Juiced Cycles with 12T MAC motor @ 48V doing over 30mph

[tomjasz]

Hi Thomas, How many miles do you think you can get with a MAC under typical urban riding conditions (not hot roding around) before the gears have to be replaced?

I've read some people having to replace Bafang gears under 2000 miles. I would hope to get a minimum of 10,000 miles or about 2 years of riding for me. If I can't get that many miles from the gears, then I'd strongly lean towards a direct drive hub motor that may be a bit less peppy at the slower speeds.

I had a fellow call for support today. He wanted to know what to do with his BBS02 with 5000 miles on the clock. Sadly all the gear fails are largely anecdotal and given the sheer numbers of Bafang geared motors out there, quite small, perjhps inconsequential.

The Bafang gears on some models are had to find but are fairly cheap and are very easy to replace. That said I have MAC users with 5000 miles plus. Some as high as 7000-10,000. BUT REMEMBER A gear set is also quite cheap. Many of the gear fails are due to overvolting and/or ramping up the Amps. I've never posted my successes to a help forum. Take reports with a grain of salt.

 

[Ken M]

I had a fellow call for support today. He wanted to know what to do with his BBS02 with 5000 miles on the clock. Sadly all the gear fails are largely anecdotal and given the sheer numbers of Bafang geared motors out there, quite small, perjhps inconsequential.

The Bafang gears on some models are had to find but are fairly cheap and are very easy to replace. That said I have MAC users with 5000 miles plus. Some as high as 7000-10,000. BUT REMEMBER A gear set is also quite cheap. Many of the gear fails are due to overvolting and/or ramping up the Amps. I've never posted my successes to a help forum. Take reports with a grain of salt.

Thanks.....Given the relative low cost of the gears and the ease of replacement so long as they last say 10,000 miles that will not be considered an issue by anyone. I've always thought that if you just don't hammer a high powered throttled gear hub drive the gear loads remain relatively low so they will last.

What is interesting it that on an earlier video, Justin at Grin Technologies states that they've seen about the same reliability from geared and Direct Drive hub motors. Obviously a DD hub motor should be extremely reliable so my guess is the #1 failure mode is riders just burning up both geared and DD hub motors.

 

[Ken M]

This may explain the assist speed question I raised in this forum. Here's is a recent online review by someone that purchased the HF1100 and the motor has a sticker that indicates 9T. Maybe there was a communication gap between MAC and Juiced on what the actually stater wind count was. The 9T at 48V would assist higher than 30mph. Maybe this tread initiated a corrective action effort....

 

[tomjasz]

MAC 9T? Never heard of such a motor!?

 

[Ken M]

MAC 9T? Never heard of such a motor!?

I know...strange but there is a white label on the guys MAC motor in the video. Just strange .... seems like someone a Juiced Cycles was trying to fix the 12T claim because that wind can not assist past 30mph.

 

[Tora Harris]

There are no conspiracies going on here as boring as that sounds.


HF1000 had 9T and 12T
One has slightly more torque and one with more speed. This basically confused people and we streamlined the offering in the next iteration of the product.


HF1100 has only 12T option
We upgraded the stock battery to 52V and used a 12T motor winding. This combination provides good torque and speed especially with the high voltage battery pack.

HyperScrambler is 8T
The production HyperScramblers use 8T motors. Because of the smaller wheels we needed to use a faster motor. Torque is still very good with the smaller diameter tires.

We have also looked at Grin’s Simulation and not sure why there is a difference in performance between the reality and the charts. There may be a difference in the motor controller which is not accounted for in the simulation. We did not try to deceive anyone with the videos posted, those are the real results and data pulled from the GPS.

 

[Ken M]

There are no conspiracies going on here as boring as that sounds.


HF1000 had 9T and 12T
One has slightly more torque and one with more speed. This basically confused people and we streamlined the offering in the next iteration of the product.


HF1100 has only 12T option
We upgraded the stock battery to 52V and used a 12T motor winding. This combination provides good torque and speed especially with the high voltage battery pack.

HyperScrambler is 8T
The production HyperScramblers use 8T motors. Because of the smaller wheels we needed to use a faster motor. Torque is still very good with the smaller diameter tires.

We have also looked at Grin’s Simulation and not sure why there is a difference in performance between the reality and the charts. There may be a difference in the motor controller which is not accounted for in the simulation. We did not try to deceive anyone with the videos posted, those are the real results and data pulled from the GPS.

Sorry...didn't intend to imply a conspiracy in the slightest. Just was looking at the MAC motor and noticed the difference in simulation vs. your video (one of the coolest urban ebike ride videos). The MAC motor is impressive in any winding configuration. Thanks for taking the time to contribute your input. I can only imagine how busy you are managing the business.

 

[tomjasz]

I know...strange but there is a white label on the guys MAC motor in the video. Just strange .... seems like someone a Juiced Cycles was trying to fix the 12T claim because that wind can not assist past 30mph.

That's definitely not a sticker Damon, MAC owner, would use! Why carry on with HF1000 9T misinformation? Did Mac do a custom motor?

 

[Ken M]

That's definitely not a sticker Damon, MAC owner, would use! Why carry on with HF1000 9T misinformation? Did Mac do a custom motor?

Hi Thomas,

I was just wondering about the speed claims. The 9T and 12T HF1000 and 12T HF1100 are specs from Juiced Cycles. I'm sure MAC would do a 9T for Juiced so I consider that claim accurate.

 

[Tora Harris]

The 9T motor is special made. The white sticker is used in the factory so the 9T and 12T motors did not get mixed up as the hubs were exactly the same. Later we used a laser to inscribe the letters so no need to use the stickers.

 

[tomjasz]

The 9T motor is special made. The white sticker is used in the factory so the 9T and 12T motors did not get mixed up as the hubs were exactly the same. Later we used a laser to inscribe the letters so no need to use the stickers.

Making it even more confusing... A 9T ought to rock an easy 30MPH. With a better controller even faster. Why 9T?

 

[tomjasz]

Hi Thomas,

I was just wondering about the speed claims. The 9T and 12T HF1000 and 12T HF1100 are specs from Juiced Cycles. I'm sure MAC would do a 9T for Juiced so I consider that claim accurate.

Sure, but why 9T. Odd.

 

[Ken M]

When a toss up between an 8T and 10T, go with 9T.

 

[tomjasz]

When a toss up between an 8T and 10T, go with 9T.

But why. Sorry. I just struggle with the logic.

 

[tomjasz]

Doubting Thomas.

 

[erider_61]

Making it even more confusing... A 9T ought to rock an easy 30MPH. With a better controller even faster. Why 9T?

The guy in the factory was told to make 10T but he wasn't very good at math

 

[Ken M]

The guy in the factory was told to make 10T but he wasn't very good at math

Tora (I'm assuming you know he is the founder of Juiced Cycles so he should know) explained that they wanted a torque and a speed wind selection option on the HF1000 but it caused some confusion so they just consolidated to a single configuration. I'm still puzzled by the implication that the 12T HP1100 has assist to 35+ mph but maybe the simulation is off a bit and doesn't take into account FOC controller capability.

For my purposes I would select the winding I want based on the simulated projections. If faster all the better I guess. I'm going to try an 8T that I plan to drive with a 52V battery and a 30-40A controller (hopefully an ASI or Phaserunner just in throttle mode even though I fully plan on riding it like a pedelec - I just want total control of the assist level because I'm beginning to this all the sensor driven assist systems are just ego based solutions - engineers thinking they can program the desired assist under all situations for all rider capabilities (that is just irrational thinking but I don't hate programmed PASs). I'm a degree Mechanical Engineer so I can be critical of the egos trying to do out-do a throttle but so far they really haven't if people really paid attention to the performance of the pedelec ebikes (they are not always providing the desired assist).

 

[GeeMac]

Thanks for feedback. Keep up the ebike efforts. I think you are a strong rider and I enjoyed your video regardless of my ??? the top assist speed of a 12T (lots of parameters are involved and the simulations are not always rock solid).

I was going to be in San Diego and Escondido towards the end of this month and early February. Might check in sometime.

Well, I own a HF1100 and I get it up to 38-40 mph pretry much whenever I hit the track. I usually have between 55-50 volts of power in the large capacity battery. I run the tires at 25psi. I am able to maintain those speeds only in quater mile bursts before my legs catch fire. Latic acid is a mother!

 

[tomjasz]

It gets deeper, looking for my knee boots...

 

[GeeMac]

It gets deeper, looking for my knee boots...

Knee boots on an e-bike...