My Fat Bike Spreadsheet - please comment, advise, help, be critical :-)

[david884497]

I am looking to buy 2 x Electric Fat Bikes on a tight budget. I have made a spreadsheet that I would invite comment or criticism on and also hope it may help others making a decision.

Some comments about how I set it up.

I used current (4/28) pricing and discounts - taking into account any available discounts for a multiple bike purchase and any discount codes I could find.

I picked a bunch of data points that were important to me and then gave out points accordingly. You will see some of the points I weighted more - like power, battery size and others. My wife and I are heavier riders so some lesser powered or lower weight rated offerings may have been skipped over.

I then added up the points and divided by the price to try and work out a "Bang for your Buck" index. The lower the number the better the "bang".

My issue with all of this is that I was having trouble finding any concrete information on build quality, customer support and the FEEL of riding these.

It also really had me scratching my head as to why two of the (seemingly) most popular models came out last on my Bang for Buck index (Aventure & Rad Rover6).

I would welcome any comments, advice and hope that maybe others could use this to at least have a lot of specs and info in front of them when trying to sift through all of this.

PS The Magicycle Cruiser I priced including the hydraulic disc brake upgrade even though it does not come standard with them. Also one bike did not come standard with a rear rack but I built that into the price as well just to have one less complication.

Spreadsheet Link:

Ebikes

Sheet1 Make,Model,Price,Points,Bang/Buck,1,Voltage,Amp Hours,Motor Pwr,Hydraulic Brakes,Sensor Type,Gearset,Bike Gears,Frame Type,Throttle Type,Payload,Chainwheel,Cassette/Freewheel,Geared Motor,Weight Ariel,Kepler,$1,699.00,32,53.1,1040Wh,52v,20ah,1000w,Y,Cadence,Altus,7,Step Thru,Twist,300lbs,52T

docs.google.com

I would love opinions, advice, debates etc. Again we are heavier riders and we cant afford anything much more than I have listed there.
Also if this helps anyone else please feel free to use.

 

[indianajo]

Features sell bikes. Features do not keep them moving, keep the wheels round & straight, keep the headset straight or the axle from breaking, axle nuts from falling off, keep the cables in adjustment. Noteable disasters recently, juiced ripcurrent in this thread. https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/why-do-i-buy-stuff-with-zero-support.48404/ Ancheer MTB proposed by rider in this thread. https://electricbikereview.com/foru...-for-small-person-with-a-budget-of-700.48400/ The ancheer Court tested in 2019 didn't even make it through the test ride without the controller breaking. Look at brand forum known problems and solutions thread for any brand you are considering. Then divide # of posts by market share (big secret).
Also, fat tires (3" up) are for powder snow or fluffy beach sand. Because max pressure is 20 psi or 30 psi, they don't carry more weight than 2.1" tires common, or 2.4" or 2.8" tires on some bikes that will take 55 psi. Fat tires do drag more, and in 20" size if you have to fold the bike, they do ease comfort through a pothole some.
Rad has huge market share and there is some evidence that the problems of yesteryear, like spokes that stretch, replaced one at a time, are over.
I rode **** kid quality bikes from 2008 to 2018 2000 miles a year. I'm short, they fit me. Diamondback MTB the wheels were so small tires would fall off them. The shimano 6 speed axle broke under my enormous 180 lb. Pacific Quantum MTB the plastic crank wore out in 4000 miles and wouldn't come off, probably glued. Pacific axle race (shimano 7 speed) came unscrewed, dropped the balls, and I had to push it home. I was forever adjusting cables that stretched. The shimano 7 speed thumb shifter caused a 6 cm x 1 cm cyst over my thumb joint. Both bikes threw me over the handlebars on my chin 4 times. The Pacific was knocked down by a dog hitting front wheel, spreading groceries all over Hwy 3.
My $1500 unpowered yuba bodaboda has 8000 miles in 4 years without spoke adjustment. About 2 shifter cable adjustments in that time. The axles are long enough I have double nuts on them, which don't come loose until I take them off. The shimano 8 speed rear axle hasn't come unscrewed or needed work. I changed to a twist shifter from SRAM and my thumb cyst went away. Other bikes made of real steel & aluminum, probably trek, giant, specialized, cannondale, kona , electra townie (trek) momentum (giant) yamaha. Real steel & aluminum is a feature you can't see in a picture.

 

[david884497]

Features sell bikes. Features do not keep them moving, keep the wheels round & straight, keep the headset straight or the axle from breaking, axle nuts from falling off, keep the cables in adjustment. Noteable disasters recently, juiced ripcurrent in this thread. https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/why-do-i-buy-stuff-with-zero-support.48404/ Ancheer MTB proposed by rider in this thread. https://electricbikereview.com/foru...-for-small-person-with-a-budget-of-700.48400/ The ancheer Court tested in 2019 didn't even make it through the test ride without the controller breaking. Look at brand forum known problems and solutions thread for any brand you are considering. Then divide # of posts by market share (big secret).
Also, fat tires (3" up) are for powder snow or fluffy beach sand. Because max pressure is 20 psi or 30 psi, they don't carry more weight than 2.1" tires common, or 2.4" or 2.8" tires on some bikes that will take 55 psi. Fat tires do drag more, and in 20" size if you have to fold the bike, they do ease comfort through a pothole some.
Rad has huge market share and there is some evidence that the problems of yesteryear, like spokes that stretch, replaced one at a time, are over.
I rode **** kid quality bikes from 2008 to 2018 2000 miles a year. I'm short, they fit me. Diamondback MTB the wheels were so small tires would fall off them. The shimano 6 speed axle broke under my enormous 180 lb. Pacific Quantum MTB the plastic crank wore out in 4000 miles and wouldn't come off, probably glued. Pacific axle race (shimano 7 speed) came unscrewed, dropped the balls, and I had to push it home. I was forever adjusting cables that stretched. The shimano 7 speed thumb shifter caused a 6 cm x 1 cm cyst over my thumb joint. Both bikes threw me over the handlebars on my chin 4 times. The Pacific was knocked down by a dog hitting front wheel, spreading groceries all over Hwy 3.
My $1500 unpowered yuba bodaboda has 8000 miles in 4 years without spoke adjustment. About 2 shifter cable adjustments in that time. The axles are long enough I have double nuts on them, which don't come loose until I take them off. The shimano 8 speed rear axle hasn't come unscrewed or needed work. I changed to a twist shifter from SRAM and my thumb cyst went away. Other bikes made of real steel & aluminum, probably trek, giant, specialized, cannondale, kona , electra townie (trek) momentum (giant) yamaha. Real steel & aluminum is a feature you can't see in a picture.

Thanks for your reply

 

[tomjasz]

I would love opinions, advice, debates etc.

Why fat bikes?

 

[david884497]

Why fat bikes?

A few reasons. We live in Washington State and want to use them predominantly while camping. So muddy campsites, trails with roots, bumps and also beaches. Secondly; quite a few YouTube videos I watched suggested that fat tires are good for heavier riders because they can absorb some bumps and shocks making the ride easier on the rider and the bikes. Also it may help reduce pinch flats (maybe the reason I get so many flats on my Scott Sub 20 commuter bike).

 

[Tom@WashDC]

I have only quickly looked at your spreadsheet.

The Eunarou IS NOT Torque Sensing. That is a BBSHD which is only cadence sensing despite their deceptive verbiage. "160Nm of torque and cadence-sensing assist"

I would double check your specs on all the bikes, and double check again.

Discount the watt "ratings" of the motors. See here: https://ebikes.ca/learn/power-ratings.html

Just a few thoughts before I run out the door...

 

[rich c]

If you can't ride somewhere with 2.4" tires, you shouldn't be in there. Fat tires are heavier and on most bikes has a gyroscopic feel when trying to steer them at speed. I had one, and sold it after buying a full suspension MTB with 2.4" tires. Felt like the difference between a race car and a military truck. Please ride fat bikes before buying 2.

 

[indianajo]

Here is one with 2.4"x27" tires, front suspension, torque sensing, hyd brakes, 280 lb capacity, 2 frame sizes, 30 posts on known problems thread: https://surface604bikes.com/products/2022-rook
Has a hub motor so won't climb 1000' in an hour, it would overheat. $2500
Here is one with 2.35"x24" tires, 400 lb capacity, stretch frame so rider weight goes on front tire. SHimano mid drive so will climb 1000' mountains without overheating. https://www.xtracycle.com/product/rfa-2/
$4500

 

[vincent]

i totally disagree - fat bikes definitely have their place

 

[retiredNH]

i totally disagree - fat bikes definitely have their place

No one says fat bikes don't have a place. Re-read the comments. They have advantages in limited situations, and big disadvantages in most other situations. Youtubers love them though because of their looks in certain situations.
I think the OP might get more useful guidance and comments if the OP described why an ebike and where, how, when they'll be ridden. As Indianajo and others hinted at, there's a big difference between what you might need if it's a city bike for recreational riding vs a touring bike for long tours in hilly country vs a mountain bike. Also, is the OP willing and able to to one's own service, or a person that doesn't know a wrench from a hammer? (just joking...)
Lots of options, lots of choices, and big compromises to be made if one wants to keep the price down to a few thousand each.

 

[vincent]

rich said you should not ride if 2.4 does not work for you in any situation

the op stated what he needs the bikes for in the third posts i think and imo fat bikes apply there

 

[david884497]

I have only quickly looked at your spreadsheet.

The Eunarou IS NOT Torque Sensing. That is a BBSHD which is only cadence sensing despite their deceptive verbiage. "160Nm of torque and cadence-sensing assist"

I would double check your specs on all the bikes, and double check again.

Discount the watt "ratings" of the motors. See here: https://ebikes.ca/learn/power-ratings.html

Just a few thoughts before I run out the door...

Thank you.

 

[david884497]

Thanks for the replies so far. To give some context:. My wife and I plan to use them when we take our travel trailer out. This will mostly be in Washington/Oregon/CA.

We plan to use them to ride around campsites, on beaches and to grocery stores for resupply or to close by attractions. No super long rides but probably a good mix of hills, flat, road, mud, sand, tracks, small dogs.....

Thank you.

I am pretty handy with a spanner and have worked on motorcycles, motorcycle wiring and I have a basic commuter bike I work on myself.

I hope that helps. I do really understand that we would get a much better pair of bikes if we had $10k to lay out but unfortunately that is not where we are!

 

[vincent]

great worksheet

how tall are you guys?
espin might be one to look at also, i have been happy with my nesta after i changed the pas from 5 levels to 9

planning to get another nesta in the future or the bigger one with 26 inch tires

 

[tomjasz]

For me, fat bikes suck as daily riders and commuters. The latest rash of 20" fat bikes are a fad. Most won't last. If you're riding in sand and snow I get it but the steering dynamics completely suck. I built one and hated it. The cheap seats are especially losers. The spreadsheet doesn't address the myriad of complaints. Eunorau and their ilk put the buyer in charge of support and warranty issues.

The spreadsheet does nothing to sort the component quality. We helped Eunorau set up bikes a few years ago for an eBike/bike show. Our reward was an overpriced parts stream and the rudest employee of all the China sources we used. Bruce was a first-class asshat. That said, I'd rather have a TSDZ2 or BBSHD motor over any other Bafang mid-drive. Largely due to crap replacement parts streams.

That said, I've had some of the most powerful Bafang motors and I think all that power is a waste.

 

[vincent]

and yet i like mine and have liked all of mine, had 4-5 fat bikes and wish my wattwagon was a fat
i do hit a lot of deep sand here and 90% of my riding is off road

but turned out my 2.8 wattwagon is not much lighter, it was a mistake ot have it made with 2.8 tires

definitely agree fats are not for everything but they have their attributes

 

[david884497]

great worksheet

how tall are you guys?
espin might be one to look at also, i have been happy with my nesta after i changed the pas from 5 levels to 9

planning to get another nesta in the future or the bigger one with 26 inch tires

Thanks for your reply.

I'm 6'0" and wifey is 5'6" and because we are old and plan to carry stuff on the back step-thru is our preference.

 

[david884497]

Fat bikes suck as daily riders and commuters. The latest rash of 20" fat bikes are a fad. Most won't last. If you're riding in sand and snow I get it but the steering dynamics completely suck. I built one and hated it. The cheap seats are especially losers. The spreadsheet doesn't address the myriad of complaints. Eunorau and their ilk put the buyer in charge of support and warranty issues.

Thanks for your reply. The fact I couldn't account for complaints/build quality etc led me here. I agree that Eunorau doesn't seem to have a lot of market saturation here - its also not step thru. Noted on the seats - things like that I'm happy to buy and bolt on down the track if required. Thanks again.

 

[retiredNH]

Thanks for your reply.

I'm 6'0" and wifey is 5'6" and because we are old and plan to carry stuff on the back step-thru is our preference.

If you don't plan to go more than 20 miles or so RT and don't have any long hills to climb, then a hub drive fat tire bike might work for you. Do be aware though that availability is still an issue. And as one other here has said, small wheels, like 20", fat tires and ruts or mud are a difficult combination, so keep an eye on trial periods, so you can buy, try, and then get some of your money back if it doesn't work out.

 

[vincent]

definitely go step thru and being 5'6" myself i would look at some of the 20-24 inch step thru

imo the espin nesta with 20 inch tires is too big for me, these bikes/frames are all made too big

this might be a reason to consider more of the bikes with frame sizes, aventon??? not sure which ones that will be

i do agree with other posters saying to try ride them first if you can
because of size, weight and all of the bikes will have different programming in the controllers
crappy programming can mean it takes off fast in level 1 pas and goes up to 11-12 mph, this is will most likely be too fast for the kind of riding you describe

i am not a facebook fan but if you can get it down to 3-4 choices and no bike shops have what you want to test ride good chance there is a facebook page and an owner of that brand will let you test ride their bike
i would do that if you can