Lights Save Lives

[m@Robertson]

Now, to use flash mode at night, in the front is super dangerous, as it blinds the drivers.

Thats not necessarily true. If you take the time to work your light setup you can avoid this. This pic is an earlier front end setup. The central Knog Cobber ordinarily throws light in a 330-degree arc, but has a mode that shuts off the top portion of the light, so the blinker is blinking down and partially forward (light placement helps with this as well). I doubled this up with tape as you can see, as I got a little blowback myself while riding without it.

This takes time to suss out. There are a lot of night time trips back and forth on a neighborhood street, where you test and re-test what the bike presents as from a distance. What you learn as you see your bike from a distance down the street is a blinker that is physically close to two bright steady lights is washed out and swallowed up by them so that, unless its a REALLY bright blinker, it is completely invisible past only a few feet.

To get around that, you vary the intensity and strength of the blinker, and the space away from the steady lights. The Big Cobber shown here is REALLY bright, but sitting in between two Nightriders, the whole assembly yields the impression of a single beam that is pulsing, for lack of a better term. Between placement and shutting off a portion of the beam, its no longer a sharp blink, but its a visible variation from a steady.

That pic above was taken almost exactly a year ago. In the last few months I have set this bike up with a much nicer - and more expensive, sadly - setup. A Fisher Fab House light that has a variety of modes: 80 lumens, 770, 2900 and 3200. And a 700 lumen flasher. Needless to say, the two big modes should be limited to trail use. I use the 770 lumen mode day and night, and along the lines of the blinkie distance from the main light, I have mounted the light straight up above the bar, and added an extension down below it for the blinker. It ends up being a nice balance again.

The Fisher light is a real winner. One spot and one flood beam, running in tandem. Aluminum casing. Powered directly off the main battery thru a shunt leading to the BBSHD display. But its a pricey little bugger.

 

[Robspace1]

Maybe I missed something but why do you want a front light blinking at night which can totally distract any car drivers eyes. A flashing light at night is no good for a bike riders front vision. I just don't see the point. Daytime yes, but at night?

 

[JedidiahStolzfus]

The "premium" headlight from RadPower is awful, the standard one is far worse. I was looking for something that I had hoped I could wire directly into the headlight circuit of the 35A controller, but I couldn't determine how much current that circuit could supply.

I ended up with these running off their own battery pack: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08M5V2C6K?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

I have them mounted to one of these: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09GKR71FP?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

I kept the "premium" light on the bike and use it as my DRL, the two other lights are just for limited light riding. There are times I might be out at 3 or 4 in the morning going into work or heading home. The problem with these lights is there's no on/off switch and when they're connected to the battery the buttons glow. Thus draining the battery within a couple of days if not charged.

I 3D printed a plate to mount to the points on the bike, and mounted the battery underneath the frame and above the controller. I added in that switch that can be unplugged from the lights. I can then plug the charger into the switch turn it on and it'll charge the battery. The wiring for the headlights I fished down through the frame with the rest of the wires. That was a chore, and I can tell you, that when the holes are cut into the frame for the wiring, the burr is not cleared off. I'd bet that most bikes made suffer the same condition so be careful fishing wires it's very easy to rip the insulation off.

I'm running these as turn signals https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0972G7SYH?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details . They also have red flashers that I use at night and the yellow can be activated as "4-ways" like a car. I've found that cars give me more "respect" when I'm using the turn signals. It's helped greatly with those that hover behind you, if I put on a signal, they'll hang back and let me get into the lane and turn. Most do anyway.

These charge quickly and hold a charge for a very long time. Any time I use the headlights as soon as I get home I plug them in to charge because I found the battery doesn't last nearly as long as the manufacturer says. The turn signals beep when activated, each side is a slightly different tone. Problem is, with the road noise the beep is difficult to hear.

Just wanna say, the turn signals that I linked to in this post, if you get a second set of them, you can program them to use the controller with the other set very easily. Since I got my trailer setup again, I wanted to put a pair of these on the back because I might be using the trailer at night, and I wanted the blinking reds back there for that. But the turn signals will be nice to have too on grocery runs.

 

[Robspace1]

Yea, those headlights are great. Too bad they didn't inlude a switch. That was dumb. Otherwise I would maybe get some for those long night rides on pitch black bike trails through the woods. The turn signals are nice but you can't really see them in the daytime can you? I Need some that are made for day use. My Cyglo lights are really easy to see in the daytime but they don't make turn signals.

 

[mschwett]

Here's a pair that needed lights:

Yes, I know I'm riding down the wrong side, but this path is rather off the beaten path and it's rare to see anyone on it. Plus the side I was on has far fewer roots pushing up the asphalt than the other side so I try to take that side to keep from chipping my teeth.

I didn't see him until I was right on top of him, this was around 5pm. Kid was fine, I think the kid saw me, but he didn't know what he was seeing and swerved in front of me, then out. Some lights would have had them stand out some. I had my headlights and red flashers on this path is heavily shaded.

… but even without lights, if you hadn’t been on the wrong side of the path you wouldn’t have caused a little kid to have to swerve / stop to avoid hitting you! behavior like this is why path users dislike some bike and e-bike riders.

 

[JedidiahStolzfus]

… but even without lights, if you hadn’t been on the wrong side of the path you wouldn’t have caused a little kid to have to swerve / stop to avoid hitting you! behavior like this is why path users dislike some bike and e-bike riders.

Even had I been on the right, the kid would have still had a problem because he was on the wrong side of the path, riding beside his father. I already admitted that I was there, but thank you for calling it out again. Keep in mind, they were on bikes too. I've seen more pedestrians taking up entire paths than I have bikes. Wearing their earbuds and being completely oblivious to the world around them.

 

[JedidiahStolzfus]

Yea, those headlights are great. Too bad they didn't inlude a switch. That was dumb. Otherwise I would maybe get some for those long night rides on pitch black bike trails through the woods. The turn signals are nice but you can't really see them in the daytime can you? I Need some that are made for day use. My Cyglo lights are really easy to see in the daytime but they don't make turn signals.

I think those can be seen in daylight, and as much as I use them and observe the cars around me, I think they can see them too.

 

[mschwett]

Even had I been on the right, the kid would have still had a problem because he was on the wrong side of the path, riding beside his father. I already admitted that I was there, but thank you for calling it out again. Keep in mind, they were on bikes too. I've seen more pedestrians taking up entire paths than I have bikes. Wearing their earbuds and being completely oblivious to the world around them.

looking at the video, it seems like he was on the far right/correct side, and swerved to the other side to avoid you.

pedestrians with headphones do seem especially prone to walking right down the middle of a path!

 

[tomjasz]

… but even without lights, if you hadn’t been on the wrong side of the path you wouldn’t have caused a little kid to have to swerve / stop to avoid hitting you! behavior like this is why path users dislike some bike and e-bike riders.

The "W" word is especially difficult for some... Conflating blame provides a way to pass on or avoid responsibility.

 

[m@Robertson]

Maybe I missed something but why do you want a front light blinking at night which can totally distract any car drivers eyes. A flashing light at night is no good for a bike riders front vision. I just don't see the point. Daytime yes, but at night?

Look up what a 'SMIDSY' accident is. Mostly known as a motorcycle phenomenon, it is every bit the same risk to a cyclist, and I learned about it when I was the direct victim of the phenomenon.

When I was t-boned by a motorist who pulled directly into me from a driveway, she and I made eye contact as she stopped before exiting her parking lot (I was doing about 15 mph in a bike lane and a wide street just before sunset, but with the sun still up and during rush hour. She sat for a good 3-5 seconds before slowly pulling out and hitting me with her driver's side front grille and fender). What I did not realize was she was looking thru me, and not at me. After the fact I learned this is a very common occurrence... As a smaller moving object I blended in, and her human brain greyed me out of the landscape since it/she is conditioned to look for automobiles. If you dig a bit further you will find examples of how the silhouette of an oncoming motorcyclist and bicyclist remains remarkably the same to a motorist and that fact compounds the difficulty of determining oncoming speed and distance.

A blinking light stands out. It is intended to distract. Or rather it is intended to distract the driver from other things around you and focus on you. Once they realize you exist, focus on you for that split second and gauge your approach, the danger is past. If everybody had a blinker, you'd be no better off. But as the lone blinker approaching a driver, you stick out. BTW when I was hit I already had three strong front steady headlights. So I had to ask myself wtf what more can I do? The answer is a blinker.

 

[Robspace1]

I think those can be seen in daylight, and as much as I use them and observe the cars around me, I think they can see them too.

Can you check that out next time the sun is out? I'd like to know how far away you can get on a bright sunny day and still clearly see them blinking. I'd like to get a pair if they can be seen real in sunny daytime conditions.

 

[Robspace1]

Look up what a 'SMIDSY' accident is. Mostly known as a motorcycle phenomenon, it is every bit the same risk to a cyclist, and I learned about it when I was the direct victim of the phenomenon.

When I was t-boned by a motorist who pulled directly into me from a driveway, she and I made eye contact as she stopped before exiting her parking lot (I was doing about 15 mph in a bike lane and a wide street just before sunset, but with the sun still up and during rush hour. She sat for a good 3-5 seconds before slowly pulling out and hitting me with her driver's side front grille and fender). What I did not realize was she was looking thru me, and not at me. After the fact I learned this is a very common occurrence... As a smaller moving object I blended in, and her human brain greyed me out of the landscape since it/she is conditioned to look for automobiles. If you dig a bit further you will find examples of how the silhouette of an oncoming motorcyclist and bicyclist remains remarkably the same to a motorist and that fact compounds the difficulty of determining oncoming speed and distance.

A blinking light stands out. It is intended to distract. Or rather it is intended to distract the driver from other things around you and focus on you. Once they realize you exist, focus on you for that split second and gauge your approach, the danger is past. If everybody had a blinker, you'd be no better off. But as the lone blinker approaching a driver, you stick out. BTW when I was hit I already had three strong front steady headlights. So I had to ask myself wtf what more can I do? The answer is a blinker.

 

[Robspace1]

I totally disagree, and so would most motorists if asked. Flashing bright white headlights at night can cause wrecks. Sure, it does get attention, but it also blinds the oncoming driver. Have you been in front of your lights at night? It causes temporary blindness to look at flashing lights at night. It's why their illegal on cars and motorcycles. In this state, Wa, you never see them being used at night, not on city streets.This state has great bike laws and we have a lot of riders, and people know not to blind oncoming traffic with flashing lights at night. It's common sense. If you stay in the bike lane and wear a bright safety vest or shirt and use 1 or 2 good high powered front lights on solid beam, you should be ok out there. Of course, night riding on city streets is always more dangerous. Too many tired, stoned drivers at night. It's the risk we take.

 

[JedidiahStolzfus]

Can you check that out next time the sun is out? I'd like to know how far away you can get on a bright sunny day and still clearly see them blinking. I'd like to get a pair if they can be seen real in sunny daytime conditions.

I'll see what I can do. A little busy today and tomorrow, oldest daughter's birthday is tomorrow so I have two big meals to cook for her. Her Peanut Butter Chocolate Swirl Cheesecake came out of the oven about an hour ago.

 

[Rexlion]

That situation is one scenario where I turn the rear light on in daytime.
I find lights have about a 90% failure rate in a year. Rain has killed 3 LED versions, even inside the bag not in use. If not rain, battery leakage. If not that, battery contact corrosion. $60 for a piece of inert plastic offends my sensibilities. As most riders here don't ride in the rain, recommendations on the site don't sell me. I have a 18 months old $60 catseye light that rides in a peanut butter jar in the bag 99% of the time. The one time this summer I tried to use it, after dark, the battery went dead after 70 minutes. Rode to summer camp by starlight. I'm sorry, it takes me 255 minutes to finish my commute sometimes. What did work after dark, my ANSI class 2 construction vest, which is highly reflective in headlights of cars.
Buying a $2500 ebike with integrated lights and a display that fails in the rain is another sales pitch that doesn't move my debit card. My bike has no display.
One taillight that works in the rain and has been good for 3 years, is the Garmin Varia radar motion detector. As a hazard warning device it is a complete failure. Wolf! wolf! wolf! wolf! wolf! wolf! wolf! As a tailight it has been very reliable, at a cost of $240. On flash battery lasts about 6 hours. I do have a plastic rainshield over it. No easy way to build one of those over a light that clips to the handlebar.

No reason to rely on chintzy plastic bike lights when one can have a nice aluminum light with o-ring seals. I opted to use a flashlight with a quick-release handlebar mount. It's easy nowadays to find affordable flashlights rated IPX6 or higher, which means they can handle jets of water sprayed at them or even, in the case of IPX 7 or 8, total immersion. An added advantage to the flashlight is the easy replacement of batteries; say you forgot to charge the one inside, or it's aged and no longer holding a charge, being able to pop a new 18650 cell into it can be very helpful (whereas with a built-in battery, once the batt goes the entire light usually must be discarded).

I'm thinking seriously about a taillight right now, and I do have a couple of flashlights that can flash red (one of which is just under 200 lumens via red LED), but I haven't quite decided where I want to mount it.

 

[Rexlion]

I am curious to know what this Cygolite "DayLightning Flash" looks like. Are they flashing a 'normal' non-colored LED, or does the emanating light still appear red, or what? YT videos make it hard to tell; they point the light at the camera instead of showing the light reflecting off a white wall or something.

 

[fooferdoggie]

flashlights have bad beam patterns for bike lights.

 

[Rexlion]

flashlights have bad beam patterns for bike lights.

I'll grant you, they won't have an upper cutoff on the beam, but they can be angled downward which pretty much solves the problem.

Other than that, flashlights have a nice range of beam patterns. I chose one which had a bright spot and a decent corona of spill, running at 500-700 lumens. It's a Wurkkos WK-20. I like the way it illuminates my path at night, and it gives plenty of visibility to observers. Many similar lights have a selectable blinky mode, although that one doesn't, but I could switch out to my Klarus A1; the point is, it's available.

My current lights with red LED are a Quark RGB (no longer produced) which will flash red or do steady red, and a FiTorch MR35 which puts out close to 200 lumens on steady red (it can flash, but it's alternating red/blue which might scare the crap out of some motorists as well as be illegal to use in many states other than mine).

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

We continue to get nothing but positive reactions from motorists who pull over and comment that they were impressed while observing our helmet mounted Flare RTs and Cygolite Metros on our bikes a km away.

Too bad about the scenery. Reminds me of the road from Banff to Jasper.

 

[fooferdoggie]

the First from trek is really good its hard to see in this pic but its all horizontal lights both sides of a bike path the the second pic is a night rider 1000 lumen light. so its not all in the drivers eyes.