Juiced Cycles with 12T MAC motor @ 48V doing over 30mph

[Ken M]

Use this chart for a reality check. At 12Y will NOT get over about 25mph. Use EM3ev or MAC direct. To much mistaken posts here regarding speed. EM3ev has better info!

https://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?bopen=false&motor=MMAC12T&batt=B5216_GA&cont=C40&axis=mph

Thanks!!! I didn't realize the "show all" button at the bottom of the motor simulator had the MAC motors. I'm assuming that Juiced cycles is not really using the 12T Mac as stated on the website in the Hyper 1100. They have a 52V battery but Tora's video implies he's getting assist above 36mph which is not realistic with the 12T.

I wish Luna had the 8T and 10T in their product offerings but only the 6T and 12T so I'll have to probably go with the 6T. It looks pretty good in the 20-35mph range that I'm focused on anyway.

 

[tomjasz]

Thanks!!! I didn't realize the "show all" button at the bottom of the motor simulator had the MAC motors. I'm assuming that Juiced cycles is not really using the 12T Mac as stated on the website in the Hyper 1100. They have a 52V battery but Tora's video implies he's getting assist above 36mph which is not realistic with the 12T.

I wish Luna had the 8T and 10T in their product offerings but only the 6T and 12T so I'll have to probably go with the 6T. It looks pretty good in the 20-35mph range that I'm focused on anyway.

I think you'll get better service from EM3ev or MAC direct. Several old users of MAC on ES Facebook.

 

[Ken M]

Use this chart for a reality check. At 12Y will NOT get over about 25mph. Use EM3ev or MAC direct. To much mistaken posts here regarding speed. EM3ev has better info!

https://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?bopen=false&motor=MMAC12T&batt=B5216_GA&cont=C40&axis=mph

It's crystal clear that Juiced Cycles is not really using a 12T in the Hyperfat 1100 (maybe some misleading information from marketing) because they bike can assist well past 30mph with a 52V battery. I'm glad I did this extra effort because now I know for certain I want to get a MAC 6T of 8T on my next project ebike.

One thing I noticed running the simulations is that the faster winds have a slower fall-off of torque as the speed increases. Since riders can typically put in significant power for say at least 10 seconds this is more important that having higher low speed torque unless you are building a cargo bike or live in a very hilly location.

 

[tomjasz]

It's crystal clear that Juiced Cycles is not really using a 12T in the Hyperfat 1100 (maybe some misleading information from marketing) because they bike can assist well past 30mph with a 52V battery. I'm glad I did this extra effort because now I know for certain I want to get a MAC 6T of 8T on my next project ebike.

One thing I noticed running the simulations is that the faster winds have a slower fall-off of torque as the speed increases. Since riders can typically put in significant power for say at least 10 seconds this is more important that having higher low speed torque unless you are building a cargo bike or live in a very hilly location.

I bought two 10T. Their MAX is just right for my ridng. I tried a 2wd MAC but it was massive overkill. If I had hills it would have been a beast. As well as one ice, a really fun ride! I opted for a new rear-drive build and an update on front drive bike

 

[tomjasz]

Wiring for CA3 and 2WD.

 

[JRA]

I always find it odd that there is no recognition that a front wheel drive eBike is inherently AWD?

AWD vehicles operate best using a form of viscous coupling that senses which wheel needs to provide more/less traction. The diagram above makes no allowance for that but I suppose you could have two separate throttles which would be too fussy.

Human input to the rear wheel is sensitive enough via selecting the proper gear ratio/input/cadence to regulate it as the coupler while also regulating the front hub electronically. I find a throttle works best for this but with the cruise control aspect set at the desired watt level.

Sorry to interrupt.

 

[tomjasz]

I always find it odd that there is no recognition that a front wheel drive eBike is inherently AWD?

AWD vehicles operate best using a form of viscous coupling that senses which wheel needs to provide more/less traction. The diagram above makes no allowance for that but I suppose you could have two separate throttles which would be too fussy.

Human input to the rear wheel is sensitive enough via selecting the proper gear ratio/input/cadence to regulate it as the coupler while also regulating the front hub electronically. I find a throttle works best for this but with the cruise control aspect set at the desired watt level.

Sorry to interrupt.

Good potential nuts but overthought maybe. Two controller separately programmed with a CA3. Works great. Many good threads and builds out there. Q100 and Q128 were popular but the new Bafang may be the hot item for small size and weight.

 

[JRA]

Tom, I have been a member of ES since '08 and have seen all the different methods people have done over the years and to my mind they are all overthought, overly complex and over weight. My biggest question has always been why you need three motors for two wheels? I ride a front hub bike with 40c tires on and off the beach here any time I want just with a 9c and my own power. I have climbed ridiculously steep loose terrain also that at first made me laugh out loud at what I was doing. So while as you say it can be done, I say why bother.



And to get back to the OP's quest for speed here is a run I recorded with my Grin All Axle @ 52v/20A on level pavement with little wind involved. Pedaling 90-100 rpm cadence in a 150" gear courtesy of my Schlumpf High Speed Drive. While these types of speed are entirely possible I still feel they are entirely improbable to use day to day and I just did it to see if it could be done.



Apologies in advance for the thread high jack. Carry on.

 

[tomjasz]

Well I agree, it was fun. But I guess I’ve got the idea that 2WD could perform as well as a BBSHD had I needed the climbing ability. I rode a q100/q128 and it was kinda cool, alas to much of a dork to enjoy the speeds I got out of the 2 macs. In the end I’ve moved to Mac 10t single motors and it’s far less complicated. Unfortunately I’m one of those fellas that just has to try things for myself. I think I read 2old is hanging his up, or disassembling. To use elsewhere. As always you comments are appreciated.

 

[Ken M]

I'll somewhat close this post by saying that I'm disappointed in Tora and Juiced Cycles for what seems like an intentionally misleading video on the top speed capability of a 12T MAC motor @ 48V. Based on technical feedback and simulations (based on some empirical modeling of the MAC motor) with some confidence we can conclude that was not a 12T motor on the bike in the video on on the current production Hyperfat 1100s. Most likely 6T motors....that's fine but I'm left wondering why seemingly mislead.

Maybe someone at Juiced will enter a response with honest technical information.....

 

[Tora Harris]

HF1100 are using 12T Motors.

 

[steve mercier]

That dude has a death wish or heat stroke. At 14mins he cuts off the black car after passing on the right. Lucky for him the driver only honks. It seems so strange that at 30 mph he seems to be passing many more cars than are passing him.

 

[tomjasz]

HF1100 are using 12T Motors.

So it IS misleading? Kudos for using a MAC! Damon is a good seller!

 

[hurricane56]

My friend has a HF1100, it has a 12T sticker on it. I guess one can’t actually know without opening it up. The plot thickens.

 

[erider_61]

My friend has a HF1100, it has a 12T sticker on it. I guess one can’t actually know without opening it up. The plot thickens.

More like CASE CLOSED when Tora the Owner of Juiced Bikes states it is a 12T motor. Or we going to play the conspiracy theory here?

 

[tomjasz]

You know of course that MAC motors CAN be run higher than rated? Not sure how far a12T can be pushed without seriously over heating...

 

[Ken M]

Tora responded that it was a 12T so I kind of have to believe him. I just don't understand the big disparity between the speed claims vs winding configurations and even the Grin Simulator but Tora is a strong rider so that is the likely performance boost. I didn't mean to conclude there was intentional deception because there is nothing to gain by claiming 12T if riding a 6T....I just wondered how he was sustaining a 30+mph cruise speed with a 12T @ 48V when simulations seemed to indicate that the assist would essentially be non-existent at those speeds.

I will still plug Juiced Cycles because I like their ebikes/products. I tend to think hub motors are just a better solution for urban mobility ebikes vs mid drives but I realize that is a highly contested opinion. I really like that the HF1100 has street tires instead of fat tire knobbies - I think that is a better configuration for the ideal market for that bike (fast and comfortable makes sense).

 

[tomjasz]

Yeah, people look the other way for them, much like Luna. But that's just the way of the eBike world. IT IS a misrepresentation. And that's sad. I was very happy to see someone using a MAC on their builds. Simply one of the best drives for all round use. But I'd have expected to be able to match the speed without being an aggressive spandex rider. That said, if you're happy, who is anyone else to disrupt your parade...

 

[Ken M]

Yeah, people look the other way for them, much like Luna. But that's just the way of the eBike world. IT IS a misrepresentation. And that's sad. I was very happy to see someone using a MAC on their builds. Simply one of the best drives for all round use. But I'd have expected to be able to match the speed without being an aggressive spandex rider. That said, if you're happy, who is anyone else to disrupt your parade...

Hi Thomas, How many miles do you think you can get with a MAC under typical urban riding conditions (not hot roding around) before the gears have to be replaced?

I've read some people having to replace Bafang gears under 2000 miles. I would hope to get a minimum of 10,000 miles or about 2 years of riding for me. If I can't get that many miles from the gears, then I'd strongly lean towards a direct drive hub motor that may be a bit less peppy at the slower speeds.

 

[Ken M]

HF1100 are using 12T Motors.

Thanks for feedback. Keep up the ebike efforts. I think you are a strong rider and I enjoyed your video regardless of my ??? the top assist speed of a 12T (lots of parameters are involved and the simulations are not always rock solid).

I was going to be in San Diego and Escondido towards the end of this month and early February. Might check in sometime.