Light Electric Motorcycles

[George S.]

I recently saw a cordless snowblower with a 5 amp hour and 40 volt lithium battery pack. The replacement pack was $120 or so. Batteries are getting cheap, though who knows about the quality. But cheap cells mean bigger batteries and that lets you use a bigger motor, carry more weight, have more capacity.

As batteries get cheap, it's easier to make a much more powerful two wheel cycle. EM3ev has a frame for sale that accomodates 3 or 4 thousand watt motors. Now Lunacycle has a similar frame and they are offering 70 volt batteries. You clearly want to get a more robust suspension and hopefully very good disk brakes.

These are two commercial bikes with much heavier frames than what you normally see. None of these vehicles are ebikes or bikes within the laws, but people are reluctant to call them motorcycles. It's too bad there isn't more room to develop this stuff, but sometimes you need to change laws.

I think high end ebikes could suffer if light motorcycles start to 'work' in the marketplace. Prices are too high, unless you build, but what are you building, right now?

 

[William Hemmingsen]

E-bikes are going to start getting some stiff competition from e-scooters. The Vastro OHM 50 e-scooter only costs a mere 1600 Euros. It has a Silicon 72V 20Ah battery with a top speed of 45km/h and an estimated range of 50 kilometers. So how do you justify the cost of a 4000 Euro Speed Pedelec in comparison?

http://www.vastro.fr/nos-scooters/gamme-electrique/141-50-ohm-electrique.html

Bikes in general are very expensive, at least good ones. This is because quality bikes are really a small niche market. So many cheap bikes flooding the market, makes quality components more expensive.

I would venture to guess that most bikes purchased are hardly ever ridden. Companies know this and make most of the money off these cheap big box bikes. I would also venture to guess Shimano produces 100x Tourney derailleurs for every one Deore derailleur.

Weight is the highest motivator for cost in regular bikes. In the bike market people want light weight and extreme durability. Just not a ton of demand for light weight exotic materials in the scooter or motorcycle market. Not many people carry their scooter up stairs.

As long as e-bikes are just bikes with a motor, its not likely that cost will come down much. The only factor that will bring down the cost much is battery pricing coming down.

On the other hand, the e-motorcycle and scooter market are less concerned with weight. So they can use heaver duty less expensive materials.

All this said, there are some shady price gouging in the market also. Bosch battery prices are just out right ridiculous. Haibike for example make quality bikes that even without motor would be $1500-3000 bikes, however then you add in the crazy battery prices it gets real high real quick.

Some will be just fine with a heaver bike with mid level components. This is why we are now seeing these sub $1500 bikes coming into the market. For these your getting a 300-500 bicycle with 800-1000 worth of electronics/battery.

So in summary (In case you don't want to read my long rant). Bikes are darn expensive LOL

 

[MLB]

E-bikes are going to start getting some stiff competition from e-scooters. The Vastro OHM 50 e-scooter only costs a mere 1600 Euros. It has a Silicon 72V 20Ah battery with a top speed of 45km/h and an estimated range of 50 kilometers. So how do you justify the cost of a 4000 Euro Speed Pedelec in comparison?

http://www.vastro.fr/nos-scooters/gamme-electrique/141-50-ohm-electrique.html

Because mine has fully adjustable long travel suspension, goes off road with great zeal and is big fun in town on the bike trails that I can legally use (no skooters). I don't want to go 40mph on the road with cars. And idiots with cell phones.
It's also not a nerdmobile, but rather is thought way cool by most.
Mostly, that skooter is made *(likely) with the cheapest components, pressed steel frame, tiny wheels, no name motor, cheap brakes, etc etc etc while that 4000eu bike has the BEST of components. The finest braking system available, shifters, Bosch or Yamaha or similar motor. Etc etc
I don't know that about that particular skooter, but in general, coveat emptor.
Lastly, warranties and trained dealers with parts and service cost a lot of money and are worth a lot to a consumer in knowing he won't be wasting money on some no name turdbucket that they can't get parts for and nobody knows how to fix.
50k range with a 20ah battery on a 125 kilo skooter? Sure!

 

[George S.]

Because mine has fully adjustable long travel suspension, goes off road with great zeal and is big fun in town on the bike trails that I can legally use (no skooters). I don't want to go 40mph on the road with cars. And idiots with cell phones.
It's also not a nerdmobile, but rather is thought way cool by most.
Mostly, that skooter is made *(likely) with the cheapest components, pressed steel frame, tiny wheels, no name motor, cheap brakes, etc etc etc while that 4000eu bike has the BEST of components. The finest braking system available, shifters, Bosch or Yamaha or similar motor. Etc etc
I don't know that about that particular skooter, but in general, coveat emptor.
Lastly, warranties and trained dealers with parts and service cost a lot of money and are worth a lot to a consumer in knowing he won't be wasting money on some no name turdbucket that they can't get parts for and nobody knows how to fix.
50k range with a 20ah battery on a 125 kilo skooter? Sure!

I think what we will see is partly electrifying other designs. So if you want to take a 4,000 Euro design, lets get closer (Link Removed - No Longer Exists). What would it cost to build this into a higher end battery scooter? Right now, a 2 kWh battery is around a thousand, but the electric motor is going to be cheaper than the gas Honda Motor. I see all kinds of things opening up, based just on the low power gas motorcycles and scooters that are out there. With 4,000 watt motors, I think I would be happy to ride them in traffic, up to around 45 mph.

My point, the over-riding point, is that batteries at $500 a kWh open up all kinds of things that wouldn't work 2 years ago. And the costs are being driven lower by GM/LG and Tesla/Panasonic. An ebike or e-scoot at 4,000 dollars or Euros is a reasonable comparison to make, Haibike to Honda.
Personally, the whole Haibike/Eurobike thing has lost it's gloss. I don't really want a trail bike. They aren't really much good for riding on the road, mostly because they are too slow. If you have a great bike path system, swell, but I have none. Fancy pedal assist is still just a motor and rider. I can get exercise on any ebike I have, all the exercise I need. I like my ebikes, but I see some limits, mostly to keep them unregulated.

For riding on the road, I think you can do better with serious rims and tires. You can put a massive suspension on a scooter or motorcycle. You can put ABS brakes on this class of vehicle. It's probably not a bike. It probably doesn't need pedals. But it's electric so probably very light maintenance. The gas doesn't go bad when there is no gas. You can buy a couple of solar panels for $300 on Amazon and run it 'free' and green. It's just seems like a very useful class of transportation. I look forward to Honda and Yamaha and the Chinese or Taiwanese getting into this market. It's fine with me if they end up being motorcycles. That's the world we live in.