Motor Maintenance

kwseattle

Active Member
Region
USA
City
Seattle
Had some free time today, so I decided to pull the motor off of my Hydra, clean up the gears real good, and grease everything up to see if it quiets down the motor.

I ended up spending a ridiculous amount of time researching greases for Bafang motors, specifically the M620. Most people use Mobil SHC 100, so I tried to buy that. For some reason, however, there's a massive shortage of aviation and heavy industry specification synthetic lithium greases, so it was out of stock everywhere. I did find a product guide on the Mobil website, and found a product they make called Mobil Unirex N2 which is a lithium based grease that said it is designed for high speed applications and electric motors. Perfect! Ordered some up on Amazon and it arrived today. Unfortunately it is now out of stock as well lol. I also ordered some gaskets from California Ebike which arrived today as well.

Here's a before picture:
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As you can see, there's a pretty small amount of yellow grease in there. A bit of it has been pushed to the sides around the gears, which naturally will happen because of physics of gear meshing. I pulled the two gearsets on the right out (they literally just lift straight out with a little bit of wiggling, the bearings on the underside are a slip fit into the housing) and cleaned them extremely well with isopropyl alcohol, shop towels, and some patience. There's actually quite a bit of wear on the helical motor drive pinion, which is unfortunate because this motor has less than 500 miles on it. Hoping this new grease job helps to prolong the life of it.

After lubing everything up pretty well and putting it back together, here's an after picture:
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I did not go as far as that one guy on YouTube that absolutely jam-packed his motor with grease to the point it was practically overflowing, but I did apply it pretty liberally since there's so much room for grease to spill out around the sides of the gear teeth. The gear on the bottom right is the one that meshes with the motor output pinion, so I packed more around that one.

Unfortunately when I pulled the motor apart I noticed that one of the beige female connectors on the Innotrace controller board had broken, the part where the white wire connector snaps in place. I used some Gorilla glue and a tweezers to glue it back in place and will be reassembling everything tomorrow so the glue has time to cure. I assume this would qualify as a warranty issue, but this was quicker than shipping my motor back and hopefully it will work!

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Will update tomorrow once I get some ride time in! Hoping for some reduced motor volume, but that's a lot of spinning metal so I'm not really anticipating a huge improvement.
 
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I was under the impression that greasing was part of the Innotrace upgrade but I guess that was dropped.
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What about Mobilgrease 28? Do they have that in stock?
That one is still in stock on Amazon, but it was apparently superseded by Mobilith SHC 100 which is why I tried to get the most modern thing I could. Mobilgrease 28 carries a military spec (MIL-PRF-81322) so if you want some you better get on it before it's all bought up! I recall it being used on several assemblies at my previous job.

I was under the impression that greasing was part of the Innotrace upgrade but I guess that was dropped.
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Hmm, there wasn't a ton of grease in there and it wasn't red/blue/green like most high quality synthetic lithium greases so I'm glad I did this anyways.
 
Why so much grease? You only need it on the gear teeth, and then just a little. It'll be a mess the next time you take it apart. Putting grease on the outside of bearings is just wasted grease.
 
Update after some riding time, in lower power modes the motor has quieted down considerably which is exactly what I was hoping for!

Higher power not much change. It feels better in the way your car engine feels after a fresh oil change. Lol.

Bad news though, my high gear chain skipping is back real bad. Either that gear on my cassette wore down or something is up with my derailleur.
Why so much grease? You only need it on the gear teeth, and then just a little. It'll be a mess the next time you take it apart. Putting grease on the outside of bearings is just wasted grease.
Yeah most of it gets pushed out of the gear teeth anyways. If this motor case were designed with more grease ingress protection for the controller, I'd have used a thinner flowing grease. I don't mind cleaning the grease next time and I'd rather there be slightly too much than too little.
 
Did you torque the screws to a certain number when putting it back together? Be good to know, have it all in one thread...
 
High gear skipping is most often due to cassette wear and will require replacing either the cassette or, if available the two smallest cogs. The problem is that the smallest cogs (highest gears) on the cassette only hold the chain with a few teeth, and thus are subject to frictional wear more than the larger cogs. The "valleys" between the teeth get deeper and the teeth get thinner causing the chain to skip.

Replacement cogs are available for many of the higher end Shimano cassettes which enables one to get more life out of as cassette without having to replace the whole assembly.
 
Did you torque the screws to a certain number when putting it back together? Be good to know, have it all in one thread...
I did, I torqued the case bolts to 5 Nm (3.7 lb-ft or 44 lb-in). I didn't find a specific value anywhere, but this felt like a decent conservative number considering the case is aluminum.
High gear skipping is most often due to cassette wear and will require replacing either the cassette or, if available the two smallest cogs. The problem is that the smallest cogs (highest gears) on the cassette only hold the chain with a few teeth, and thus are subject to frictional wear more than the larger cogs. The "valleys" between the teeth get deeper and the teeth get thinner causing the chain to skip.

Replacement cogs are available for many of the higher end Shimano cassettes which enables one to get more life out of as cassette without having to replace the whole assembly.
Yeah I've been looking for replacement Sunrace cogs but I have not been able to find them. I've reached out to WW again because I know they started making some configuration changes to the drivetrain (possibly a smaller front chainring and a different cassette). The Garbaruk cage I'm using is designed for a maximum 50T cog and my cassette is the 11-51T, so when I adjust the B screw to the point where I'm not having skipping issues on the 11T, it clashes with the 51T. I'll probably try and get an 11-50T or 11-46T to replace it. @Lsthrz replaced his derailleur with an M8130 (Shimano Linkglide) which is designed for a wider range and higher torque applications. I might do that as well considering they're available in the US now.
 
Yeah I've been looking for replacement Sunrace cogs offbut I have not been able to find them. I've reached out to WW again because I know they started making some configuration changes to the drivetrain (possibly a smaller front chainring and a different cassette). The Garbaruk cage I'm using is designed for a maximum 50T cog and my cassette is the 11-51T, so when I adjust the B screw to the point where I'm not having skipping issues on the 11T, it clashes with the 51T. I'll probably try and get an 11-50T or 11-46T to replace it. @Lsthrz replaced his derailleur with an M8130 (Shimano Linkglide) which is designed for a wider range and higher torque applications. I might do that as well considering they're available in the US now.
The Wolf Tooth Goat Link may offer you a solution for putting wider range cassette on your 11 speed Shimano setup. it is a short extension of your derailleur hanger that allows it to accommodate a larger low gear cog.

 
The Wolf Tooth Goat Link may offer you a solution for putting wider range cassette on your 11 speed Shimano setup. it is a short extension of your derailleur hanger that allows it to accommodate a larger low gear cog.

Looks like the M8000 derailleur comes with something similar as standard (or the guys at WW added it), think it would replace that black horizontal link there?
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I think everything you have there stays and the goat link goes between the derailleur hanger (black piece hanging off the axle socket) and the derailleur.

Here is Wolf Tooth's page with installation instructions - step by step instructions with lots of pictures.

 
I think everything you have there stays and the goat link goes between the derailleur hanger (black piece hanging off the axle socket) and the derailleur.

Here is Wolf Tooth's page with installation instructions - step by step instructions with lots of pictures.

Yeah I was looking at their installation page, I took a closer look and realized their earlier pictures had a black link similar to the one on my bike, and theirs looks like it is designed to replace that. Worth a shot at only $30 before my impatience with WW support gets ahold of me and I buy an M8130 lol.

Why is it so expensive?

Derailleur extenders are all over AliExpress. I bought three of them and there all working fine so far.
I'm seeing cheap ones on Amazon with mediocre reviews. The Wolftooth has a few reviews on there as well, mixed.
 
I have the Wolf Tooth road link on my Santa Cruz Stigmata CC gravel bike and it worked from the initial install with no further adjustments. . I don't get why someone would want a cheap, Chinese knock off when the tried and true original is only $30. The month long wait alone makes it not worth whatever savings there is.
 
I have the Wolf Tooth road link on my Santa Cruz Stigmata CC gravel bike and it worked from the initial install with no further adjustments. . I don't get why someone would want a cheap, Chinese knock off when the tried and true original is only $30. The month long wait alone makes it not worth whatever savings there is.
I ordered the Goat Link 11, should be here Wednesday! Unfortunately it'll be raining all week so I won't get much testing time in lol.

I still think I'm going to need a new cassette, unfortunately, and that's probably just from the increased wear of having an improperly configured drivetrain over the few hundred miles I've had this bike. Hoping WW comes through and ships me a new one.
 
To minimize cassette wear, I never let my chain get more than .5% wear on it. Most guidelines set .75 as the replacement mark but to keep the cassette from excessive early wear, I find that .5% makes for longer cassette life. For the most accurate measurement of chain wear use the Park tool CC4
s-l1600.jpg


Also I am kind of fanatical about cleaning the chain and cassette with my ultrasonic cleaner and using Muckoff dry ceramic lube, even though I live in Bellingham, a place at least as rainy as your home town.
 
To minimize cassette wear, I never let my chain get more than .5% wear on it. Most guidelines set .75 as the replacement mark but to keep the cassette from excessive early wear, I find that .5% makes for longer cassette life. For the most accurate measurement of chain wear use the Park tool CC4
s-l1600.jpg


Also I am kind of fanatical about cleaning the chain and cassette with my ultrasonic cleaner and using Muckoff dry ceramic lube, even though I live in Bellingham, a place at least as rainy as your home town.
I'm considering getting the Park Tool chain cleaner because it definitely gets dirty after just a single ride! Bellingham is even rainier than Seattle, having lived there for 5 years in college I felt like I was always wet walking to campus. Have you been able to ride your e-bikes around the trails there without any issues? I'm betting Galbraith is probably full of pedal-only gatekeepers.
 
It may say Innotrace on your controller but my active thinking convinced me that you got a knock off controller. German electronics does not fall apart that easy.
Not sure who would be producing knockoffs of something like this for such a limited market... if you look at the design of the connector socket, it's not very robust. It's probably stronger now that I've glued it lol.

My engineering background tells me that the latch should be on the side with more support material, seems like a pretty basic design flaw to me.
 
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WW has confirmed shipment of a new cassette and chain, so I'll be excited to put those on when they arrive. Today the Goat Link arrives so I'll install that, do some more derailleur adjustment, and take it for a test ride.
 
If you can live with 46T, Microshift makes an 11-46T that is pinned-together hardened steel (1 piece cogs no spider) which is tailor-made to a hi power mid. The 1-piece steel cluster distributes the force of the mid across the entire cassette body and minimizes the digging-in that you get with a cassette with replaceable cogs. It runs $36 at Jenson USA. The same on Amazon.


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m@Roberston, if our derailleur/shifter is for an 11sp how does this 9sp cassette work? I like the price and would be fine with 9 speeds.
 
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