Long Commute - 70 miles round trip for eNoob

[Briansc7]

I've never owned an ebike. I own several human power bikes though. Avid cyclsit on the road mainly. Hammer head - if I'm riding I'm racing. vetran bike commuter from Seattle area relocating to greater LA area.

I want to ditch my car, but I need ehelp to do it. My commute would be 35 miles oneway - yeah I know, phew! but a 35 mile ride is comfortable for me (though not twice each day!) - takes just over 2 hours on my road bike. I need your help! what kind of ebike can help me accomplish my commute on a daily basis? I estimate with ehelp I could get 35 miles down in about 1.5 hours or so (or so = traffic lights, etc). here is a starter criteria list:

- 70 miles round trip, daily
- about 1000 feet elevation change each way
- will have cargo - computer, clothes, etc
- looking for something relatively low maintenance - easy on the drive train
- type 3 (28mph)
- maybe front suspension fork (I'm used to a stiff carbon road bike)
- no drop bars
- big battery (or two?)
- dependability
- oh yeah, I do have to pay for this - ~5k (hey, otherwise I'm buying a Prius ok)
- relative ease to change flats - or a robust flat "proof" tire??
- mid drive, hub, geared, direct, etc???
- no ekits
- I know I'm overlooking somthing(s) here - help please

I've begun the process of looking over the forums for brand reviews and will continue to do so.

If this was your list, which ebike would you choose and why?

Any thoughts/advice/speculations are greatly appreciated.

 

[Chris Hammond]

So my commute is 30 miles each way. Your checklist is nearly identical to mine before I bought. Long story short, I ended up buying a Juiced CrossCurrent S (CCS), the new generation is the CCX. You can search posts by me, I have detailed my experience on this forum.
Long story short, the CCX is hard to beat for power, range, and performance at any price for a prebuilt bike, and impossible at it's $2500 price.
Plan to buy a second charger and keep it at work to recharge, you could make the round trip on a single charge, but it would stress the limits of the battery, and you will not be happy with the performance of the bike as the voltage drops low.
I am at 4000 miles on my bike since May when I bought it. It has been completely reliable. I did convert the tires to tubeless for flat prevention. Like I said search my posts, I have detailled this, and did tons of research before I bought.
Let me know if you have some specific ?'s
Good luck and enjoy your long commute.

 

[Briansc7]

So my commute is 30 miles each way. Your checklist is nearly identical to mine before I bought. Long story short, I ended up buying a Juiced CrossCurrent S (CCS), the new generation is the CCX. You can search posts by me, I have detailed my experience on this forum.
Long story short, the CCX is hard to beat for power, range, and performance at any price for a prebuilt bike, and impossible at it's $2500 price.
Plan to buy a second charger and keep it at work to recharge, you could make the round trip on a single charge, but it would stress the limits of the battery, and you will not be happy with the performance of the bike as the voltage drops low.
I am at 4000 miles on my bike since May when I bought it. It has been completely reliable. I did convert the tires to tubeless for flat prevention. Like I said search my posts, I have detailled this, and did tons of research before I bought.
Let me know if you have some specific ?'s
Good luck and enjoy your long commute.

Its great to hear a success story from a similar commute!! I gotta say, I'm pretty impressed with the specs for the CCX. 52V with 995 Wh, wow, awesome. And I like how the motor has the clutch feature. Yeah, I can see a change in tires, seems like stock tires are typically low grade. And this bike is the lowest price. But how would you handle warranty claims or service? DIY? I'm a pretty capable bike mechanic and general handyman and with youtube, the sky's the limit, so not to worried about DIY. Its just great to hear about the high mileage you've logged with great reliability etc. I'm def going to check this one out!! I'll look over your posts as well, thanks!

 

[Chris Hammond]

Its great to hear a success story from a similar commute!! I gotta say, I'm pretty impressed with the specs for the CCX. 52V with 995 Wh, wow, awesome. And I like how the motor has the clutch feature. Yeah, I can see a change in tires, seems like stock tires are typically low grade. And this bike is the lowest price. But how would you handle warranty claims or service? DIY? I'm a pretty capable bike mechanic and general handyman and with youtube, the sky's the limit, so not to worried about DIY. Its just great to hear about the high mileage you've logged with great reliability etc. I'm def going to check this one out!! I'll look over your posts as well, thanks!

I actually didn't replace the stock tires, I was able to make them work tubeless. I am honestly quite surprised and pleased with their performance. I did have to replace the rear tire at ~3500 miles due to wear, but the front is probably good for another 4000 miles or more based on current wear.
The only warranty claim I have had was a failed rear taillight which Juiced replaced immediately. I am also a very handy DIY guy, so I haven't felt the need to worry about service issues.
Ebikes do need a more aggressive maintenance schedule than a road bike. They are much heavier and faster. Check spoke tension frequently especially in the first couple of months. Check every bolt on initial setup and then retighten every few hundred miles for a month or so. I did have a few here and there that wanted to loosen up, but the only one that has persisted is the kickstand mounting bolts. Found some lock washers over the weekend, hopefully that fixes it.
Otherwise its all basic bike maintenance. Clean and lube regularly.

 

[rich c]

I look at that mileage a year, and start to wonder about the actual cost to operate. 70miles per day x 260 work days a year, equals 18,200 miles per year. Just wondering how many sets of brake pads, brake rotors, chains, tires, and battery packs that will take. That should almost be one new motor per year too. Likely a new saddle fairly often as well. Then, how many years on the frame? Hope your joints are in good shape, wondering how they will be in a couple years? (Being 66, my joints tell me how they feel everyday, especially when a rain is coming!)

 

[Briansc7]

I look at that mileage a year, and start to wonder about the actual cost to operate. 70miles per day x 260 work days a year, equals 18,200 miles per year. Just wondering how many sets of brake pads, brake rotors, chains, tires, and battery packs that will take. That should almost be one new motor per year too. Likely a new saddle fairly often as well. Then, how many years on the frame? Hope your joints are in good shape, wondering how they will be in a couple years? (Being 66, my joints tell me how they feel everyday, especially when a rain is coming!)

Very valid points, that I really dont have a good way to address at this point. I would hope to break even when comparing to purchasing a car and maintaining/operating that, but I have not run any numbers yet. My wife says I should buy a new bike per year (Man I have an awesome wife!!!!). Sweet. so yes, this may not be feasible - but I'm going to give it a go anyway! Or at least I think I am at this point, we'll see.

 

[Chris Hammond]

So mid-drive bikes will likely have a higher maintenance bill with replacing chains, cassettes, and chainrings on a regular basis, but its still cheap relative to driving.
My maintenance cost in bike parts (not including tools, lubricants, etc.) in 4000 miles so far is:
1) Tubeless tire conversion kit - $35
2) New rear tire - $30
3) New brake pads, front and rear - $15

So $80 in 4,000 miles. I will round up and account for expenses not yet incurred and double that to $160 / 4000 miles.
If I keep up my average of ~800 miles / month (it'll drop during winter), but for simplicity sake let's say 10K miles per year;
I will average ~$400 / year in maintenance. Even a new motor and wheel from Juiced is only $329, and I'd be amazed if I needed to replace it in the first couple of years.
I have spent a good bit getting my commuting gear and clothing, but that is far from bike specific.
Find a car that is that cheap to drive and I'll buy it on the spot.

 

[rich c]

Another problem of being in the saddle that much, is the chances of getting hurt could go up. Our son lost his best friend to a bicycle commuting accident in San Francisco. They claimed it was his fault, but bicycle vs car never comes out well. https://www.rftmlaw.com/blog/2014/october/sam-felder-dies-months-after-menlo-park-bicycle-/
Saving money doesn't give his widow and baby much solace . Average cost of operating a car is 60.8 cents per mile. So you will save some money, but part replacement and maintenance will be a part time job. You'll probably have to check it over every Sunday, then clean and lube the chain every week.
Have you considered the air quality? When I see that gridlock around LA, I can't imagine riding a bike anywhere near!

 

[rich c]

Find a car that is that cheap to drive and I'll buy it on the spot.

Our son bought a used Chevy Volt for $14,500 to commute. Local AMOCO transmission shop put in a no cost charging port near his office. He spends $0 on gas to commute. I think he said it cost about $2.25 to charge at his home.

 

[ebikemom]

I would hope to break even when comparing to purchasing a car and maintaining/operating that, but I have not run any numbers yet.

I'm sure you'll do WAY better on cost than owning and running a car!!!

 

[ebikemom]

Boy, @Chris Hammond , I am in awe of your commute. I love riding my bike for an hour or so at a time (2-3 hours total if including a round-trip), but beyond that my, um, posterior gets a bit sore and tired! Do you have a cloud for a bike seat? Do share your secret!!!

 

[rich c]

Boy, @Chris Hammond , I am in awe of your commute. I love riding my bike for an hour or so at a time (2-3 hours total if including a round-trip), but beyond that my, um, posterior gets a bit sore and tired! Do you have a cloud for a bike seat? Do share your secret!!!

Saddle fit is more critical than just more padding in the saddle. Another reason to go to a quality local shop. Speaking of padding, buying cycling clothes with padding in them makes a huge difference.

 

[DaveMatthews]

I'd say 2 batteries might not be required if you keep one charger at work and one at home. Mid drive leaves the rear wheel rather normal for flat repair/tire removal.

 

[Citycrosser]

I have a 35 mile one way commute as well with quite the elevation gain, especially on the way home (~1800' on the way home). I purchased a Magnum Metro+ and it makes the commute on PAS 4 averaging about 20 mph while charging from 80% to 20%. I am pedaling fairly hard and it's a 1.75 hour commute so It's difficult to do the commute on back to back days so I aim for Monday- Wednesday-Friday or Tuesday-Thursday. On the non biking days, I take the train or drive. It's nice to have options. I also charge at the office so I purchased a Luna 48V mini charger to keep at home, with the OEM charger at the office where I can time it to get to 80% or so.

I almost purchased a CCS last Fall when I got the Magnum but the tipping point for me was having a Magnum dealer 1 mile from my office, which has been super helpful with the few warranty issues I've had (upper battery mount failed and broken spoke). However, if I were to do it again, I would have purchased the CCS with the biggest battery they offer. With the CCX now out, that would be my preference and that's what I'd recommend to you, especially since you are a veteran bike commuter and probably pretty comfortable swapping out parts in case something fails.

 

[Bruce Arnold]

eah, I can see a change in tires, seems like stock tires are typically low grade. And this bike is the lowest price.

Schwalbe Marathon Plus tires come stock on the CCX. They are premium tires. I paid extra to put them on my CCS. Some people don't like them; I think they're great. I don't run them at maximum pressure, as I'm sure some do. I find the ride to be much better and the traction to improve in the mid-range of tire pressure for the Marathon Plus. So if you're considering the CCX and you think tires might be an issue, issue no more.

As far as maintenance and service, sounds like you can do most if not all of what needs to be done. 95% of the maintenance is the same as on any bike. As far as ebike specific work, it's all modular; you wouldn't be soldering transistors to circuit boards or anything.

 

[Bruce Arnold]

Very valid points, that I really dont have a good way to address at this point. I would hope to break even when comparing to purchasing a car and maintaining/operating that, but I have not run any numbers yet. My wife says I should buy a new bike per year (Man I have an awesome wife!!!!). Sweet. so yes, this may not be feasible - but I'm going to give it a go anyway! Or at least I think I am at this point, we'll see.

The cost of maintenance and upkeep on our ebikes is way less than the $320/month we were paying on the Optima before we sold it. Figure the fuel, upkeep and maintenance on a car, even if you don't have a payment like we did, and forget breaking even; you're going to be ahead.

 

[Bruce Arnold]

Another problem of being in the saddle that much, is the chances of getting hurt could go up. Our son lost his best friend to a bicycle commuting accident in San Francisco. They claimed it was his fault, but bicycle vs car never comes out well. https://www.rftmlaw.com/blog/2014/october/sam-felder-dies-months-after-menlo-park-bicycle-/
Saving money doesn't give his widow and baby much solace . Average cost of operating a car is 60.8 cents per mile. So you will save some money, but part replacement and maintenance will be a part time job. You'll probably have to check it over every Sunday, then clean and lube the chain every week.
Have you considered the air quality? When I see that gridlock around LA, I can't imagine riding a bike anywhere near!

Rich, you are way over-stating the case. Is there a reason you're trying to talk this guy out of commuting? Or just feeling depressed today?

You know as well as the next guy that people die in automobile accidents too. In 2015, there were 11 automobile deaths per 100,000 populataion. In 2012, the most recent year I could readily find data for, there were 0.26 bicycle fatalities per 100,000. Yeah, that reflects a lot more miles driven than ridden. But it's a huge difference.

You have no data to back up your "maintenance every other Sunday" claim either. One could do this, if one were obsessed. Look at Chris Hammond's actual figures, which tells a different story. Or mine -- I'm coming up on 2,000 miles since getting my CCS in January, and after checking bolts, spokes, etc. upon initial set-up, a tune-up at 500 miles, and keeping a weather eye out for things getting loose (minutes per month, not hours), I'm about to take it in to my LBS for another tune-up. No problems or break-downs whatsoever.

In the meantime, I've saved $320 a month in the cost of a car we no longer need and sold to our daughter, plus gas, oil change, tires, insurance ... It's not "saving some money," it's saving a lot of money. My bike paid for itself after six months of ownership -- seven if you want to count some accessories like the Wald baskets -- and Bonnie's will have paid for itself by June of next year. After that, it's all gravy.

 

[Chris Hammond]

Do you have a cloud for a bike seat? Do share your secret!!!

So I am using the stock saddle that came on my CCS. Making sure you are properly fitted to your bike is a big deal for long term comfort. Most people ride with their saddle height too low for a more upright seated position. This dramatically increases the workload on your legs (leading to fatigue and discomfort), and also puts more bodyweight on your butt and off your arms. Seat angle and setting fore/ aft also matters. Women have pelvic shapes different than men and should find a women's specific saddle that works for them.
Also, there's no substitute for time in the saddle in helping to develop "saddle sores". Like others have said, wearing biking shorts/ underwear that have seat padding makes a big difference. If you don't want the spandex look, several options exist, biking underwear and regular shorts of your choice, biking shorts with athletic shorts over the top, or just get mountain bike style biking shorts that have the padded liner short built into a cargo type short.
If you spend enough time riding, butt pain becomes a non-issue after a while.

 

[highpockets]

So I am using the stock saddle that came on my CCS. Making sure you are properly fitted to your bike is a big deal for long term comfort. Most people ride with their saddle height too low for a more upright seated position. This dramatically increases the workload on your legs (leading to fatigue and discomfort), and also puts more bodyweight on your butt and off your arms. Seat angle and setting fore/ aft also matters. Women have pelvic shapes different than men and should find a women's specific saddle that works for them.
Also, there's no substitute for time in the saddle in helping to develop "saddle sores". Like others have said, wearing biking shorts/ underwear that have seat padding makes a big difference. If you don't want the spandex look, several options exist, biking underwear and regular shorts of your choice, biking shorts with athletic shorts over the top, or just get mountain bike style biking shorts that have the padded liner short built into a cargo type short.
If you spend enough time riding, butt pain becomes a non-issue after a while.

If you are using the stock saddle you are a LOT thougher than I am. At least in one area. My hats off to you. You wear yours out and I will mail you mine for free. And I must say, it is like new!

 

[rich c]

Rich, you are way over-stating the case. Is there a reason you're trying to talk this guy out of commuting? Or just feeling depressed today?

You know as well as the next guy that people die in automobile accidents too. In 2015, there were 11 automobile deaths per 100,000 populataion. In 2012, the most recent year I could readily find data for, there were 0.26 bicycle fatalities per 100,000. Yeah, that reflects a lot more miles driven than ridden. But it's a huge difference.

You have no data to back up your "maintenance every other Sunday" claim either. One could do this, if one were obsessed. Look at Chris Hammond's actual figures, which tells a different story. Or mine -- I'm coming up on 2,000 miles since getting my CCS in January, and after checking bolts, spokes, etc. upon initial set-up, a tune-up at 500 miles, and keeping a weather eye out for things getting loose (minutes per month, not hours), I'm about to take it in to my LBS for another tune-up. No problems or break-downs whatsoever.

In the meantime, I've saved $320 a month in the cost of a car we no longer need and sold to our daughter, plus gas, oil change, tires, insurance ... It's not "saving some money," it's saving a lot of money. My bike paid for itself after six months of ownership -- seven if you want to count some accessories like the Wald baskets -- and Bonnie's will have paid for itself by June of next year. After that, it's all gravy.

Bruce, Your 2,000 miles in 9 months can't be compared to someone doing the same distance in 6 weeks. Maybe I take too much care on my chain, but still going to replace the chain on my 2 bikes at 2,500 miles. That would be every 7 weeks for the OP. I do check bolts, pedals, cranks, etc about every other month. That's about every 500 miles. That's about every 7 days for the OP. Just relaying my family experience, and my maintenance schedule to the OP's request for "Any thoughts/advice/speculations are greatly appreciated." Statistics mean nothing when you have to attend a funeral for a good family friend that grew up with your son, and was killed while riding a bicycle to work. Watching our son and the friend's Mother fall apart leaves a pretty deep impression.