Liability of "crowd funded bikes"
- Thread starter flymeaway
- Start date
stevenast
Well-Known Member
There are a number of members of this board who should be putting "affiliated with the e-bike industry" in their signature, but haven't done so yet.
No names from me, but here are a few examples
- a co-founder of a crowdfunded ebike campaign, the Koben
- a founder or co-founder of another crowd-funded ebike campaign, the Wave
- a person associated with an e-bike shop who will be blogging about his adventures on his complimentary Stromer
- a person working for a local e-bike shop working on commission selling e-bikes
- the owners of several prominent e-bike shops, although some make it obvious in their username
...and quite a few more, but these are just a few examples, so let's cut the new guy some slack!
FTC Complaint
Active Member
Lending Club makes Sondors look like a Saint; LC gets paid first and has no risk to capital, the simplistically flawed and untested models being a major risk to return of capital, a mile high list of concerns many of which are listed in the prospectus.... the list with LC goes on. See 2008 financial crisis and mortgage backed securities.
LC is doing a play on "distribution," its an age old Wall Street trick to pawn off losers, now we have Silicon valley and Wall Street working in synergy; god help us all.
George S.
Well-Known Member
I've studied LC. I have doubts about their grading of loans, and they acknowledged to me that they had no way to model a serious downturn in the economy. The weakness is that they need to produce revenue growth, and ultimately they are in a conflict of interest situation. They might make weaker loans. Packaging of loans is what Wall Street did. Everyone knows S&P and Moodys mis-graded debt. I think you should offer some proof of the mischief that LC has perpetrated on the world. It's not inherently 'bad' just as CF is not inherently bad. It is an alternative to making loans through banks.
Anyone who looks at the collapse of 2008, the lending standards of Countrywide, is going to have a hard time making peer to peer look hopelessly corrupt.
I don't know who you like. Chase? Citi? Wells? How much info should be we get on derivatives? Life insurance companies are increasingly demanding the right to make riskier investments. Peer to peer could be much cleaner if you can keep the gatekeeper honest. LC takes 1% off the top, many mutual funds have much higher fee structures for income investments.
There's no way this is not, in part, the future. In a town full of payday and title loan shops, LC doesn't seem like it is anywhere near that level of depravity.
Anyone who looks at the collapse of 2008, the lending standards of Countrywide, is going to have a hard time making peer to peer look hopelessly corrupt.
I don't know who you like. Chase? Citi? Wells? How much info should be we get on derivatives? Life insurance companies are increasingly demanding the right to make riskier investments. Peer to peer could be much cleaner if you can keep the gatekeeper honest. LC takes 1% off the top, many mutual funds have much higher fee structures for income investments.
There's no way this is not, in part, the future. In a town full of payday and title loan shops, LC doesn't seem like it is anywhere near that level of depravity.
FTC Complaint
Active Member
If I was going to talk about personal or work experiences I would just say this;
Electric bikes, motors, bicycles, electronics, are all things with "a physical integrity," they are tangible things which people labored to build; or can make tangible use of. Finance and crowd funding are virtual things, with lesser integrity. Yes, they might have some utility, place, or function; but No they are not as valuable as transportation or food (other things with physical integrity). In the US we have lost our way during my lifetime.
stevenast
Well-Known Member
Crowdfunded ebikes are just the latest iteration of someone and his money. What is the best case scenario? A summer of riding lost waiting on hope and a promise...
The Panic in the 1890's, 1929, retirement-killing inflation in the 1970's, 2008, credit card debt, the national debt ... just a few examples of financial harm ...
In the run up to the crash of '08, I was talking to a coworker who was moving all her money into the company index stock fund. I suggested balance, because: "what if the market crashed".
She said, "The market can't crash, we have mutual funds now". How can you argue with logic like that?
Crowdfunding does seem minor compared to some historical comparisons, even crowdfunding of loans is tame I guess, but I'm sure we haven't seen the worst abuses yet.
The Panic in the 1890's, 1929, retirement-killing inflation in the 1970's, 2008, credit card debt, the national debt ... just a few examples of financial harm ...
In the run up to the crash of '08, I was talking to a coworker who was moving all her money into the company index stock fund. I suggested balance, because: "what if the market crashed".
She said, "The market can't crash, we have mutual funds now". How can you argue with logic like that?
Crowdfunding does seem minor compared to some historical comparisons, even crowdfunding of loans is tame I guess, but I'm sure we haven't seen the worst abuses yet.
FTC Complaint
Active Member
I agree; Crowdfunding is minuscule
D
Deleted member 803
Guest
Investing in crowd funded projects is considered a risk investment and not an opportunity to buy a cool producy on the cheap. You should support crowd funded project with an understanding that the failure rate is very high. You are NOT buying a product. You are INVESTING in the company. Two totally distinct mindsets that should not be interchangeable. I have invested in many projects as proof statements. When one fails (as most do) you simply move on. If one happens to come be successful and you receive a return on your investment then consider yourself fortunate.
I am amazed that so many people have the wrong expectations about these projects.
I am amazed that so many people have the wrong expectations about these projects.
Crowdfunding is a small even miniscule part of people's entertainment budget.. Compared to the $70 billion a year people spend on state lottery tickets.
Just so people are realistic about the final product, which may or may not resemble the promo, or get delivered at all... Don't bet more than you can afford!
Just so people are realistic about the final product, which may or may not resemble the promo, or get delivered at all... Don't bet more than you can afford!
Marty
Member
I agree, you are far better off investing in a crowd funding operation instead of buying a lottery ticket because the chances are far better, if you pick right.
I almost sent Sonders $500 when the price was $500 because I thought it was worth the risk. Now, I think I made the right decision not to. What made me make that decision? The price is unrealistic and they sold too many to lose money on each one.
I think a lottery ticket has the same chances of people actually getting a Sonders bike. Maybe the lottery ticket is a better investment because it's less money.
I almost sent Sonders $500 when the price was $500 because I thought it was worth the risk. Now, I think I made the right decision not to. What made me make that decision? The price is unrealistic and they sold too many to lose money on each one.
I think a lottery ticket has the same chances of people actually getting a Sonders bike. Maybe the lottery ticket is a better investment because it's less money.
stevenast
Well-Known Member
Absolutely! I've been saying the exact same thing. Unfortunately a lot of the "gamblers" think they are purchasing a product.
stevenast
Well-Known Member
I'm betting some early contributors actually get the bike. But you're still correct about the lottery being a better investment, because the bike most likely won't be worth having... and millions in cash certainly is!
Marty
Member
I have bought several things on Indiegogo and Kickstarter and had great new products for a great price.
One was the unfortunately named "Soylant" which is a liquid food replacement. I'm very happy with it. The best thing there is for a quick meal. I throw a scoop in my bullet blender with some water, whatever fruit I have lying around, and maybe some powdered chocolate. It's so popular that there is a several months long waiting list for new customers.
One was the unfortunately named "Soylant" which is a liquid food replacement. I'm very happy with it. The best thing there is for a quick meal. I throw a scoop in my bullet blender with some water, whatever fruit I have lying around, and maybe some powdered chocolate. It's so popular that there is a several months long waiting list for new customers.
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stevenast
Well-Known Member
The latest update looks pretty good from Storm. I will bet anyone he starts shipping in the next 3 weeks. Black with yellow looking cool.
And as far as being a good bet, Storm is a lot more likely to deliver than the clowns at FlyKly. Many backers were promised 10/14 and are now told 8/15. And those backers were promised a made in America wheel. What a joke.
And as far as being a good bet, Storm is a lot more likely to deliver than the clowns at FlyKly. Many backers were promised 10/14 and are now told 8/15. And those backers were promised a made in America wheel. What a joke.
Ann M.
Well-Known Member
Wouldn't happen to be 'green' by chance and include some recycled human protein??
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