mid drives are not for everyone/throttles are fine

[JRA]

I can tell you one instance where a throttle is most useful. I have a GMAC rear hub motor and on my second ride, I was trying to get the PAS assist set up just right. I must have missed a step and didn't notice it at first, because I live at the top of a hill, but I didn't have any power assist with the pedal. Trying to pedal a 65+ lb E-bike is not one of my favorite past times, but I had a throttle. I was able to cruise home uphill and found the missing step. This weekend it's supposed to be warm enough to get out riding again.

I would assume that you pedaled as well?

That is the one thing I don't get is that for some reason it seems that there is alot of support for the fact that if someone has a throttle on their bike it precludes pedaling. While that is possible it is very easy to pedal along in the appropriate gear ratio that complements the motors output. It helps to have a cruise control function though for sure to sett the watt output to complement your desired speed and cadence if one chooses to dispense with the PAS altogether. I'm talking primarily road use here btw. Not trails like this

 

[penserv]

Actually, I don't think you can pedal with a throttle, or if you do, it's only for stability. I used the throttle to get home simply because the PAS wasn't kicking in. But normally I wouldn't use the throttle and just set the PAS at level 2 or 3 (out of 10) and pedal like a normal bike. I also would not attempt a trail like in the photo above. I've got 29" wheels and I've made my bike for mostly paved roads with some gravel, but definitely not off road trails. My bike is comfortable to ride, but it's not nimble. I actually made the bike so I could ride out to the golf course, walk 18 holes and ride home rather than driving. I've never even thought about trails like in that photo. That doesn't even look like fun. My bike might get dirty....

 

[reed scott]

Actually, I don't think you can pedal with a throttle, or if you do, it's only for stability. I used the throttle to get home simply because the PAS wasn't kicking in. But normally I wouldn't use the throttle and just set the PAS at level 2 or 3 (out of 10) and pedal like a normal bike. I also would not attempt a trail like in the photo above. I've got 29" wheels and I've made my bike for mostly paved roads with some gravel, but definitely not off road trails. My bike is comfortable to ride, but it's not nimble. I actually made the bike so I could ride out to the golf course, walk 18 holes and ride home rather than driving. I've never even thought about trails like in that photo. That doesn't even look like fun. My bike might get dirty....

Laughed out loud. Really. I did.

 

[6zfshdb]

Actually, I don't think you can pedal with a throttle, or if you do, it's only for stability. I used the throttle to get home simply because the PAS wasn't kicking in. But normally I wouldn't use the throttle and just set the PAS at level 2 or 3 (out of 10) and pedal like a normal bike.

This depends on the type of controller on the bike. Many, like the ones on my Pedego bikes, have a throttle override function which allows the throttle to work along with whatever PAS setting you are using. It works well for giving the bike a momentary boost without adjusting the PAS.

As @JRA says, the throttle can be quite useful when used with a cruise control to give an infinitely variable PAS. I find this particularly useful to sync speed when riding with a group.

 

[Handlebars]

This depends on the type of controller on the bike. Many, like the ones on my Pedego bikes, have a throttle override function which allows the throttle to work along with whatever PAS setting you are using. It works well for giving the bike a momentary boost without adjusting the PAS.

As @JRA says, the throttle can be quite useful when used with a cruise control to give an infinitely variable PAS. I find this particularly useful to sync speed when riding with a group.

On my bike also, you don't need to pedal when using the throttle. The PAS must be at any of the 1 to 9 levels; throttle does not work at the 0 setting. I forget if it works or not in Walk setting.
Normally from stopped, I might have the PAS at level 3 or 4 or higher, with suitable gear, so that after using throttle and pedals from take off, when I let off throttle, its a smooth transition with more acceleration left as I change gears and PAS levels. I use that method in city traffic.
The initial PAS setting will be different depending on traffic. If it's stop and go traffic between traffic lights then I like to keep up to traffic speed so I'm not getting passed by cars or making drivers angry. If there are no cars I don't need to accelerate as quickly and might use a lower top end speed as well.
It's not much like moped riding, because there's pedaling from the get-go and then pedaling with gear and PAS changes to get up to speed.
In heavy traffic I might set the PAS higher than 3 or 4 from startup and let the motor do more work when I let off throttle, so that I can keep up to traffic speed all the way.
With less traffic, say there's 4 or 5 cars behind me, most often I will pull over to near the curb before stopping, and wave cars past so they can turn right if they are turning, or just get past me so they don't need to pass me later.
The funny part is how hesitant and then careful drivers are to pass me in that situation compared to usual riding when it seems they are more concerned with staying away from other cars and trucks and even lane markings, and come closer at speed than when crawling.

 

[AHicks]

This depends on the type of controller on the bike. Many, like the ones on my Pedego bikes, have a throttle override function which allows the throttle to work along with whatever PAS setting you are using. It works well for giving the bike a momentary boost without adjusting the PAS.

As @JRA says, the throttle can be quite useful when used with a cruise control to give an infinitely variable PAS. I find this particularly useful to sync speed when riding with a group.

From a practical standpoint, this would be very similar to a power based cadence system, which allows a certain amount of power for each PAS level that doesn't change (this vs. the more typical speed based cadence system). Where a throttle w/cruise set up would have the advantage that it could be set at any amount of power and turned on and off with the brake sensors, the power based cadence system would typically just have the standard 5 PAS levels, each with progressively more power, and it would turn on and off with either the brake or cadence sensor. -Al

 

[K PierreR]

I have been around e bikes for quite a while and own a big mid drive fat bike. I have built 10 e bikes, all mid drive bikes. I am not dumb enough to marry any one technology. I am considering building some hub bikes for various riders. Including one for my wife.
Throttles on mid drive bikes feel very unrefined and jerky through the gearing. Hub motors, on the other hand, seem to integrate very well with throttles and traditional gearing bike systems. I think this is why the opinions differ so much.
All of my experience is with gerry's. Throttles are dangerous for gerry's with ADHD whom sit there and fiddle at a stop light while gabbing away and not paying attention. Accidently fiddle with the throttle on a mid drive bike, in low gear and you can find yourself taking you and a few other right out into busy traffic. For that reason, I don't deserve a throttle. I took my throttle off and would not include them on any bike that I built but of course gave the throttle to the new owner if they wanted to put it on. Then I did not feel responsible. About half have put the throttle on and a two swear by them. Took the throttle back off one bike because the rider developed dementia and would take off before the light changed.
Myself, I have put the throttle back on but have it programed at a low power and speed. I use it to get started on a hill. I am now considering going back to what I had originally thought about which was to roll the throttle on the bars until the throttle cannot be pushed very far before it hits the brake but retains its full power should I decide I want it. All I have to do is loosen the set screw and rotate it on the bars.
I have personally found the throttle very useful in a couple of situations. Number one is on very long rides like 75+ miles where my right knee can swell up and I am not done yet. The second situation is in deep snow where the pedals divot in the snow and upset balance. I can better remain upright if I put the pedals horizontal so they don't strike the snow and use throttle. I don't much care for ending up laying in the snow with the bike on top of me. Not enough power presently to power good in deep snow and adding more power means programing instead of moving a set screw.

In the case of my wife, she has multiple orthopedic issues and a near total lack of proprioception. She rides only dead flat bike paths with very rural road crossings. I think a traditional trike with a hub motor and throttle might be a good thing. She can no longer ride a regular bike.

I am also considering a geared hub motor bike for a few of our riders whom just don't seem to adjust to the complexities of a mid drive. For them, having a regular bike plus a throttle would be an easy transition.

 

[AHicks]

I have been around e bikes for quite a while and own a big mid drive fat bike. I have built 10 e bikes, all mid drive bikes. I am not dumb enough to marry any one technology. I am considering building some hub bikes for various riders. Including one for my wife.
Throttles on mid drive bikes feel very unrefined and jerky through the gearing. Hub motors, on the other hand, seem to integrate very well with throttles and traditional gearing bike systems. I think this is why the opinions differ so much.
All of my experience is with gerry's. Throttles are dangerous for gerry's with ADHD whom sit there and fiddle at a stop light while gabbing away and not paying attention. Accidently fiddle with the throttle on a mid drive bike, in low gear and you can find yourself taking you and a few other right out into busy traffic. For that reason, I don't deserve a throttle. I took my throttle off and would not include them on any bike that I built but of course gave the throttle to the new owner if they wanted to put it on. Then I did not feel responsible. About half have put the throttle on and a two swear by them. Took the throttle back off one bike because the rider developed dementia and would take off before the light changed.
Myself, I have put the throttle back on but have it programed at a low power and speed. I use it to get started on a hill. I am now considering going back to what I had originally thought about which was to roll the throttle on the bars until the throttle cannot be pushed very far before it hits the brake but retains its full power should I decide I want it. All I have to do is loosen the set screw and rotate it on the bars.
I have personally found the throttle very useful in a couple of situations. Number one is on very long rides like 75+ miles where my right knee can swell up and I am not done yet. The second situation is in deep snow where the pedals divot in the snow and upset balance. I can better remain upright if I put the pedals horizontal so they don't strike the snow and use throttle. I don't much care for ending up laying in the snow with the bike on top of me. Not enough power presently to power good in deep snow and adding more power means programing instead of moving a set screw.

In the case of my wife, she has multiple orthopedic issues and a near total lack of proprioception. She rides only dead flat bike paths with very rural road crossings. I think a traditional trike with a hub motor and throttle might be a good thing. She can no longer ride a regular bike.

I am also considering a geared hub motor bike for a few of our riders whom just don't seem to adjust to the complexities of a mid drive. For them, having a regular bike plus a throttle would be an easy transition.

The guy whom said that hub motors wear drive trains more than mid drives does not know how hub motors work.

When talking the big Bafang Mid drives, I believe this is a key issue. That tuning is easily done and sets the bike up YOUR way!

 

[fooferdoggie]

I have been around e bikes for quite a while and own a big mid drive fat bike. I have built 10 e bikes, all mid drive bikes. I am not dumb enough to marry any one technology. I am considering building some hub bikes for various riders. Including one for my wife.
Throttles on mid drive bikes feel very unrefined and jerky through the gearing. Hub motors, on the other hand, seem to integrate very well with throttles and traditional gearing bike systems. I think this is why the opinions differ so much.
All of my experience is with gerry's. Throttles are dangerous for gerry's with ADHD whom sit there and fiddle at a stop light while gabbing away and not paying attention. Accidently fiddle with the throttle on a mid drive bike, in low gear and you can find yourself taking you and a few other right out into busy traffic.

I had a dapu mid drive bike with a trottle. at a light I would rest my foot on a pedal and if I did not hold onto the brake I would lurch forward. got me a few times. the bosch motor wont do that.

 

[Taylor57]

Actually, I don't think you can pedal with a throttle, or if you do, it's only for stability. I used the throttle to get home simply because the PAS wasn't kicking in. But normally I wouldn't use the throttle and just set the PAS at level 2 or 3 (out of 10) and pedal like a normal bike. I also would not attempt a trail like in the photo above. I've got 29" wheels and I've made my bike for mostly paved roads with some gravel, but definitely not off road trails. My bike is comfortable to ride, but it's not nimble. I actually made the bike so I could ride out to the golf course, walk 18 holes and ride home rather than driving. I've never even thought about trails like in that photo. That doesn't even look like fun. My bike might get dirty....

I do almost the exact same. Ride to the course and ride 18 holes in a golf cart, then ride home in PAS 3!

 

[penserv]

I might have to ride the front 9 in a cart as well. Very hilly and my knees aren't great for walking on uneven and steep slopes. Great for cycling though. Trying to get a meniscectomy in the COVID era is worse than trying to buy the perfect stock E-bike from a dealer .

 

[Taylor57]

I might have to ride the front 9 in a cart as well. Very hilly and my knees aren't great for walking on uneven and steep slopes. Great for cycling though. Trying to get a meniscectomy in the COVID era is worse than trying to buy the perfect stock E-bike from a dealer .

I tried walking the course recently during a shotgun start and my hole assignment was on the other side of the course. I was toast before I hit my first shot of the day...

 

[Akrotiri]

The guy whom said that hub motors wear drive trains more than mid drives does not know how hub motors work.

Please refrain from personal attacks.

 

[K PierreR]

Please refrain from personal attacks.

That was not a personal attach. I did not name you or call you a fool. You need not have pointed yourself out.

Mid drive e bikes deliver there power through the drive train There is a lot of extra strain on the gears and chain. Hub motor e bikes deliver their power directly to the wheel and do not involve the drive train whatsoever. The drive train is the same as a non e bike. For that reason there is usually far less strain on the gears and chain because the motor takes the work away from the drive train. For this reason, there is far less wear with a hub motor setup.

 

[AHicks]

Please refrain from personal attacks.

Calling somebody out on an "inaccurate" statement is NOT a personal attack. As one that's had a few posts deleted and/or cleaned up recently, I would assume YOU know EXCACTLY what a personal attack looks like.....

 

[Akrotiri]

Enjoy your motorcycles.

 

[JES2020]

if you read through the numerous post on new people asking for suggestions on an ebike, especially if they mention throttle the whole thread turns into throttles suck and you dont need a throttle

Throttles suck is in the same category as the acoustic riders frowning on ALL ebikes !
Small minds think alike

 

[JRA]

I like the ignore feature almost as much as the throttles on my bikes! This ongoing "debate" reminds me of the early days of 29" wheels vs. 26". "Pick a size and be a dick about it"

 

[TheMike]

I agree with you. I am a long-time cyclist but over 65 with health issues. I have both a hub bike with pedal sensor and a Como with torque sensor And mid drive. The hub bike with pedal sensor and throttle is easier to ride. The difference is subtle, but the hub bike gives you a little push. I can modulate to where I do little to no work. On the Como in turbo mode i still have to work. I honestly think that many/most people who are casual cyclists would enjoy the cadence sensor and throttle more. I like both. For my longer rides I prefer the Como. For errands and tooling around the neighborhood I prefer the hub bike with cadence sensor and throttle. I rarely touch the throttle but there are times when it is nice to have.

Casual rider here. I have a question maybe you could help me with. I’m looking to purchase my first ebike and am confused. I’ll be commuting 3.5 miles one way, seasonally, with some light trail/path riding on weekends. Would a rear hub drive bike allow me the flexibility to enjoy biking while, while getting some exercise or would a mid mount with a throttle be the choice? How much difference is there btw cadence and torque sensors?Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Handlebars]

Casual rider here. I have a question maybe you could help me with. I’m looking to purchase my first ebike and am confused. I’ll be commuting 3.5 miles one way, seasonally, with some light trail/path riding on weekends. Would a rear hub drive bike allow me the flexibility to enjoy biking while, while getting some exercise or would a mid mount with a throttle be the choice? How much difference is there btw cadence and torque sensors?Any help would be appreciated.

I love my bike which has rear hub and throttle. It's pretty heavy though, if you need to lift it during commute. So far I have not needed to carry it more than a dozen stairs and I don't want to, with all the extra weight I've added (such as heavy chains and big locks and paniers). It has 26x2.1" tires, best ever handling for my rides in town, now at 6200 km and it looks like they could get another 3000 in before I change them out. However, even for easy easy trail and grass, not at all good and you don't want that with a heavy bike. For your reference, it would be the Rize City Bike under their old name. That means around 80 lbs for mine I guess but say 63 lbs. or thereabout without the extras. The closest thing I've felt to these tires on grass lawn, is riding on snow on grass lawn.
Maybe I'm getting extra sway effects from the weight of chains and stuff in the panniers.