Motor Drag on Specialized Vado?

[Thomo]

Hi

First post here. I've a Specialized Vado 2, and when hitting the speed limit (25kmh here in UK) there appears to be a great deal of drag, almost like the motor is applying the brakes (which its obviously not) when switching off assist. Its massively frustrating and makes for a pretty horrible ride.

This seems much more than simply the effect of the motor cutting off the assist and therefore having to pedal the weight of bike without the electric benefit.

Is this something other owners are finding? When the motor assist is switched off, am I then having to drive the motor as well, and therefore this is the drag I'm experiencing?

Appreciate any replies


thanks

T

 

[rich c]

Your exact description has been asked dozens of times. It boils down to riding a very heavy bicycle at speeds higher than usually ridden with traditional bicycles, with possibly different gear ratios than traditional. Highly likely there is nothing wrong.

 

[indianajo]

Exactly one reason I bought a geared hub motor, instead of a mid drive. When I get ahead of the motor (mostly downhill) the one way clutch acts and I'm on my own, not dragging the motor. The only penalty of electricity is 16 lb more than the bike before conversion. Down more extreme rural grades I get up to 35 mph, assisting in middle 8th gear, (42:11) which avoids having to fiddle with the slow reacting front sprocket to get up the next steep hill. I've got 30:32 to grind up the next grade if I run out of battery.
In mid drives, yamaha are reported to have the one-way clutch feature. Perhaps one shimano model. You won't find triple front sprockets on mid-drives I'm afraid.

 

[PaD]

I thought the same when I got my first Vado last year. Suspiciously heavy to pedal without assist.
I took out my old regular bike when the Vado was in for service and thought that something was wrong with it as it was so heavy to pedal. I was used to the powerful Vado motor even if I use Eco mode most of the time.
A Vado is 25lb heavier than many regular bikes and when you go from assist to no assist at speed it can surely be felt. If you’re at a slight decline you may not feel it if you’re in Eco mode.
The Brose motor is said to have no drag and I think that if this wasn’t true it should have revealed by now.

 

[Amazer98]

Thomo, let me assure you that you’re not crazy. As you probably know, here in the US, there is a 20 mph power assist limit on most ebikes, which are so-called Class 1.

I took a ride on my friend’s Cannondale Synapse Neo before I bought my ebike. It was a beautiful bike, but unfortunately too limited- Its 20 mph limit, though faster than that in Europe, was frustrating to deal with. Whenever I bumped into that limit, it was like pedaling through a motor gunked up with honey, molasses, maple syrup... or some other viscous fluid of your choosing.

I decided then and there to buy a Class 3 ebike, which have power assist up to 28 mph, a much more reasonable and enjoyable limit. If I lived in Europe with the 15 mph limits, I wouldn’t be attracted to ebikes.

My perception was that the ebike motors resist additional efforts to power through their limits. The extra weight is also a factor, but the motors also fight you.

I ended up with the Bulls Grinder Evo, Class 3 and fast. It’s a blast, but if it was available only with a 15 mph top speed, I’d pass on buying it with no regrets.

 

[jim6b]

Thomo, let me assure you that you’re not crazy. As you probably know, here in the US, there is a 20 mph power assist limit on most ebikes, which are so-called Class 1.

I took a ride on my friend’s Cannondale Synapse Neo before I bought my ebike. It was a beautiful bike, but unfortunately too limited- Its 20 mph limit, though faster than that in Europe, was frustrating to deal with. Whenever I bumped into that limit, it was like pedaling through a motor gunked up with honey, molasses, maple syrup... or some other viscous fluid of your choosing.

I decided then and there to buy a Class 3 ebike, which have power assist up to 28 mph, a much more reasonable and enjoyable limit. If I lived in Europe with the 15 mph limits, I wouldn’t be attracted to ebikes.

My perception was that the ebike motors resist additional efforts to power through their limits. The extra weight is also a factor, but the motors also fight you.

I ended up with the Bulls Grinder Evo, Class 3 and fast. It’s a blast, but if it was available only with a 15 mph top speed, I’d pass on buying it with no regrets.

But 15.5 is . . . better than 12.5.

 

[Amazer98]

But 15.5 is . . . better than 12.5.

Not sure what you mean, Jim6b. 25 kph = 15 mph, right? ...or were you referring to something else?

 

[jim6b]

Wrong. 25 kph = 15.5 mph. And it's clear 15.5 mph is better than 12.5 mph.

 

[Amazer98]

Well, if we’re gonna split hairs about 1/2 a mph, we should also acknowledge that all these motors start tapering off their power assist at least a full mph less than their class level allows.

But my bigger question is, why are you raising the 12.5 mph number... where did that come from? Of course, 15.5 mph is better than 12.5– it’s also better than 14 or 13 mph (and many other numbers one could submit for consideration).

Or... maybe that was a joke? (It’s easy to miss humor in a post that’s delivered straight-faced!)

Anyway, my only point, humble as it may be, is that 15 or 15.5 mph is kinda pokey.

 

[jim6b]

And obviously, if all ya can do is 12.5, then 15.5 is better.

 

[Amazer98]

And obviously, if all ya can do is 12.5, then 15.5 is better.

Roger that!

 

[PaD]

Thomo, let me assure you that you’re not crazy. As you probably know, here in the US, there is a 20 mph power assist limit on most ebikes, which are so-called Class 1.

I took a ride on my friend’s Cannondale Synapse Neo before I bought my ebike. It was a beautiful bike, but unfortunately too limited- Its 20 mph limit, though faster than that in Europe, was frustrating to deal with. Whenever I bumped into that limit, it was like pedaling through a motor gunked up with honey, molasses, maple syrup... or some other viscous fluid of your choosing.

I decided then and there to buy a Class 3 ebike, which have power assist up to 28 mph, a much more reasonable and enjoyable limit. If I lived in Europe with the 15 mph limits, I wouldn’t be attracted to ebikes.

My perception was that the ebike motors resist additional efforts to power through their limits. The extra weight is also a factor, but the motors also fight you.

I ended up with the Bulls Grinder Evo, Class 3 and fast. It’s a blast, but if it was available only with a 15 mph top speed, I’d pass on buying it with no regrets.

The Cannondale Synapse Neo does not have a Brose motor. The Bosch Active line may have less resistance than the more powerful Bosch motors but I think it still has more resistance than a Brose.
In EU the motors cut off at 15.5mph and we buyers know that and some of us choose e-bikes with Brose motors as they’re said to have no resistance after cut off.
You can buy 45km/h speed pedelecs in EU but the majority of the buyers don’t seem to want to bother with registration and riding regulations etc.
The bikes are heavy and the difference between riding with motor on and motor off can often be very distinct.
I have a Vado with a 1.3 motor and if I ride in Eco mode and there is a slight tailwind or just a little decline I barely notice the motor cutting off at 25km/h. Riding in Sport or Turbo on flat ground you will absolutely feel the motor cutting off.
Still don’t understand why @jim6b brought up the number 12.5mph as nobody has said anything about beeing able to do only 12.5.

 

[Thomo]

Thanks for the replies, at least I know the bikes not at fault.

As I said above it makes for a really frustrating ride, in the UK 25km/h is just way too slow. Both myself and my wife share the bike for fairly regular commuting during decent weather (10 odd miles either way to and from office) and aside from the hills (which its obviously great on), its just not fun to ride on the flats due to the limiter. I'd likely commute on it most days (outside of winter) if this restriction wasn't an issue. However despite this I do prefer commuting on it to using my usual road bike as at least I'm not bathed in sweat when I arrive.

For weekend use I much prefer my regular road bike (which I can average around 30 km/h).

I also do a bit of off-roading and was previously tempted to upgrade my old Stumpjumper to a Turbo Levo, but the Vado has put me off this idea, although whether the 25km/h limit is an issue for the generally slower off-road speeds I'm not sure - probably need to try one.

IMHO if these bikes are going to be adopted by the masses and so eventually more mainstream, this limit issue needs resolving - 25km/h is just too slow. I'd personally prefer to pay some form of insurance to allow a higher top speed. I'm sure there's plenty of discussions on this forum regarding this - I'll go and have read.

T

 

[harryS]

Another forum member here explained the scenario with the Specialized,except he was riding a RadCity at 22 mph. Both have the direct drive motors. When the bike electronics cuts power, you have to overcome the magnet drag on a direct drive motor, and you really feel it at speed, especially when it was not evident prior. If you ramped up to 22 mph with the motor off, you wouldn't notice as the effort is linear.

 

[PaD]

Thanks for the replies, at least I know the bikes not at fault.

As I said above it makes for a really frustrating ride, in the UK 25km/h is just way too slow. Both myself and my wife share the bike for fairly regular commuting during decent weather (10 odd miles either way to and from office) and aside from the hills (which its obviously great on), its just not fun to ride on the flats due to the limiter. I'd likely commute on it most days (outside of winter) if this restriction wasn't an issue. However despite this I do prefer commuting on it to using my usual road bike as at least I'm not bathed in sweat when I arrive.

For weekend use I much prefer my regular road bike (which I can average around 30 km/h).

I also do a bit of off-roading and was previously tempted to upgrade my old Stumpjumper to a Turbo Levo, but the Vado has put me off this idea, although whether the 25km/h limit is an issue for the generally slower off-road speeds I'm not sure - probably need to try one.

IMHO if these bikes are going to be adopted by the masses and so eventually more mainstream, this limit issue needs resolving - 25km/h is just too slow. I'd personally prefer to pay some form of insurance to allow a higher top speed. I'm sure there's plenty of discussions on this forum regarding this - I'll go and have read.

T

Perhaps you can convince your Specialized dealer that you are going to get smaller wheels so they will help you to set wheel circumference to 2000mm. This will make the bike go approx. 10 - 12% faster before motor cut off. It’s not very much but still it makes a noticeable difference for me. I like it.
Your speedo and trip/odo will be just as much off but I don’t think it’s a problem.