Lectric XP

[Doomsday]

The charging protection failed on three different devices?

There are millions of chargers in this world Simply by the ratio of imperfections you are going to have thousands upon thousands that fail and they do fail every day. Not to mention just how many poorly made Chinese chargers that are out there. There are also bad battery chemistry batteries out there too. The 2011 Nissan leaf is a prime example of that. In my younger days, we had to replace literally every single motherboard in our company of 50,000 folks that owned a particular computer due to bad chemistry in the capacitors. World wide it only was supposed to affect 10% of the IBM computers at the time yet we had to replace all of them. So you having 3 devices fail is not a statistical anomaly. When you factor in defects from manufacturing, failure rates in general, It is highly possible to be the victim of multi failure devices.

Just fyi, I have been fortunate enough to work from home for the past 10 years. I have had 4 laptops in that time. They stay plugged in constantly. Maybe getting unplugged once every couple of months if I need to go in for a day and take my laptop with me. My current laptop that is 2 years old still holds full charge and discharges at the same rate as the day I got it. None of my work laptops have had any charging failures. I have had 1 dell laptop for personal use that failed due to being constantly plugged in about 20 years ago. The failure is going to be one of two things, bad battery chemistry or the bigger culprit being the charger protection failed. Bad chemistry does happen, poor Samsung felt that with their exploding phones a few years ago but your far more likely to suffer from protection failure.

 

[damonjohn]

There are millions of chargers in this world Simply by the ratio of imperfections you are going to have thousands upon thousands that fail and they do fail every day. Not to mention just how many poorly made Chinese chargers that are out there. There are also bad battery chemistry batteries out there too. The 2011 Nissan leaf is a prime example of that. In my younger days, we had to replace literally every single motherboard in our company of 50,000 folks that owned a particular computer due to bad chemistry in the capacitors. World wide it only was supposed to affect 10% of the IBM computers at the time yet we had to replace all of them. So you having 3 devices fail is not a statistical anomaly. When you factor in defects from manufacturing, failure rates in general, It is highly possible to be the victim of multi failure devices.

Just fyi, I have been fortunate enough to work from home for the past 10 years. I have had 4 laptops in that time. They stay plugged in constantly. Maybe getting unplugged once every couple of months if I need to go in for a day and take my laptop with me. My current laptop that is 2 years old still holds full charge and discharges at the same rate as the day I got it. None of my work laptops have had any charging failures. I have had 1 dell laptop for personal use that failed due to being constantly plugged in about 20 years ago. The failure is going to be one of two things, bad battery chemistry or the bigger culprit being the charger protection failed. Bad chemistry does happen, poor Samsung felt that with their exploding phones a few years ago but your far more likely to suffer from protection failure.

Well you can leave your bike plugged in and I'll plug mine in when it needs a charge. You may not have any problems. I won't have any problems. I like won't better than may not.

 

[Doomsday]

It's really not good for the battery to be fully charging it. You're better off to charge it to 80% if possible. You're actually taking life off the battery charging it to 100% all the time. So yes charging it to 100% and leaving it on the charger is harder on the battery. And when the battery starts to drain slightly the charger will top it up, again harder on the battery life. There's all sorts of info on the internet about charging LiPO batteries even our manual explains this.

Ah yes, the biggest falsehood of them all. Only charge your battery to 80%. Never charge to full. Yes, this was so many years ago. Nicads were notorious for going bad and developing memory issues. Lithium is not that old battery tech. Even battery university still spits out this nonsense. With proper cooling and proper chargers, charging to 100% does in fact NOT hurt the battery at all. You realize just how much juice is flowing in the tesla superchargers when these folks quick charge their car batteries? Yet most teslas today still have a 95%+ battery capacity retention.

If you want to optimize your battery health, it's not a bad thing to only charge to 80% and never discharge below 20% but at the same time you are losing 40% of your battery capacity by not using it. If you don't need it then it's fine not to use it, but if everything is right with your battery and charging equipment, charging to full is not going to hurt that battery. You are far more likely to damage the battery due to your charging to full with a hot battery.

Edit note: As I think darceman is an rv'er, I will concede deep cycle batteries are best to not charge to full capacity in that the battery chemistry is different for them. These are 18650 cells we are talking about here. Far different from a deep cycle battery.

 

[Darceman]

Ah yes, the biggest falsehood of them all. Only charge your battery to 80%. Never charge to full. Yes, this was so many years ago. Nicads were notorious for going bad and developing memory issues. Lithium is not that old battery tech. Even battery university still spits out this nonsense. With proper cooling and proper chargers, charging to 100% does in fact NOT hurt the battery at all. You realize just how much juice is flowing in the tesla superchargers when these folks quick charge their car batteries? Yet most teslas today still have a 95%+ battery capacity retention.

If you want to optimize your battery health, it's not a bad thing to only charge to 80% and never discharge below 20% but at the same time you are losing 40% of your battery capacity by not using it. If you don't need it then it's fine not to use it, but if everything is right with your battery and charging equipment, charging to full is not going to hurt that battery. You are far more likely to damage the battery due to your charging to full with a hot battery.

Edit note: As I think darceman is an rv'er, I will concede deep cycle batteries are best to not charge to full capacity in that the battery chemistry is different for them. These are 18650 cells we are talking about here. Far different from a deep cycle battery.

I think you should stop coming to incorrect conclusions as to what someone's background is. You don't know me and your making an incorrect assumption just like your battery information is incorrect. There's all sorts of information about charging on the internet some of it BS some of it true. Bottom line is you're giving false information to people about batteries. Hopefully the people reading these forums will sort through the incorrect information and figure out the correct information on their own.

 

[Doomsday]

I think you should stop coming to incorrect conclusions as to what someone's background is. You don't know me and your making an incorrect assumption just like your battery information is incorrect. There's all sorts of information about charging on the internet some of it BS some of it true. Bottom line is you're giving false information to people about batteries. Hopefully the people reading these forums will sort through the incorrect information and figure out the correct information on their own.

My apologies. It was DamanJohn that mentioned RV stuff. I have over 35 years into technology and battery experience, I have had thousands of batteries in my lifetime and dealing with both charging and discharging on a daily basis, often multiple times daily. My background is in computers, I have supported them in hardware and software for many years. My R/C hobby experience on charging and discharging batteries has proven the general information out there on the internet is bad and false and people just love to say oh but the internet says it's so. that doesn't make it true. Like I said, I still have some of the first lithium cells ever used in R/C flying world and I had to charge and discharge them with no charging/discharging protection built-in at all. Those same cells still have over 90% of their capacity. Its discharge rate is useless for today's electronics but even back then it had HUNDREDS of charges. Unless you are dealing with bad chemistry or faulty protection or overexposure to heat, there not much to worry about in terms of battery damage. When it comes to recreational batteries, I assure you, I have much more knowledge of them than the average person. Do with this information as you wish, I don't really care if you damage your batteries or not. I don't suffer from battery problems like most people do. I know what to do and how to do it. Most of the general guidelines are out there for (forgive the term) battery dummies in it helps to prevent issues like battery charger failures. Like any other piece of equipment, they can go bad. The issue is these pieces of equipment just happen to be connected to an explosion waiting to happen. I don't have any issue with a company telling me to unplug after charging, its a good safety precaution. I don't have an issue with people only charging to 80% and never discharging below 20%. It's a good safety thing to do, That takes away the heat damage factor. Is it necessary? If the equipment is working properly and you're not abusing the batter by trying to charge an already hot battery, no, it's not.

Edit note: When I say 40v is on the edge of damage territory, I'm not exaggerating. When you factor in an enclosed space, Outside temp and you happen to surge at the wrong time on a near low battery, It WILL cause damage. At the 38.5v your bike was set at, Not even surging, cutting off at 38.5 volts absolutely will cause damage. Charging is actually your least concern.

 

[Darceman]

My apologies. It was DamanJohn that mentioned RV stuff. I have over 35 years into technology and battery experience, I have had thousands of batteries in my lifetime and dealing with both charging and discharging on a daily basis, often multiple times daily. My background is in computers, I have supported them in hardware and software for many years. My R/C hobby experience on charging and discharging batteries has proven the general information out there on the internet is bad and false and people just love to say oh but the internet says it's so. that doesn't make it true. Like I said, I still have some of the first lithium cells ever used in R/C flying world and I had to charge and discharge them with no charging/discharging protection built-in at all. Those same cells still have over 90% of their capacity. Its discharge rate is useless for today's electronics but even back then it had HUNDREDS of charges. Unless you are dealing with bad chemistry or faulty protection or overexposure to heat, there not much to worry about in terms of battery damage. When it comes to recreational batteries, I assure you, I have much more knowledge of them than the average person. Do with this information as you wish, I don't really care if you damage your batteries or not. I don't suffer from battery problems like most people do. I know what to do and how to do it. Most of the general guidelines are out there for (forgive the term) battery dummies in it helps to prevent issues like battery charger failures. Like any other piece of equipment, they can go bad. The issue is these pieces of equipment just happen to be connected to an explosion waiting to happen. I don't have any issue with a company telling me to unplug after charging, its a good safety precaution. I don't have an issue with people only charging to 80% and never discharging below 20%. It's a good safety thing to do, That takes away the heat damage factor. Is it necessary? If the equipment is working properly and you're not abusing the batter by trying to charge an already hot battery, no, it's not.

I also have been into RC racing and experienced the nicad batteries, the nickel metal hydride batteries and now LiPO batteries which are so so much better but they're not infallible. My son was so good that he was actually sponsored by a company racing his RC trucks, me I wasn't near the same level as him but we had lots of experience with batteries. I'm not going to keep arguing with you about batteries the proof is in the pudding. Hopefully people on The forum will be able to figure out what's right for them and not take incorrect advice.
It's better to play it safe and have a long lasting battery. I'm done with arguing about this you're probably not but I am.

 

[Old Biker]

I also have been into RC racing and experienced the nicad batteries, the nickel metal hydride batteries and now LiPO batteries which are so so much better but they're not infallible. My son was so good that he was actually sponsored by a company racing his RC trucks, me I wasn't near the same level as him but we had lots of experience with batteries. I'm not going to keep arguing with you about batteries the proof is in the pudding. Hopefully people on The forum will be able to figure out what's right for them and not take incorrect advice.
It's better to play it safe and have a long lasting battery. I'm done with arguing about this you're probably not but I am.

Agree lets move on, but just going to throw this out there for people who are really worried, you can always get a devise like this:https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00VB2BXG...olid=2G1CJCIWICMNP&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it, kind of pricey, but would take some of the worries away.

 

[RobK]

It's really not good for the battery to be fully charging it. You're better off to charge it to 80% if possible. You're actually taking life off the battery charging it to 100% all the time. So yes charging it to 100% and leaving it on the charger is harder on the battery. And when the battery starts to drain slightly the charger will top it up, again harder on the battery life. There's all sorts of info on the internet about charging LiPO batteries even our manual explains this.

There are no LiPo batteries in our bikes. LiPo batteries are used mostly in RC applications.
Discharge rate is too high to use them for ebike application.
Ebike battery packs are mostly build with Lion cylindrical cells.

 

[Darceman]

There are no LiPo batteries in our bikes. LiPo batteries are used mostly in RC applications.
Discharge rate is too high to use them for ebike application.
Ebike battery packs are mostly build with Lion cylindrical cells.

You are correct I use the term lipo as in Lithium polymer not lithium ion.

 

[Doomsday]

I also have been into RC racing and experienced the nicad batteries, the nickel metal hydride batteries and now LiPO batteries which are so so much better but they're not infallible. My son was so good that he was actually sponsored by a company racing his RC trucks, me I wasn't near the same level as him but we had lots of experience with batteries. I'm not going to keep arguing with you about batteries the proof is in the pudding. Hopefully people on The forum will be able to figure out what's right for them and not take incorrect advice.
It's better to play it safe and have a long lasting battery. I'm done with arguing about this you're probably not but I am.

And that is where we differ on battery tech. Rc cars has had built-in lithium protections from the start. In the flying world, we could not have that. To much weight. No casings surrounding our batteries. The RC Car world thought us mad for doing it. We were on the edge pushing serious boundaries. It cost some their planes, It cost some their Trailers they hauled planes in. Fireproof safes for charging batteries. These things were not needed for nicad batteries. But in the grand scheme of things, It brought out better battery protection for all. Awesome your son got sponsored, It takes great skill. I can fly most rc planes, fast or slow and most helicopters to a certain extent. I only ever did it for recreation. In fact, I can probably guarantee you that I have deliberately overcharged and over-discharged more batteries than most people use regular batteries in their lifetime all in the name of testing. Again, there is no shame in wanting to go the safe route when it comes to charging or discharging your batteries. It's overall a very good idea. Its when it's being placed in the must-do fact category, that's where I have my problems. Its false information. What I don't understand is why you feel that discharging your batteries to 40v is fine but you go through all the extras to protect it when charging. Maybe your one that doesn't run your battery to cut off, which is good, but thats not what the general population is going to do.

 

[Doomsday]

Agree lets move on, but just going to throw this out there for people who are really worried, you can always get a devise like this:https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00VB2BXG...olid=2G1CJCIWICMNP&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it, kind of pricey, but would take some of the worries away.

Ok, so having to harp on this again. Why should we have to spend another 200+ dollars to be able to change the tire size on our bike? Or to set our battery voltage at a safer minimum. Or even to adjust the most harmless setting of correcting your speedometer readout. The answer is, We shouldn't have to. This was an overreaction on their part and it affects thousands of bikes. Growing pains sure, No problem, but admit to errors and be ready to correct them for the people that want it corrected. How is that asking for too much?

 

[RobK]

Bike so far .
Still waiting for new controller, new LCD and shifter.

 

[Old Biker]

Ok, so having to harp on this again. Why should we have to spend another 200+ dollars to be able to change the tire size on our bike? Or to set our battery voltage at a safer minimum. Or even to adjust the most harmless setting of correcting your speedometer readout. The answer is, We shouldn't have to. This was an overreaction on their part and it affects thousands of bikes. Growing pains sure, No problem, but admit to errors and be ready to correct them for the people that want it corrected. How is that asking for too much?

Hey chill man, I just threw that out for FYI, you don't have to get one.

 

[Old Biker]

Bike so far .
Still waiting for new controller, new LCD and shifter.

Looking good.

 

[Doomsday]

Hey chill man, I just threw that out for FYI, you don't have to get one.

Ok, are my posts coming across as angry? If they are, I apologize, I am not angry in the slightest. Just trying to point out that isnt something we should have to do have basic functions of our bikes.

 

[Doomsday]

Bike so far .
Still waiting for new controller, new LCD and shifter.

Nice. Wonder what that new gear set will do for your range, I just go in some new pedals for my bike. The default ones are to thin for my big feet and kind of slippery. Hopefully get these new pedals on soon.

 

[Old Biker]

Nice. Wonder what that new gear set will do for your range, I just go in some new pedals for my bike. The default ones are to thin for my big feet and kind of slippery. Hopefully get these new pedals on soon.

Which pedals did you go for? I don't like the ones that came with it also.

 

[RobK]

Nice. Wonder what that new gear set will do for your range, I just go in some new pedals for my bike. The default ones are to thin for my big feet and kind of slippery. Hopefully get these new pedals on soon.

It will do nothing to range or it will be minimal gain.
Its 11-28T so smaller then original and I got it to not run out of cranking power at higher speeds.

 

[99cstore]

The XP is my third e-bike and all of them drained the battery on uphill runs but the level goes back up on the flats.

It's just that my previous ebike (by Greenbikeusa), stopped working mid-up hill climb. (very steep hill)
The motor started making this LOUD hum/grinding noise.. and eventually just gave out.
I replaced the motor, and still didnt work.
It was 500W 48V 10.4AH also.

I am afraid this XP will face a similar fate on that hill that I have to go through quite often.
If i just cruise lightly on PAS 3, will my motor or controller blow??


What is the steepest hill (and for what distance) were you guys able to ride the XP with no issues???

 

[Doomsday]

Which pedals did you go for? I don't like the ones that came with it also.

I just went with a cheap pair of non folding ones. As I dont think I will be folding the bike up all that much. https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MQJ3C3R/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1