My DIY builds: GMAC, BBSHD, 9C RH212, CYC Photon, ToSeven DM01

bill_1960 said:
My rationale for considering the BBS02b was its supposed to have less problems with the controller than the BBS02 ?
Click to expand...
BBS02(A) was replaced in 2016 with the BBS02B. Early BBS02B versions had the same problem FET's.
BBS02B is a pedalers motor. Taking off from dead stops without shifting as one would with a non-motorized bike will kill a BBS02B. Proper shifting is critical. There is no inherent heat issue IF it's ridden as an assist and proper up and downshifting takes place.

The BBSHD is another beast. Used by pedicabs and cargo bikes. BUT the biggest complaint is "clown pedaling". Little pedal resistance for higher speeds. Sorry that's a clumsy description...

I sold all three of my BBSHD motors in favor of BBS01B 36V 500W. For me, a more natural feeling ride and I use my gearing effectively. I've been riding my wife's 36V 350W BBS01(A) from 2014.
16.8MPH in 4th of 7 gears. For me quite adequate.

I beat the dickens out of my last BBSHD I rode it like an electric scooter always by throttle.
It flew at 33MPH and it was on a 7 speed and I left it in 4th gear most of the time. Taking off from dead stops by throttle with no heat issues. In the end, 33MPH was just plain dangerous in my opinion. I upgraded the rim brake pads but the panic stop distance from 30-33MPH was abysmal.

We're waiting to see what Bafang does to the current kit line of mid drives. Hoping they aren't planning on phasing them out for the proprietary battery included kits.

I'm in the midst of converting a trike to a Grin 9C with Statorade and Hubfins for cooling. I'm convinced Bafang is going to leave us "out in the cold" with no decent parts stream. Pre 2016 motors have no parts stream. When they break down, it's over unless parts were stashed. In my case I have a backup motor with 150 miles on it.

I'd look to @linklemming and other actual users to sort the GMAC performance. Don't bother with opinions from non-users. They'll simply repeat what they read on forums.
ebikes.ca has some great kits. I especially like the Grin controllers that allow me to use any of my batteries, 36V, 48V, and 52V.
 
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bill_1960 said:
Thanks for that info. I hear that a lot about choosing the BBSHD over the BBS02B and I wont rule it out.
I weigh 70kg/154lbs, so not too heavy.
My rationale for considering the BBS02b was its supposed to have less problems with the controller than the BBS02 ?

Sounds like the MAC would also do the job for me. Hard to get hold of at the moment, and even large diameter 36 hole rims are hard to get, at least in my region. I while back I asked EM3ev to quote for a MAC motor, but they dont ship to my location.
Where did you source yours from ?
Click to expand...
We are off topic here. Maybe you should start a new string?
My MAC 12t came from EM3ev, but that was a few years ago. It would seem that they (and everyone else?) have stopped handling them. No idea why. They're an awesome motor with no known recurring issues. The only place I've seen them for sale recently is direct-
https://www.macmotortech.com/ebike-hub-motor.html
 
tomjasz said:
BBS02B is a pedalers motor. Taking off from dead stops without shifting as one would with a non-motorized bike will kill a BBS02B. Proper shifting is critical. There is no inherent heat issue IF it's ridden as an assist and proper up and downshifting takes place.

Sounds like what I'm after, although I would go for the 48V 750W version
Click to expand...
 
bill_1960 said:
Looking at various options to convert a 29er hardtail mtb to an ebike. Donor bike yet to be sourced. I live in a fairly flat area except for a nearby national park that rises to 1000m elevation via a very picturesque 32km sealed road. So I need something that can climb. My research so far has me tossing up between the GMAC and BBS02. A search of GMAC vs BBS02 brought me to this thread on EBR.
Read it all, great info by Linklemming and others.
Click to expand...
My recommendation would be to go with the BBSHD. Its cheaper, less wiring and handles a little better due to lower motor placement.

That being said if you want to go with the GMAC it will handle that 3.13% grade just fine.

Like tomjasz, I beat the snot out of BBSHD and it just keeps on going.

It could be a challenge finding a newer 29er hardtail that will work (GMAC or BBSHD) as MTBs these days are made for smaller 1x drivetrains/chainrings. I run a 42t front chainring and an 11t smallest cog and had to settle on a surly bridge club and surly troll to fit the 42t front. You can add spacers to fit larger chainrings but can then run into chainline issues.
 
Surly Troll- GMAC update
Something is not right with the GMAC motor as it is SUPER hard to just turn. When coming off the throttle it stops very quickly (the phaserunner virtual freewheeling is supposed to keep it always moving slightly).

This setup has always had issues with bigger bumps like coming off curbs. About 20% of the time, it just cuts out and ceases to supply further power and I have to cycle power to the CA3 and/or phaserunner. This seems like it has become more frequent. Today, everything seemed normal for an 85F day. Motor temps and power was just fine. About 8 miles into the ride I got the shutoff due to coming off a curb. Reset power and all was normal. About two miles later I noticed a dramatic reduction in power when encountering a minor bump coming onto a bridge. At that point, the bike was noticeably harder to pedal to maintain speed. When I first noticed this, motor temps were about 94C. This is high but not alarming and the CA3 will start limiting power at 90C. I usually like to keep temps at or below 90C. Along with being harder to pedal, the temps started climbing even if I limited power to about 200-300w. I saw temps up to 104C at which point the motor starts making small noises like a disc slightly rubbing. I limped home for about 5 miles.

So no funny noises coming from the motor like excessive gear noise or bearing noise. Its just very hard to turn.

Not sure what to do yet. Most likely will order a second GMAC motor
 
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linklemming said:
Surly Troll- GMAC update
Something is not right with the GMAC motor as it is SUPER hard to just turn. When coming off the throttle it stops very quickly (the phaserunner virtual freewheeling is supposed to keep it always moving slightly).

This setup has always had issues with bigger bumps like coming off curbs. About 20% of the time, it just cuts out and ceases to supply further power and I have to cycle power to the CA3 and/or phaserunner. This seems like it has become more frequent. Today, everything seemed normal for an 85F day. Motor temps and power was just fine. About 8 miles into the ride I got the shutoff due to coming off a curb. Reset power and all was normal. About two miles later I noticed a dramatic reduction in power when encountering a minor bump coming onto a bridge. At that point, the bike was noticeably harder to pedal to maintain speed. When I first noticed this, motor temps were about 94C. This is high but not alarming and the CA3 will start limiting power at 90C. I usually like to keep temps at or below 90C. Along with being harder to pedal, the temps started climbing even if I limited power. I saw temps up to 104C at which point the motor starts making small noises like a disc slightly rubbing. I limped home for about 5 miles.

So no funny noises coming from the motor like excessive gear noise or bearing noise. Its just very hard to turn.

Not sure what to do yet. Most likely will order a second GMAC motor
Click to expand...
Just tried disassembling the motor and ran into issues trying to remove the inner jam nut shown at 1:54 in the linked video, also no spacer between the jam nuts like at 1:25. There actually was a piece of metal in that area that I am guessing is a metal part of the seal on the ball bearing (It had rubber like stuff stuck to it). Looking into the cassette, I see similar metal slivers so Im guessing the ball bearing seized.


I did ride this bike thru a major puddle awhile back so maybe thats the issue. My feet were under water despite having the cranks level. That being said, the cassette seems fine so who knows. I did have to replace the bearings in the BB though.

I will order a new GMAC motor and buildup the wheel using the existing rim/spokes (ordering new spokes for backup). After I get it installed on the bike, the old one will go back to Grin for servicing and I will report what the issue was.

Also ordered another SPL-01 light (https://ebikes.ca/spl-01-1900-lumen-ebike-light.html) and BBSHD phaserunner harness in case I want to play with a phaserunner and BBSHD in the future (72V looks mighty tempting).

Cant wait to try the new regen software Grin has (regen while backpedaling). Will be fun to play with although my use of regen is minimal.
 
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linklemming said:
SPL-01 light
Click to expand...
I did their Roxim lights on two bikes. I’m really liking gear that works at a range of voltages. Especially Grin controllers. Baserunner in a battery base makes for a very clean build. Add OS X programming for a complete win for me.

I get nothing out of regen but really like the regen braking. And the reverse on the trike. Top the kit off with a single connector with the RTR kits and I’m a fan.

I did see the Phaserunner Motor Cable Harness for BBSHD. Nice!
 
bill_1960 said:
I note Eunorau list a MAC motor kit, but only the 8T version.
I'm going for 29 inch wheels so assume the 10T or 12T would be best for that ?
Anyway, might be useful for those after the MAC without regen.
Eunorau MAC conversion Kit
Click to expand...
There's a LOT to this, but yes, most people would want the 10 or 12t, especially when considering 29" wheels. Have you seen this chart (motor tool) from Grin? I've set it up with the MAC 12t motor and the MAC 8t. Look at the differences in starting torque and the speeds where each are most efficient. Also, check out the box at the lower right, showing power consumption and range....

Motor Simulator - Tools

Our ebike motor simulator allows you to easily simulate the different performance characteristics of different ebike setups - with a wide selection of hub motors modeled, and the ability to add custom batteries and controllers and set a wide variety of vehicle parameters you'll be able to see...
ebikes.ca ebikes.ca



 
Cutler Mac will sell a single motor, but follow up orders last had a 5 motor minimum. One of mine came from a 5 motor group buy. BTW the GD motors from Grin are as good or better. See the eZee motors.
Sadly the supply chain is pooched, “Out of stock”
 
tomjasz said:
Cutler Mac will sell a single motor, but follow up orders last had a 5 motor minimum. One of mine came from a 5 motor group buy. BTW the GD motors from Grin are as good or better. See the eZee motors.
Sadly the supply chain is pooched, “Out of stock”
Click to expand...
Same motor simulator as above set up with MAC 12t vs. eZee kit motor. eZee specs show 7.2 rpm per volt, giving us 350 rpm at 48v. - which is the motor chosen for the chart. "Best" can be viewed a hundred ways. See which YOU would prefer!

Motor Simulator - Tools

Our ebike motor simulator allows you to easily simulate the different performance characteristics of different ebike setups - with a wide selection of hub motors modeled, and the ability to add custom batteries and controllers and set a wide variety of vehicle parameters you'll be able to see...
ebikes.ca ebikes.ca

It's settling arguments like this one (which is better?) that familiarity with this tool works out best....
 
AHicks said:
which is better?
Click to expand...
eZee motors are known for the high quality build. The simulator doesn’t address build quality. But hey what would I know from actually having built with both and run both. Argument? surely not you...

From eBikes.ca

https://ebikes.ca/learn/power-ratings.html#Thedifferencebetweenpowerandtorque

Don't be fixated by the watt ratings, take them with large grains of salt. In the first place, hub motors should be rated by how much torque they can produce rather than how many watts they can produce, but even this figure could be subject to much variation and will be difficult to compare across manufacturers and vendors.


 
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AHicks said:
Same motor simulator as above set up with MAC 12t vs. eZee kit motor. eZee specs show 7.2 rpm per volt, giving us 350 rpm at 48v. - which is the motor chosen for the chart. "Best" can be viewed a hundred ways. See which YOU would prefer!

Motor Simulator - Tools

Our ebike motor simulator allows you to easily simulate the different performance characteristics of different ebike setups - with a wide selection of hub motors modeled, and the ability to add custom batteries and controllers and set a wide variety of vehicle parameters you'll be able to see...
ebikes.ca ebikes.ca

It's settling arguments like this one (which is better?) that familiarity with this tool works out best....
Click to expand...
Thanks for that. I think I'd want the 12T for the 29" wheels, especially for the 32km mountain road nearby that I mentioned before.. All a bit hard at the moment with availability and shipping costs. Still considering the BBS02 or HD mid drive too, which are easily available.
 
bill_1960 said:
Thanks for that. I think I'd want the 12T for the 29" wheels, especially for the 32km mountain road nearby that I mentioned before.. All a bit hard at the moment with availability and shipping costs. Still considering the BBS02 or HD mid drive too, which are easily available.
Click to expand...
Mid drive would have a clear advantage when climbing the bigger/longer hills....

And while you're still in the "collecting data phase", you might want to do a search on the Tong Sheng TSDZ2 motors as an option to the Bafang mid drives.....
 
tomjasz said:
eZee motors are known for the high quality build. The simulator doesn’t address build quality. But hey what would I know from actually having built with both and run both. Argument? surely not you...

From eBikes.ca

https://ebikes.ca/learn/power-ratings.html#Thedifferencebetweenpowerandtorque

Don't be fixated by the watt ratings, take them with large grains of salt. In the first place, hub motors should be rated by how much torque they can produce rather than how many watts they can produce, but even this figure could be subject to much variation and will be difficult to compare across manufacturers and vendors.


Click to expand...
Figured you'd have a fit if I ran that chart. I figured the results were relevant enough to run it anyway - with a disclaimer clearly stating "Best" can be viewed a hundred ways. See which YOU would prefer!". And you still get mad.... 🤣
 
tomjasz said:
I did their Roxim lights on two bikes. I’m really liking gear that works at a range of voltages. Especially Grin controllers. Baserunner in a battery base makes for a very clean build. Add OS X programming for a complete win for me.

I get nothing out of regen but really like the regen braking. And the reverse on the trike. Top the kit off with a single connector with the RTR kits and I’m a fan.

I did see the Phaserunner Motor Cable Harness for BBSHD. Nice!
Click to expand...
I have the roxim front light as well, I ran it on the GMAC bike until I got the SPL-01
https://ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicycle-parts/lights/roxim-x4-ebike-light.html

Works ok as an 'absolute minimum' for offroad(I carry extra lights in my camelback) but fine for most bike path stuff IMHO. My only issue with it is that if plugged into the CA3 power port, it will reset the CA3 when you turn it on going as far as loosing any trip data. It has an excellent beam cutoff so its good if you encounter pedestrians/hikers. With my higher quality pure offroad lights, I get comments from pedestrians/hikers even on the lowest setting.

That being said, the SPL-01 is just a better light in every way except for size. Same nice beam cutoff and a daytime running light/low/high modes. It doesnt reset the CA3 when powered on. When the outside light gets low enough, it only has low/high modes. There is quite alot of artifacts in the beam pattern but serves as my main offroad light for any trail I can do on my rigid ebikes with 2.6 tires.

I have minimal need for regen but it will be fun to play with. Who knows, maybe it will be life changing:cool:
 
Surly Troll- GMAC update
Kudos to Grin for quick shipping even from Canada. I orderd my new GMAC replacement on 5/28 and got it in exactly one week later on 6/4 (on a saturday no less) using Canada Post. Im getting pretty good at building wheels and had the wheel built up in just over 1 hour. New motor works like a charm. Also loaded the Phaserunner with GMAC defaults from Grin (option in the Phaserunner software, downloads data from Grin) that differed from what I was using before (all manual inputs). The motor feels much peppier Im guessing due to these changes although my old motor might have been degrading over time. Also loaded new CA firmware (beta 3.23b) in preparation for playing with regen.

Interesting video from Grin on the 3.2 software (note mention of hub motor with integrated torque sensor at 2:20)

As mentioned before, I doubt I will have any significant use of regen but it will be fun to play with.

An interesting thing to note is that regen cause the motor to heat up same as if its producing power (40:13 in the following video)...makes sense, just never thought about it

Grin has been great at working with me on returning the motor. There might actually be a warranty claim although its too soon to tell at the moment and not anything that I am expecting. We will see what the diagnosis is.
 
linklemming said:
An interesting thing to note is that regen cause the motor to heat up same as if its producing power (40:13 in the following video)...makes sense, just never thought about it
Click to expand...
Hubsinks? I used them for my new 9C from Grin. Their controller and gear leaves most kit sellers in its dust.
 
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