Kindernay VII IGH and HYSEQ Onesie shifter

[Explorer-1]

This is really a killer product. This is a game changer for e-bikes.

 

[ava1ar]

Opened the pandora box and ordered the Kindernay VII today - considering it birthday present to myself... Plan is build a new wheel (by myself, without rush) and upgrade my C380+ with it eventually. Will post updates once I get some news.

 

[scrambler]

@ava1ar DO you have an ETA from Kindernay, I am really curious to see what the new torque arm looks like on the 6 bolt design...

 

[ava1ar]

@ava1ar DO you have an ETA from Kindernay, I am really curious to see what the new torque arm looks like on the 6 bolt design...

Nothing new here yet - I believe they were mentioning October originally, hopefully it won't be delayed. Will ping them if there are some updated schedule available.

 

[ava1ar]

Started looking for the rear sprocket for the Kindernay and Gates Carbon and have some confusion here:

• In their blog they are suggesting Gates CDX 9-Spline Disc 6-Hole Rear Belt Drive Sprocket (for Kindernay XIV, but I hope Kindernay VII uses same interface)
• Same cog I see mounted on the photo in this review
• 9-spline standard cog interface is specified on their home page as well
• However I don't see what is the usage of these 6 holes
• And Gates has 9 spline version without them

Any ideas here? Am I missing something? Why this holes are needed?

I am planning to order this one, which is 22T (what I needed) and looks like exactly the one they are suggesting.

 

[scrambler]

The one you are referencing is the CT1122HMN its spec are
Web Thickness:2.35
Width:11
Offset (mount):2.1
Offset (center):2.25

There is another one which is CT1122SMN with slightly different specs
Web Thickness: 5
Width: 11
Offset (mount): 0.5
Offset (center):3

So you should ask Kindernay, because these will affect the centerline of the belt, and that is not something you want to mess with. There is very little extra space between the belt and the HYSEQ, so these difference could make or break the fit.
What bike are you planning to install this on?
Because the centerline of the Front sprocket is key here

 

[ava1ar]

What bike are you planning to install this because the centerline of the Front sprocket is key here

Gazelle Ultimate C380+

So you should ask Kindernay, because these will affect the centerline of the belt, and that is not something you want to mess with. There is very little extra space between the belt and the HYSEQ, so these difference could make or break the fit.

Makes sense, will ask them. Thanks!

P.S. Looks like CT1122SMN is not the one compatible, so choice now is CT1122HMN vs CT1122HMNS (first has narrower attachment). This specific detail is definitely something to ask the Kindernay about - too difficult to make a decision without having hub and hand...

 

[scrambler]

Is the gazelle known to have a compatible Belt Line or not?

Kindernay says their Belt Belt Line with the supported 22T sprocket is 45.5mm which is quite small.

You need to check based on the compatible front sprocket, what are the belt line that can be achieved in the front.
Keep in mind that depending on space with the motor and swingarm, a front sprocket/chainring can be mounted to the inside or outside of the Spider, and some Gates front sprocket also have an offset. So depending on how you mount them they offset to the inside or the outside. That gives you the possibility to create 4 different Belt lines in the front in hope one will be close enough to the rear 45.5mm of the Kindernay.

If that still does not work, and if your rear dropout is 142 or better 148mm, there would be some way to offset the hub by a couple of millimeter to increase that rear Belt Line, using the Hyseq housing of a smaller dropout, and adding a spacer on the other side...

 

[ava1ar]

Is the gazelle known to have a compatible Belt Line or not?

I send a question to them with the question about sprocket and bike compatibility. Gazelle uses very similar frames with belt for Nexus 8 and Enviolo, I hope Kindernay will fit as well. I hardly believe they can confirm comparability with specific models of the different bikes vendor - there is always a compatibility risk there...

You need to check based on the compatible front sprocket, what are the belt line that can be achieved in the front.

My ultimate plan is to keep the front sprocket as-is (I have 55T-22T with Enviolo and plan to use 22T with Kindernay as well). I am maybe too optimistic these all would work just as-is, but somebody needs to try and share the knowledge with others - Kindernay VII will be a rear thing in US for a while and I don't really want to wait that long.

 

[scrambler]

Do you know which rear sprocket the Enviolo is using.
The table below from them shows they have two different sprocket and belt lines.
One has the same 45.5mm Kindernay is using, so that would be perfect
But the other is 48.7mm, which would mean you would need to check if the front sprocket belt line could be reduced by ideally 3mm.

Sprockets & chainline (enviolo, Gates & KMC)

We offer flat 2.3mm thick sprockets from 16 to 22 teeth for 3/32" chains, and a 20 tooth offset sprocket for 1/8" chains. Chainline on the flat sprockets is 49mm on 135mm and 142mm hubs, the 148mm ...

support.enviolo.com

I could never find what is the acceptable offset between front and rear the Gates belt can handle, but the straighter, the less wear for sure.

One last question, the Enviolo is not a thru Axle, so can the frame rear dropout accommodate the Kindernay Thru Axle?

 

[ava1ar]

Do you know which rear sprocket the Enviolo is using.

My bike has CT1122VMN REV A (which is logical, since this is the only option for 135mm real spacing), so Kindernay should be fine here. BTW, thanks for sharing this page - I will be able to pick the proper sprocket for Kindernay using provided values.

One last question, the Enviolo is not a thru Axle, so can the frame rear dropout accommodate the Kindernay Thru Axle?

Should be possible. The frame has a mount for the sliding dropouts and I probably need to find thru-axle compatible - hopefully this is doable.
P.S. Looks like it doesn't really need new dropouts - I see just some skewer used with XIV model here without using true thru-axle dropouts.

 

[scrambler]

Re reading it more closely, the difference of Belt lines for Enviolo depends on the dropout version
If you have a 135mm dropout, than it looks like the Belt line is the same 45.5mm, the 48.7mm is for 148mm dropout.

For the Axle, you need to get 12mm wide opening. From the Video, it seems even a slit dropout can work once the bolt is tight.

I would ask ask Kindernay's opinion on that...

 

[TomD]

Nothing new here yet - I believe they were mentioning October originally, hopefully it won't be delayed. Will ping them if there are some updated schedule available.

Pretty sure it's not going to be available until 2022.

 

[ava1ar]

I would ask ask Kindernay's opinion on that...

Would be great to hear some official statements on what they suggest and what is not. I am using skewers/axles from the Hexlox on front wheels on both C8 and C380+ right now and hope I would be able to find a matching item for the rear wheel from them as well.

For the Axle, you need to get 12mm wide opening. From the Video, it seems even a slit dropout can work once the bolt is tight.

Actually, 10mm since 135 uses 10mm, while 142 and 147 are 12mm (unless I am wrong with what 10 and 12 means for spacing). And enviolo-specific dropouts are already 10mm, so should be no issues here as well.

 

[ava1ar]

Pretty sure it's not going to be available until 2022.

There was some confirmation from them about ~6 weeks processing time for the orders placed in the beginning of the month. Even if it will take 1-2 months it is fine, however I still hope to get one this year.

 

[Merle Nelson]

There was some confirmation from them about ~6 weeks processing time for the orders placed in the beginning of the month. Even if it will take 1-2 months it is fine, however I still hope to get one this year.

I inquired about target shipping date if I ordered one 2 or 3 weeks ago. They got right back to me and said it would ship in 6 weeks.

Hopefully just a few more weeks for your order.

 

[TomD]

Maybe they are shipping earlier to individuals. When I asked Watt Wagons they said they didn't expect to have them until next year.

 

[Merle Nelson]

Not sure. When they were first posted about on this forum by ??? I went to the K website and they said the VII was in stock. Not sure if that was an inadvertent mistake or if they were available and subsequently became "back-ordered". But if I could have found out the exact specs I need for the Hydra I would have ordered it day one.

As it is my Hydra is to be shipped in about two weeks so I will wait and try the Kindernay 14 to see how I like it.

 

[ava1ar]

Maybe they are shipping earlier to individuals. When I asked Watt Wagons they said they didn't expect to have them until next year.

Looks like this - OEMs are targeted for 2022, however availability for individuals is Fall 2021

The 7 Speed Internal Gear Hub and HYSEQ Onesie Shifter will be available from fall 2021, with OEM deliveries starting early 2022.

From here.

 

[ava1ar]

Got a confirmation from Kindernay today that both CT1122HMN and CT1122HMNS sprockets are compatible:

Both of the cogs you mentioned are compatible with our hubs, so you can use any of those without any particular difference.

bike-components.de has them both in stock, but shipping cost to US is hard to swallow (especially for such a small part!) Any other places to order the Gates parts in US?