Motor Maintenance

m@Roberston, if our derailleur/shifter is for an 11sp how does this 9sp cassette work? I like the price and would be fine with 9 speeds.
You would need a 9 speed shifter (the shifter does the actual indexing of the cable movements). It appears Microshift does make 11 speed all steel cassettes, I'm looking for a place to buy them now.


Edit: Can't find it anywhere, it appears to be discontinued
 
Oh and an update from yesterday:

I installed the Goat Link, tried out Sport mode in the highest gear, and promptly felt/heard it slipping even in my level 1 which I have tuned to 1000 watts. I took a look at the cog itself and the tips of the teeth were shiny as if they had been freshly fractured, so I guess this cassette is toast.

I did have an issue a couple weeks back where I was out at a local park riding singletrack and suddenly the derailleur cage was clashing in all of my gears, indicating the B screw somehow rattled out of adjustment or something like that. I spent a few minutes with a stranger helping me adjust the derailleur until I got everything working again - it was after this point that I noticed there was an issue with the smallest cog.

Another fun update... the cheapo Suntour Raidon fork that shipped on my bike has a broken compression adjuster so I can't firm it up for climbing or street riding. WW told me to reach out to Suntour for warranty support on that, but to be honest it's only a 100mm travel $200 fork and it is NOT keeping up with my trail riding. They offered me upgrade pricing (50% off) on the DVO Diamond E2 (E2 is the e-bike specific version of the D2, which is a $700 fork) which finally arrived at their shop from the supplier. I know it's technically what I originally specified/ordered on my bike, but I figured this is the best deal I'm going to get, so I ordered the new fork and it should be here next week.
 
Level 1 is tuned to 1,000 watts? That is your lowest level of assist and the power just goes up from there? If that is correct your chain will become deeply worn in very few miles, your cassettes will wear out fast as well, your front chain ring will not last very long either and your battery range will just suck. Bike drive trains are designed to work with the best effort of a fit human driving them. Add the effort of an electric motor and their functional life is reduced. Put too much power to it and the components will wear out in a hurry, if not just plain fail.

Do you know the associated torque values produced by your motor at 1,000 watts?
 
Level 1 is tuned to 1,000 watts? That is your lowest level of assist and the power just goes up from there? If that is correct your chain will become deeply worn in very few miles, your cassettes will wear out fast as well, your front chain ring will not last very long either and your battery range will just suck. Bike drive trains are designed to work with the best effort of a fit human driving them. Add the effort of an electric motor and their functional life is reduced. Put too much power to it and the components will wear out in a hurry, if not just plain fail.

Do you know the associated torque values produced by your motor at 1,000 watts?
That's in sport mode. I have a very conservative ECO tune applied because I've been riding mainly singletrack and too much power is extremely dangerous, 500 watts feels like too much on techy trails so I stick to level 1 and 2 which are listed below, sometimes 3 for climbing smooth trails. I hardly ever use sport mode unless I'm cruising fast on road or up hills on road, which usually involves the highest 3 or so gears on the cassette. It's pretty clear a bicycle drivetrain is not designed for the absurd amounts of power these motors put out, otherwise there wouldn't be so many of us complaining about chain skipping and premature drivetrain wear lol. The manufacturers most likely have calculated the 95th percentile (that is what we used in ergonomics and the automotive design work I did in my engineering program) human leg strength and have based their design decisions and simulations off of that, then applied a factor of safety.

In ECO I have it tuned to the following:
  • Level 1: 130 watts, 20 mph
  • Level 2: 250 watts, 20 mph
  • Level 3: 500 watts, 20 mph
  • Level 4: 750 watts, 28 mph (legal limit for class 2/3 ebikes)
  • Level 5: 750 watts, 28 mph with a more sensitive torque sensor
Sport (speed unlimited for all sport modes):
  • Level 1: 1000 watts
  • Level 2: 1250 watts
  • Level 3: 1500 watts
  • Level 4: 2000 watts
  • Level 5: 2300 watts
 
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Is issues only with smallest cogs on chainring?

I use 750-1250watts a bunch offroad climbing, but that's not with smallest cogs. And on street I generally always am using 1000 watts.. but I have 15-21mph speed limit.. so again not in smallest cogs. -- Motor helps get me up to speed from a stop, but then I do majority of work to maintain speed on street.

Also replacing chain right now, its lasted 1100 miles.. which seems reasonble to me. I did order a CN-E8000-11 to see if it lasts any longer.

Anyways point is doesn't seem like power is the problem.. its like power with smallest cogs that causes issues? Wonder if its best just to try to avoid that. Maybe like instead of a 9 speed 11-46T better would be a 11 speed 11-51T with a bigger chainring and just don't use the 2 smallest cogs, pretend its a 15-51T. Though probably couldn't get a big enough chainring for it to really be equivalent.
 
Is issues only with smallest cogs on chainring?

I use 750-1250watts a bunch offroad climbing, but that's not with smallest cogs. And on street I generally always am using 1000 watts.. but I have 15-21mph speed limit.. so again not in smallest cogs. -- Motor helps get me up to speed from a stop, but then I do majority of work to maintain speed on street.

Also replacing chain right now, its lasted 1100 miles.. which seems reasonble to me. I did order a CN-E8000-11 to see if it lasts any longer.

Anyways point is doesn't seem like power is the problem.. its like power with smallest cogs that causes issues? Wonder if its best just to try to avoid that. Maybe like instead of a 9 speed 11-46T better would be a 11 speed 11-51T with a bigger chainring and just don't use the 2 smallest cogs, pretend its a 15-51T. Though probably couldn't get a big enough chainring for it to really be equivalent.
Yeah only with the smallest 11T cog, the other smallest ones generally seem to be okay after installing the Garbaruk derailleur cage and spacing out the chainring. I tend to ride on the street with the 28mph or unlimited speed because I like to keep up with the 25mph speed limit on the lightly trafficked roads I'm riding on.

My chain and cassette are arriving early today so I'll be installing those as well as the Tannus armor I've had sitting around.

Power is definitely the problem with the smallest cogs, it's such a small amount of metal you're pumping 1000-2300 watts through on the 11T cog, it really helps to have the chain wrapped as tightly around that cog as possible in order to prevent issues. Anything bigger than the 11T cog really doesn't keep up with my pedal cadence with the 42T chainring, I looked into going with a bigger chainring but I already have issues high centering on logs and stuff lol.
 
Installed my Tannus armor that has been sitting around (what a pain) and my new cassette + chain this weekend! WW actually sent me a Shimano CSM7000 SLX 11-40T cassette which I'm not so sure on, I'll take it for a ride but 40T seems like it won't provide enough torque when climbing without assist. I am pretty sure I can just use the smaller cogs from the Shimano cassette with the rest from the Sunrace cassette, I may try that this week once my new fork arrives.

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Also finally got my MT5e brake levers installed, the connectors were tucked away coiled up inside the frame above the upper battery cradle. I had to fish them out through the frame cable management holes using some copper wire and electrical tape, then I grabbed the connectors with a needle nose and pulled them through. I had to remove one of the aluminum cable guides that the dropper post ran through and cut a notch in the side using a coping saw, because the HIGO connectors are too big to fit through. This is what WW did on the other side. The brake levers worked right away which is awesome! Spent a bunch of time cable managing and everything looks pretty clean. Might wrap it in fabric or plastic wire wrap to clean it up a little more.

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Installed my Tannus armor that has been sitting around (what a pain) and my new cassette + chain this weekend! WW actually sent me a Shimano CSM7000 SLX 11-40T cassette which I'm not so sure on, I'll take it for a ride but 40T seems like it won't provide enough torque when climbing without assist. I am pretty sure I can just use the smaller cogs from the Shimano cassette with the rest from the Sunrace cassette, I may try that this week once my new fork arrives.

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Also finally got my MT5e brake levers installed, the connectors were tucked away coiled up inside the frame above the upper battery cradle. I had to fish them out through the frame cable management holes using some copper wire and electrical tape, then I grabbed the connectors with a needle nose and pulled them through. I had to remove one of the aluminum cable guides that the dropper post ran through and cut a notch in the side using a coping saw, because the HIGO connectors are too big to fit through. This is what WW did on the other side. The brake levers worked right away which is awesome! Spent a bunch of time cable managing and everything looks pretty clean. Might wrap it in fabric or plastic wire wrap to clean it up a little more.

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What levers did you have ?
 
What levers did you have ?
I had the regular MT5 levers without ebike switches. I was told this was because of supply chain issues.

So I test rode my bike out in a small park near my house, the 40T large cog is unacceptably not enough for even short climbs up steep sections with and without the motor. So I made a custom cassette lol. The spacing is identical between the Sunrace and Shimano cassettes (otherwise they wouldn't shift properly) so I just took the last 3 cogs from the Shimano and put them on with the rest of my old Sunrace since these were the most worn out. I'm just going to buy a few spare 11T cogs from here: https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=9651.

The Goat Link and Garbaruk cage have expanded the range on this shifter to the point where I can adjust my B screw to work with both the 11T and 51T cogs with no gear slipping in high gear. At the point where I start losing chain tension (the maximum pulley closeness before the b screw adjustment starts loosening the chain) it has no problems shifting. Also worked on some better cable management!

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Just need to get it installed now, waiting on some magnetic vise jaw covers, a star nut, and star nut setter tool so I can cut the fork to length and get it mounted on the bike. This DVO Diamond E2 (ebike specific) is massively higher quality, stiffer, beefier, and much better looking than the Suntour. I can't believe my $6k+ bike came with a $200 fork on it lol.

Won't get a chance to mount/test ride it until next week. The LBS I took it to was booked out until June and wanted $200 in labor, so I just bought a few tools to remove/install the crown race, cut the fork, and install the star nut myself. It's really not that complicated and I only spent like $60 on tools I'll have forever. Plenty of DIY videos online show how to remove, install, and measure the length correctly.
 
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View attachment 123149

Just need to get it installed now, waiting on some magnetic vise jaw covers, a star nut, and star nut setter tool so I can cut the fork to length and get it mounted on the bike. This DVO Diamond E2 (ebike specific) is massively higher quality, stiffer, beefier, and much better looking than the Suntour. I can't believe my $6k+ bike came with a $200 fork on it lol.

Won't get a chance to mount/test ride it until next week. The LBS I took it to was booked out until June and wanted $200 in labor, so I just bought a few tools to remove/install the crown race, cut the fork, and install the star nut myself. It's really not that complicated and I only spent like $60 on tools I'll have forever. Plenty of DIY videos online show how to remove, install, and measure the length correctly.
Totally in for a review of the E2. Have the parts and will be upgrading my Yari to Lyric Ultimate spec (damper and air spring replacement), but keep looking at DVO forks, and it's not entirely clear how a form like the E2 compares to e.g. the Onyx SC D1 etc..

I can easily flex the Yari (35mm stanchions) forks, although some of my thinking may well be carryover from motorcycles (whose forks will also flex some), so not entirely sure where the 'sweet spot' on fork/stanchion rigidity is vs the typical market of 'bigger, bigger, bigger' etc.
 
Totally in for a review of the E2. Have the parts and will be upgrading my Yari to Lyric Ultimate spec (damper and air spring replacement), but keep looking at DVO forks, and it's not entirely clear how a form like the E2 compares to e.g. the Onyx SC D1 etc..

I can easily flex the Yari (35mm stanchions) forks, although some of my thinking may well be carryover from motorcycles (whose forks will also flex some), so not entirely sure where the 'sweet spot' on fork/stanchion rigidity is vs the typical market of 'bigger, bigger, bigger' etc.
I'm not the most well versed in riding dynamics since I literally just started riding trail/downhill in the last month or so, but once it's mounted I'll for sure give an update. I can flex the Suntour fork as well (32mm stanchions), it's especially apparent with abrupt front brake applications.

The D1/E1 is the higher end Diamond model with external OTT (off the top) adjustability and low/high speed compression adjustability, whereas the D2/E2 has internal OTT and just single-adjustable compression. Their OTT system apparently provides some sensitivity and comfort at the top of the travel which I'm excited about. The Suntour was pretty rough and chattery, and since it only had 100mm of travel I couldn't set it to be very plush without bottoming out.

I have had some issues with arm/hand soreness and I'm hoping the DVO will help, though I was talking to the guy at the LBS today and he suggested I move my controls out of the way of the grips so that I don't lean into the heels of my thumbs so much as I'm controlling the bars. I'll probably adjust the brake levers as well so I can reach them with my index/middle fingers while my thumb is wrapped around the grips. Might have to shorten my bars too. My thumbs have been in a considerable amount of pain for a couple of weeks so I definitely know I need to make some adjustments.
 
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Won't get a chance to mount/test ride it until next week. The LBS I took it to was booked out until June and wanted $200 in labor, so I just bought a few tools to remove/install the crown race, cut the fork, and install the star nut myself. It's really not that complicated and I only spent like $60 on tools I'll have forever. Plenty of DIY videos online show how to remove, install, and measure the length correctly.
I like the way you think. Two things I have never hesitated to buy....books and tools.
 
I'm not the most well versed in riding dynamics since I literally just started riding trail/downhill in the last month or so, but once it's mounted I'll for sure give an update. I can flex the Suntour fork as well (32mm stanchions), it's especially apparent with abrupt front brake applications.

The D1/E1 is the higher end Diamond model with external OTT (off the top) adjustability and low/high speed compression adjustability, whereas the D2/E2 has internal OTT and just single-adjustable compression. Their OTT system apparently provides some sensitivity and comfort at the top of the travel which I'm excited about. The Suntour was pretty rough and chattery, and since it only had 100mm of travel I couldn't set it to be very plush without bottoming out.

I have had some issues with arm/hand soreness and I'm hoping the DVO will help, though I was talking to the guy at the LBS today and he suggested I move my controls out of the way of the grips so that I don't lean into the heels of my thumbs so much as I'm controlling the bars. I'll probably adjust the brake levers as well so I can reach them with my index/middle fingers while my thumb is wrapped around the grips. Might have to shorten my bars too. My thumbs have been in a considerable amount of pain for a couple of weeks so I definitely know I need to make some adjustments.
Thx, so D2/E2 have OTT but internally adjusted only?

And yeah - lol, ergonomics apply everywhere. had a pinched nerve from a marathon coding session decades ago (like 72 hours no sleep), learned all about them since. Still somewhat tweaking my bike bar ergos but tons of changes since out of box.
 
@kwseattle Northeast Seattle Tool Library has a bike shack with tools and all the fun stuff like spools of cable & housing, though I'm not sure if they've switched back to normal operation from covid precautions. There's another place that lets you rent out a 'bay' with all the tools and equipment and do all your own work, I don't recall what the name was though... Doing the service on my Mastodon Pro was pretty easy at home with the right tools but kind of scary when I was replacing the mid/rebound damper piston valve with a custom one from Shockcraft. Changing travel was cake though and can be done without dripping fluid anywhere! I have a Rockshox Gold 30 on my hub drive ebike and it was a big improvement over the Suntour coil sprung fork, but a higher end fork is that much more of an improvement! I've got a DVO Topaz T3 on the rear, both the guys at Manitou and DVO have been helpful when I messaged them for a good starting point for shim stack/volume spacers for tuning to my setup & preference. I never needed to do a deep dive into the DVO fork compatability or upgrades, but if they're like Manitou forks then you may be able to swap an OTT cartridge into them. With the Mastodon I could switch the IVA volume spacer in the air spring with the IRT second air chamber, and then I can switch the MC2 cartridge with interally adjustable hydraulic bottom out for an externally adjusted HBO - just unsure if they have a compatible part that would give me high & low speed rebound damping control, but honestly I don't think I need it with the 2 separate air chambers and HSC/LSC + rebound damping ajustment.

If you like doing your own service, Shockcraft has all the charts for correct fluids for different forks/brands and their OEM fluids - if DVO uses Motorex you can get the right stuff from Chaparral Motor Sports in larger quantities and cheaper than the DVO/Manitou/Rockshox branded stuff.
 
Thx, so D2/E2 have OTT but internally adjusted only?

And yeah - lol, ergonomics apply everywhere. had a pinched nerve from a marathon coding session decades ago (like 72 hours no sleep), learned all about them since. Still somewhat tweaking my bike bar ergos but tons of changes since out of box.
Yep OTT internally only.

@kwseattle Northeast Seattle Tool Library has a bike shack with tools and all the fun stuff like spools of cable & housing, though I'm not sure if they've switched back to normal operation from covid precautions. There's another place that lets you rent out a 'bay' with all the tools and equipment and do all your own work, I don't recall what the name was though... Doing the service on my Mastodon Pro was pretty easy at home with the right tools but kind of scary when I was replacing the mid/rebound damper piston valve with a custom one from Shockcraft. Changing travel was cake though and can be done without dripping fluid anywhere! I have a Rockshox Gold 30 on my hub drive ebike and it was a big improvement over the Suntour coil sprung fork, but a higher end fork is that much more of an improvement! I've got a DVO Topaz T3 on the rear, both the guys at Manitou and DVO have been helpful when I messaged them for a good starting point for shim stack/volume spacers for tuning to my setup & preference. I never needed to do a deep dive into the DVO fork compatability or upgrades, but if they're like Manitou forks then you may be able to swap an OTT cartridge into them. With the Mastodon I could switch the IVA volume spacer in the air spring with the IRT second air chamber, and then I can switch the MC2 cartridge with interally adjustable hydraulic bottom out for an externally adjusted HBO - just unsure if they have a compatible part that would give me high & low speed rebound damping control, but honestly I don't think I need it with the 2 separate air chambers and HSC/LSC + rebound damping ajustment.

If you like doing your own service, Shockcraft has all the charts for correct fluids for different forks/brands and their OEM fluids - if DVO uses Motorex you can get the right stuff from Chaparral Motor Sports in larger quantities and cheaper than the DVO/Manitou/Rockshox branded stuff.
Yeah I actually looked into the Tool Library but they have odd hours that didn't line up with my impatience LOL. I don't think I'll be taking apart the DVO any time soon until I get some good riding time in and make some adjustments. I'll definitely check out Shockcraft when it comes down to it!

I was going to work on setting up the rebound today but ended up polishing some scratches off my bike (Meguiars M105 and M205 work incredibly well by hand, I also used some 2500 and 3000 grit sandpaper for some deep scratches from getting the bike into my car). I put some more paint protection film on my bike as well where the rear fender is mounted and where I scratched the chainstay.

On Thursday night last week I disassembled the headset on my bike just to see what I would be dealing with. To my surprise, the folks at WW graciously installed a split crown race and an expanding mandrel headset nut, which saved me a HUGE amount of hassle. I was able to cancel my orders for the star nut and star nut tool.

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Here's a comparison shot between the DVO and the Suntour... you can tell how much beefier the DVO is which will suit this bike's weight and my riding style much better.

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I decided to dive right in, I measured my old fork at almost exactly 200mm using some 12" Mitutoyo calipers that I semi-unintentionally permanently borrowed from my last job and marked the new fork. WW had cut the old fork a little bit long (basically no clearance at the top of the stem, all of the guides I've seen online say to cut 3-5mm shorter than the top of the stem), so I marked 2mm shorter to give myself some wiggle room. They also fitted a large stack of spacers so if I truly messed up, I could just remove a spacer.

I used some hose clamps to mark the cut line and clamped the hose clamp screws into my vise, with the fork still in its bag to avoid metal shavings getting on the stanchions. I used a brand new 32tpi hacksaw blade which went pretty quickly but unfortunately the blade drifted INTO the hose clamps so I flipped everything over and started from the other side.

I ended up having to file/sand about 1mm off of the end to get rid of the error from the drifting saw, which brought me to almost exactly 197mm which was perfect and gave me that 3mm recommended clearance from the top of the stem. The expanding headset nut does stick up about 5mm from the top, so the way they installed it from the factory was with another small spacer on top of the stem so that the topcap would fit. Before fitting everything back together I filed the edges of the steer tube and cleaned/greased all of the bearing surfaces with the same Unirex N2 I used in my motor. Here's the whole headset assembly:

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And the new fork installed! Very happy with the color matching the rest of my color scheme with the green grips, pedals, and paint.

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Another angle in the sun:

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First impressions on the DVO (street only): WAY MORE COMFORTABLE. Since I've increased my travel by 60mm I can run much softer than the Suntour, which is awesome for comfort. I'll be taking it to my go to bike park on Tuesday to try it out on the trail.

Oh and since I cut my steer tube a bit shorter, I can fit my custom Cascadian flag topcap now 😁

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One of my brand new Magura e-stop levers stopped working after like 2 rides 😡

Confirmed this by swapping the M620 brake harness wires left to right, and the same issue persisted... so I know it's the switch itself in the lever.

Emailed Starbike (in Germany) where I ordered them from to get some warranty support. Ideally I'd like to order a few of the actual sensors themselves as spares, but I have no idea if that's possible.

Edit: they want me to SHIP THEM BACK to Germany. Unbelievable.

Double edit: Contacted Magura USA directly and they're shipping me a new lever for free which is awesome!
 
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I did, I torqued the case bolts to 5 Nm (3.7 lb-ft or 44 lb-in). I didn't find a specific value anywhere, but this felt like a decent conservative number considering the case is aluminum.

Yeah I've been looking for replacement Sunrace cogs but I have not been able to find them. I've reached out to WW again because I know they started making some configuration changes to the drivetrain (possibly a smaller front chainring and a different cassette). The Garbaruk cage I'm using is designed for a maximum 50T cog and my cassette is the 11-51T, so when I adjust the B screw to the point where I'm not having skipping issues on the 11T, it clashes with the 51T. I'll probably try and get an 11-50T or 11-46T to replace it. @Lsthrz replaced his derailleur with an M8130 (Shimano Linkglide) which is designed for a wider range and higher torque applications. I might do that as well considering they're available in the US now.
There's the prob. The garbaruk and b gap adjustment. I too would love to run the XT derailleur with the M5100 11-51t. ( all steel). Either your not shifting into gear 1 or your chain wrap is a bit low on outer cog. Replacement small cogs are available on Amazon. The linkglide 11s groupset is available in the USA now as of just weeks ago. You really need the entire groupset... you'll just ruin the cassette and chain without specific linkflide indexer and derailleur. Good news is you can get 11-50 or 51 I can't remember. But its.meant for it.
Also KMC e11 (non EPT) and kept clean and waxed with an M7100 cassette and you'll get atleast a thousand miles before chain and cassette give you an ounce of problem.
 
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