen - Tweedehandsfietsen.nl
Prachtige Riese & Mulle met Bosch middenmotor!|De fiets is zo goed als nieuw.|De fiets wordt geleverd met een 500W accu.|Km stand
I mean that one btw . the company doesn't reply though because I was going to arrange a courier
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Chantelle1987
New Member
- Region
- Europe
Yes.. Unfortunately the hills here can be a huge burden. Although coming home gong down hill I can reach an impressive speed.
I do like that first bike the most.
Btw i actually do still have a 2017 smartphone because I still prefer mobiles I can swap out batteries. And to my knowledge the last phone that does that is the LG G5.
When mine broke. I bought another because I had 7 spare batteries.
Ease of replacement parts is definitely a great factor I think. Mind you. If the Dutch bike company wanted to fix our bike. We would have to go back to arnheim..
That's the equivelant of going all the way to the north of Scotland from my birthplace in Wales United Kingdom. Can't say I fancy that either.
Thanks for all the resources though. I'll be looking into all these during my spare time.
indianajo
Well-Known Member
All metals get stressed by the weight on them. Can they handle it? Some brands didn't use enough aluminum: there have been several reports about Specialized experiencing cracks around the motor mount lately on EBR.com. A reason I didn't recommend them. Check the brand forums, known problems thread, for some data about which brands are experiencing this and other problems. Many more reports of broken spokes (imitation steel, at least magnetic) and cracked rims (?). At your weight, I doubt if you are stressing any bike frame near the maximum.
My bike in the avatar is aluminum. I weight 160 lb, I carry 15 lb tools water repair parts, I carry up to 80 lb groceries or ag supplies out 30 miles to my summer camp. The bike grosses 330 lb regularly. I have no frame problems. No spoke or rim problems either. 8000 miles down, 3 3/4 years. I did just knock the bike off the stand breaking a brake handle when it hit the dirt.
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One route some take to an ”affordable” ebike is to convert a conventional bicycle to ebike use. I’m not sure if shops doing this exist in Germany but the conversion is something a competent bike mechanic should be able to handle. Given the low power limits in Germany you probably want a mid-drive.
As for frame material I wouldn’t worry about it too much. At the price you want to pay most of the options are going to be aluminum or steel. Steel frames don’t really rust. The main rust issue for bicycles is mostly in the drivetrain. Frequent cleaning and lubrication, especially in the winter, helps. You can also use a chain case or a belt drive with a rear internal gear hub.
As for frame material I wouldn’t worry about it too much. At the price you want to pay most of the options are going to be aluminum or steel. Steel frames don’t really rust. The main rust issue for bicycles is mostly in the drivetrain. Frequent cleaning and lubrication, especially in the winter, helps. You can also use a chain case or a belt drive with a rear internal gear hub.
Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
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- Europe
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- Mazovia, PL
To all North American giving their certainly sound advice here:
When the pandemic is over, take a flight to Germany to see the e-bike capital of the world.
(The advice to import a used e-bike from the Netherlands to Germany is as practical as importing sand to Sahara).
I was trying to be helpful; to save the OP bad investment and frustration. E-bike is not a used car. E-bike is a computer on wheels, and these become obsolete fast. They need service personnel qualified with bikes and respective electronics nearby. The OP has been warned. It is not my money anyway.
My last advice (and may that help the OP): Please visit a good e-bike store of a renowned brand where you live. Ask for a demo ride (and don't pay much attention to how much the e-bike costs). I'm strangely sure you wouldn't like to look back at different Schrottfahrraden you considered before after your demo ride.
When the pandemic is over, take a flight to Germany to see the e-bike capital of the world.
(The advice to import a used e-bike from the Netherlands to Germany is as practical as importing sand to Sahara).
I was trying to be helpful; to save the OP bad investment and frustration. E-bike is not a used car. E-bike is a computer on wheels, and these become obsolete fast. They need service personnel qualified with bikes and respective electronics nearby. The OP has been warned. It is not my money anyway.
My last advice (and may that help the OP): Please visit a good e-bike store of a renowned brand where you live. Ask for a demo ride (and don't pay much attention to how much the e-bike costs). I'm strangely sure you wouldn't like to look back at different Schrottfahrraden you considered before after your demo ride.
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Dewey
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Stefan, no-one doubts your sincerity, please don’t take this as personal criticism. I agree the OP should look locally, which is why I suggested she ask around on the German pedelec forum. But the OP in post #30 wrote that she cannot find in Germany a quality ebike at the price she wants to pay. Buying a used ebike is a risk, parts do wear out, but there are Bosch ebike certified technicians in bike shops all over Germany, and parts available either from Bosch or German resellers like https://www.fahrrad-profis.de/
For the benefit of the OP this shop in Ravensburg also sells used ebikes like this 2019 Kalkhoff with Bosch active line (40nm) motor in your size (45cm frame) https://www.fahrrad-profis.de/produkt/kalkhoff-agattu1badvance-633527204?sku=633626244_DERBY though it sounds like you want to buy a bike with a more powerful motor to climb the hills where you live.
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Excellent suggestion Stefan. I would love to travel to Germany (and other European destinations)!
It’s one of the destinations after all the travel mess gets better.
For sure will be checking out all the different brands of bikes, powered and non-powered.
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