Looking for comments on the Juiced Bikes Rip Current S - Should I purchase or spend more?

[Bruce Arnold]

It's not about 100% quality control or that nothing will ever go wrong. It's about how the company responds when something does go wrong. You can't lead customers to believe that there will be post-sale support and then leave them hanging when that support is needed. The company can either provide robust support to stand behind their product or it can ghost the customer like a crazy ex-girlfriend. There is definitely a pattern of JB customers (not just isolated cases) that have been left hearing crickets. Even if the price is cheap, it becomes a total waste if it becomes a paper-weight bc of some critical malfunction and you can't even get a response from the company.

I've said, over and over for months, that IMO the number one need for Juiced Bikes is to step up their customer service.

Yet all we know for sure is that we have some people with customer service problems. We don't know, out of thousands of bikes sold, how many have had these problems. We also have numerous reports here on EBR of people getting great customer service, yet does that get factored into the discussion when someone complains about the support?

Also, don't gaslight me. Yes, there has been some discussion of customer service in this thread. But the comment I replied to, and the reply you replied to, had to do with complaints about original equipment, not customer service. If you are in a "win this discussion at any cost" or "Juiced Bikes is bad no matter what" mode, then I'm out. I've had a lot of respect for your usually fine and informative remarks, which I'd be sorry to lose.

 

[Asher]

"For example, chips on wheels and torn seat, peeled display, broken stand (now replaced with aftermarket stand), etc. are red flag to a lot of people (general public) in terms of built quality. One of my supervisors were like "ok, this screams CHEAP!" "

Companies choose parts inappropriately all the time. Some ridiculous fraction of cars have active recalls on them. The times I've perused other ebike forums, I've seen problems faced by other owners, even much pricier brands. Isn't Specialized ceasing support for older models or something?

I agree in the broader sense, that cutting a few corners can be hugely self-destructive to the brand. Initially, I thought that Juiced had done that with the CCS. But then I realized they just didn't want to spend money on things that most customers wouldn't even notice (but that a few enthusiasts like us would), in order to keep prices down and/or profits up. I'd have appreciated them putting in a Deore and such and charging $100-200 more, but I realize most customers would not care enough to justify it. I don't know whether to laugh at or scorn people who rave about ebikes that "feel" or "look" like a "real" bike... and then they cost $2-3k more. Like how many people actually give a f*ck that much? Not among current ebike buyers, but say, everyone in America. That's why ebikes have been such a niche until recently.

Plus, I don't find credible what all those friends of yours are saying. People were not buying ebikes because they cost $5k. It's easy to say you want the highest quality until you have to fork over twice as much. We're all elitist connoisseurs in conversation, not so much in practice.

Also, I think this is a holdover of cars. Popular cars are optimized for reliability. With a bike, if you optimized for reliability alone you'd have a tank. And that's what you have in the Netherlands, opafiets. In America, the bikes are daintier but sportier - exposed derailleur, no full chain case, no internally geared hub, generally.

Neither one is wrong, but as you bike, you get comfortable with things being a little off, and doing repairs as needed. Tweaking things every couple hundred miles is part of owning a bike, and any suggested maintenance schedule will do that, unlike a car where beyond washing it, there's almost nothing most people do to care for it.

 

[KAM1952]

Nothing was said to be taken personally. Am definitely trying to stay on-topic. We both agree JB should beef up their customer service. We all have had times when we've received excellent (as well as abysmal) customer support, so we know the joy of being taken care of vs the frustration of being stone-walled. This isn't a win-at-all-costs argument. With the current state of JB customer support, there will be people who lose - like Timpo, unfortunately. But with better customer support, we all win - especially the company itself.

My new display arrived today as promised, warranty item, the screen was starting to streak, and the down button did not work smoothly. I asked to keep my old display so I could continue to use my bike untill the new one arrived and thet let me, I just sent a photo of the streaky display. On reason I bought a Juiced is because my son has one, and he did have several issues, but he were taken care of. His seat post treads stripped, and they send a new post and a BETTER quality seat. It's hard to understand why some people seem to get great service and others no service?

 

[Bruce Arnold]

With all the due respect, I think you're the only one who thinks this is completely acceptable.

When did I say it was acceptable?

You also keep repeating how your bike doesn't have a problem because it's been updated, etc.
But that doesn't change the fact that my bike is having continuous problems and I posted some pictures to show the credibility of my comments.

You're not reading my posts carefully. I'm not saying my bike is updated. I'm saying Juiced has updated the CCA. You have an older one. The older ones needed improvement. Juiced has improved them. Those who bought the older version can either pony up for the improvements or accept that as early adopters they don't have some refinements newer buyers will have. But complaining about problems that have been fixed doesn't "give useful information" to anyone. It's just griping.

But cheaping out on reliability though? I mean, I knew the components were not as high performance, but some people on campus have Haibike MTB with Yamaha mid drive, and he said he rides A LOT and don't have any problems like I do. And I do NOT go offroading with my Juiced.

But you don't have any proof that Juiced cheaped out on reliability. You have one bike with certain problems. We're not hearing those same complaints from lots of other owners. Compare that to when spokes were breaking. Lots of complaints. Obviously it was not just isolated incidents that can be explained by random imperfections in quality control, which cannot be 100% eliminated no matter how good the QC program might be.

Yes, I know I did NOT pay the price and even after considering the repair cost, my bike is a lot cheaper. Although to me, being a student, it was a lot of money. That said, I do accept the "You get what you pay for" factor. But to a lot of people out there, these things are not acceptable and they do get discouraged because of those "minor" issues. Not everyone is exactly a gearhead. One girl who test rode my bike liked the assist, but she didn't like the reliability issues. She said she would rather pay for something high quality for a piece of mind.

But she doesn't know anything about reliability issues. She has one data point.

I'm glad that your bike is working well. I don't wish Juiced any harm and as you said, I know you're not lying and there are happy customers with updated more reliable units. But with my honest review, although I would still pick this bike due to financial reasons, the reliability could have been better.

You wish your bike didn't have the issues it has. I have no problem with that. I sympathize. If it was me, I'd be disappointed too. But I wouldn't talk as though it was established fact that this model of bike has reliability problems. Shucks, I see that the CCS with the 19.4 Ah battery sells for the same price as my CCS with the 17.4 Ah battery. I'd like to have another couple of amp-hours. But it's not a problem with the bike, or how Juiced does business, or anything. It's not a problem at all. It's just the way it is. If you had bought your CCA another few months later, you would have gotten a bike with better spokes, more powerful motor, a better LCD display, a better seat, and a better kickstand. Because Juiced recognizes issues like these and improves on them.

Maybe you could tell people "don't buy an older CCA because you might have problems like I've had," but you can't tell them there are reliability issues when virtually everything you've mentioned has been improved on.

The quick release thing, now, I think we're all agreed that that is just wrong. Could have caused you bodily harm. Glad it didn't.

 

[Bruce Arnold]

It's hard to understand why some people seem to get great service and others no service?

From the limited information we have here on EBR, it's safe to say that most people get great customer service, and some people get poor to none. That's not as good as it could be or should be, but it's not random, if most people are getting good service.

Many of us think it's due to not enough staff to handle it. And I've got to tell you, if I were a customer support rep with too many tickets, I'd give more time to the ones I could take care of easily. 100 happy customers and 20 unhappy customers? It's far from ideal, I'm not making excuses for it, but that's what I'd do.

 

[KAM1952]

From the limited information we have here on EBR, it's safe to say that most people get great customer service, and some people get poor to none. That's not as good as it could be or should be, but it's not random, if most people are getting good service.

Many of us think it's due to not enough staff to handle it. And I've got to tell you, if I were a customer support rep with too many tickets, I'd give more time to the ones I could take care of easily. 100 happy customers and 20 unhappy customers? It's far from ideal, I'm not making excuses for it, but that's what I'd do.

An online forum is not the best place to judge a products customer service...people that post here either love their bikes or hate them... I've bought more than one item from Amazon that some reviewed as bad and was perfectly happy with the product...and if you check other bikes here even the higher priced ones have problems and complaints of lack of customer service. I worked for a large uitility company, we had high CS Reps turnover, and less than optimal customer service...who wants a job listening to complaints all day for minimum wage?

 

[John from Connecticut]

I have a Rip Current S (with19.2 Ah battery) on order. With that being said I have been somewhat concerned of the amount of negative remarks or criticism I have found in regard to the Juiced Bike products. I think a lot of the comments I have come across are from individuals that actually do not own the product, at least that has been my impression. Also, EBR didn't give the Rip Current S much of a thumbs up. So I'm hoping to hear from owners or folks that have been around the bike (friends, etc).

Over all, the Rip Current S seems like a great value for how the bike is equipped so I gravitated to this product. I am wanting a fat tire bike. My budget is up to $3,500.00 but finding a nice fat tire bike for $2K seems appealing.

I live in Central Texas area and will be doing all type of recreational riding such as downtown Austin, out in the country, dirt roads and occasionally some trail riding (not extreme). I live in a hilly area which made me take a look a at the mid drives but the throttle assist and 750w hub drive motor seems like it will be sufficient. I would most likely be a candidate for both a street cruiser and a mountain bike but prefer to have only one (I'm buying my wife an E-bike as well).

Thanks for any comments you may have.

I have never ridden a Juiced Bike so I am not one to speak, but I did just check Courts Review and one the jumped out...
71 pounds ! Yipes ...That would be a deal breaker for me. Also noted the rims aren't punched out to save weight.

 

[NeilCruz]

Regarding spokes - I find I need to check my spokes at least every 2 weeks for tightness. At first I was a bit concerned, but then I realized that I didn't have any issues the first week when I was riding slowly.

I think the combination of the larger payload (me + locks + computer gear + groceries), faster speed (my normal riding speed is now closer to 20mph vs 14-15mph) and that I no longer go super slow over the bumps means more vibration means faster loosing of the spokes.

So every 2 weeks I check the spokes - and find at least one that doesn't "sound" right when I pluck it.. so I then just give is 1/4 or 1/2 turn.


Maybe more expensive vendors do something to keep the spokes tight for longer? On the other hand, I recall a road biker saying they check their bike every 100 miles or so - so I'm doing closer to every 140miles...

Your mileage may vary of course.

Still, my RCS is my primary transportation now instead of Uber/Lyft and their support has been good once your can get a ticket correctly submitted.

 

[CodyDog]

Well I want to follow up with my original posting, I ended up buying the Rad Rover. After 100 miles I am satisfied with the bike. Being my first ebike, it is difficult compare it to others. I am now in the market for a second bike for my wife.

I think both the Rover and the Rip Current S are fine choices. Pedego was the only local fat bike choice I had in my local area. Perhaps the Pedego is a better bike but I took the chance on a lower price with a bigger hub motor and some nice features. Time will tell if I made the right decision. Hopefully one day I'll come across a RCS owner and be able to give the bike a ride.

 

[p0ppyman]

Most of those components have been upgraded at some point. Kickstand, LCD display, seat, all upgraded. Part of the incremental improvement plan that Tora has described.

I don't know about the quick release deal; that's not common on any bike, kinda weird.

Paint chipping? Normal wear and tear IMO; never had a bike (or motorcycle for that matter) that didn't show dings.

I got to say, at 25 miles per day and having a first-generation CCA, a lot of this sounds like normal wear and tear. You could have spent the $5000 @JayOhEn mentioned and still have some of these issues.

BTW, Jay, the CCA is a $1400 bike, not $2000, so he could have bought 3 and have $700 left over.

For comparison, I Googled mountain bikes from $1000 - $1500. The higher end had one or two steps up in components -- Deore instead of Altus, or RockShox instead of Suntour, for instance. Not all that daggone different; you could replace any of these components yourself for not a lot of money, and still have the battery-controller-motor of an ebike at no extra cost.

It's pretty easy to criticize a brand that isn't as good as you thought it would be, until you compare to other bikes in the same range. The CCA is an extraordinary performer at the price, and picking at things that aren't quite up to the quality you had hoped is kinda petty.

Speaking of Tora's plan did he happen to share how he protects the JB brand from knock-off components? Anyone who manufacturer's in China these days knows counterfeits are real problem. I know Specialized runs a effort out of Salt Lake because of sellers in China / Asia that counterfeit their products especially carbon fiber frames. SRAM is also working to shutdown counterfeiters. I'm still researching how Shimano and other OEMs tackle this problem. To police counterfeits costs money which I expect shows up in the price of products I buy that are produced in China. How has Tora managed to avoid the costs of him protecting against counterfeits from impacting his pricing if you know? Or if it does has he shared how much per bike that adds to the cost?

The reality is many brands produce and / or buy components made in China so I expect they all face similar counterfeiting challenges. Just curious how each brand handles that reality and how it shows up in their pricing.

 

[Fran Fabrizio]

Speaking of Tora's plan did he happen to share how he protects the JB brand from knock-off components? Anyone who manufacturer's in China these days knows counterfeits are real problem...How has Tora managed to avoid the costs of him protecting against counterfeits from impacting his pricing if you know?

He spends a lot of his time in China working directly with the design and assembly teams. Not that there couldn't still be issues, but I imagine he has a pretty good handle on the supply chain as a result. He's done some videos from over there that show some of the process.

 

[Asher]

Juiced is a) not a famous, household brand and b) sells direct to consumer.

How would you even sell their counterfeit products?

I bet this is a non issue.

 

[Diarmuid]

Juiced is a) not a famous, household brand and b) sells direct to consumer.

How would you even sell their counterfeit products?

I bet this is a non issue.

Is it conterfeiting if you buy from the same manufacturer in bulk cutting out Juiced Bikes?

https://luyuanvehicle.en.made-in-ch...erior-700c-Lithium-Battery-Electric-Bike.html
https://luyuanvehicle.en.made-in-ch...e-700c-Frame-Intergrated-Lithium-Battery.html
https://luyuanvehicle.en.made-in-ch...ntegrated-Large-Capacity-Lithium-Battery.html
https://luyuanvehicle.en.made-in-ch...sor-Large-Frame-Intergrated-Battery-CCA-.html

 

[Nova Haibike]

I don't know if you would even call it a "counterfeit" if they come from exact same manufacture, made by same factory, made by same people, etc.

It's more like breach of contract.

It is the gray market, or parallel importing. You'd get the same product, but you'll have no warranty.

 

[Tora Harris]

Yes we make some bikes at LY, some at other places and some at a new factory we just built from scratch. We are now launching the Indiegogo campaign: https://igg.me/at/getjuiced for the Scrambler. its one of the most exciting e-bikes styles at the moment doing $200K in the first day. There we open up and posted many informative videos to help people looking from the outside understand the complexity of the industry. This way there is no need to randomly speculate as fun as it might be.

For the counterfeiter..., Chinese dont think in those terms. This is a very western idea. Here in China people think about speed, volume, tooling, supply chain, manufacturing capacity, material cost, profit, access to market, service or no service, etc. Trying to make a brand is just like one avenue to take, its possibly one of the most difficult route to market and slow. Simply having the idea for something is seen as almost completely worthless unfortunately.

As far as preventing people from copying, it is hard if not impossible to stop. What we actually do is to agree it help the "counterfeiters" develop similar products and agree to tackle different parts of the market in a controlled way. Every step of the development process we are thinking about how someone would copy this, whats easy, whats hard.


Once something exist, it cant be made to unexist and if people want the thing, it is going to get made by someone, hopefully it is by folks who put the effort to develop it, but its not always the case....


Here are the videos and can be also found here. https://www.juicedbikes.com/products/scrambler


June 2018 - Scrambler update - Preparation before the launch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnKmqtsVJ30

Scrambler GOES LIVE!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkmEKHxspQA

Indiegogo Campaign Day 1 Recap and Thank you!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnckqES1tIE

Scrambler Update - Securing Frames and Custom Lights
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieYWMZlyKaI

Scrambler Update - Busy Monday in the field
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04wOVjZJM30

 

[Ryno]

Yes we make some bikes at LY, some at other places and some at a new factory we just built from scratch. We are now launching the Indiegogo campaign: https://igg.me/at/getjuiced for the Scrambler. its one of the most exciting e-bikes styles at the moment doing $200K in the first day. There we open up and posted many informative videos to help people looking from the outside understand the complexity of the industry. This way there is no need to randomly speculate as fun as it might be.

For the counterfeiter..., Chinese dont think in those terms. This is a very western idea. Here in China people think about speed, volume, tooling, supply chain, manufacturing capacity, material cost, profit, access to market, service or no service, etc. Trying to make a brand is just like one avenue to take, its possibly one of the most difficult route to market and slow. Simply having the idea for something is seen as almost completely worthless unfortunately.

As far as preventing people from copying, it is hard if not impossible to stop. What we actually do is to agree it help the "counterfeiters" develop similar products and agree to tackle different parts of the market in a controlled way. Every step of the development process we are thinking about how someone would copy this, whats easy, whats hard.


Once something exist, it cant be made to unexist and if people want the thing, it is going to get made by someone, hopefully it is by folks who put the effort to develop it, but its not always the case....


Here are the videos and can be also found here. https://www.juicedbikes.com/products/scrambler


June 2018 - Scrambler update - Preparation before the launch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnKmqtsVJ30

Scrambler GOES LIVE!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkmEKHxspQA

Indiegogo Campaign Day 1 Recap and Thank you!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnckqES1tIE

Scrambler Update - Securing Frames and Custom Lights
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieYWMZlyKaI

Scrambler Update - Busy Monday in the field
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04wOVjZJM30

LOL!!!

 

[Bruce Arnold]

@Tora Harris Enjoyed all the new videos!

 

[Asher]

Interesting links and videos.

The factory listed the CCA at $850 per piece with an order of 10+, while Juiced is selling each for $1000, for now anyway. And Juiced offers service, shipping, etc that's worth way more than the $150 difference, especially all the homework in getting the bikes stateside.

I don't know Juiced's costs, but I doubt that Juiced's unit margins are so fat that you could order a bunch of bikes from the manufacturer and undercut them with an equivalent product (ie including warranty support and shipping).

If you want the best deal, cool, just make sure you don't nickel and dime yourself into losing hundreds of dollars in the process.

 

[Guitartec]

I own a RCS Large with the 52v. Love this bike. I have been charging to 80% and did not re charge after a few days biking to work. On the way home last Friday volts started at 49.5, got down to 43.7 on charger display at home. So way too low for me. Very windy day and got a first class work out. No problem with bike so far, over 400 miles. I just clean bike and oil chain so far. Front disk brake had a few lose bolts that I found. Also the front wheel shifted in the fork after my last crash so fixed that and adjusted the front brake. After swapping out the handle bar, had a throttle error code. Was able to move the throttle over and re-seat connector, all fixed. Biggest problem for me is to stop buying upgrades.

Crazyworld, I have a RCS with 52v battery too. I have a problem that I was wondering if you could help me with... I somehow accidentally deleted my 52v 85% charge profile that came programmed into my Satiator when I got the bike from Juiced. This happened when I was simply trying to edit it from 85% to 80%. The entire profile just pffft! Not sure what I did and I'm definitely no battery guru, so I was wondering if you could look at that particular profile while in edit mode and give me all the parameters to do an 80% charge. I totally understand if you aren't interested in doing this... no problem. Juiced says they're "stumped" when I asked them if they could give me the parameters and Grin has no customer service and has referred me to a web page where I'm supposed to figure it out.... not! Any help from you (or anyone else) is greatly appreciated. Guitartec

 

[Crazyworld]

Crazyworld, I have a RCS with 52v battery too. I have a problem that I was wondering if you could help me with... I somehow accidentally deleted my 52v 85% charge profile that came programmed into my Satiator when I got the bike from Juiced. This happened when I was simply trying to edit it from 85% to 80%. The entire profile just pffft! Not sure what I did and I'm definitely no battery guru, so I was wondering if you could look at that particular profile while in edit mode and give me all the parameters to do an 80% charge. I totally understand if you aren't interested in doing this... no problem. Juiced says they're "stumped" when I asked them if they could give me the parameters and Grin has no customer service and has referred me to a web page where I'm supposed to figure it out.... not! Any help from you (or anyone else) is greatly appreciated. Guitartec

Hello, I have my charger set to 56.6 volts so about 87%. 80% should be 55.4 volts. Here are the different screens for the stock 58.8 volt and 56.6. I also charge at the lower 2 amp mode with the 56.6 volts.