What about a clamp on front derailleur? Might look a bit odd on single chainring and not sure if can be done with carbon frame.
Issues with the Turbo Creo SL (all variants)
- Thread starter arnoldc
- Start date
e-levity
Active Member
I'm not convinced of the value of the Praxis "Wave Tech" chain tooth design. The teeth are all narrow, ~2mm thick, and simply alternate in an in-and-out "wave" pattern. This is claimed to create a "more open area for mud and debris" and to result in less wear, but I think it sacrifices chain retention. The teeth on a typical Narrow-Wide chain ring are ~2mm (narrow) and ~3.5mm (wide), and this helps with chain grip and prevents skipping. I'm willing to give up some mud clearance and accept a bit more wear to have the chain stay on.
I've never dropped a chain using N-W chainrings without guides, but I have dropped the chain on my Creo's Praxis ring when I neglected to have the clutch engaged. I'm going to switch to a N-W style chainring as I want to go down to 42t on my Comp Carbon EVO bike for lower gearing anyway (42t will still allow me to spin a little over 30mph). I'm just waiting for the right length chainring bolts. The GRX clutch is pretty strong and should prevent chain drop when used with a N-W chainring.
Captain Slow
Well-Known Member
The only time I had the chain "drop" on my Creo is when I was riding uphill and I wanted to get to the largest cog. I shifted and it went past the cog and my chain got stuck between the cassette and spokes.
In my case adjusting the limit screw on the derailleur solved my problem.
In my case adjusting the limit screw on the derailleur solved my problem.
Hey Slow. Thanks for the response.
My chain is dropping off the front chain ring, not the rear cassette. It happened today, yet again, when I forgot that I had to avoid using the largest rear cog. That shouldn't be limit-screw dependent, right? And my gears were recently indexed when I had tubeless tires set up.
It's really annoying since I ride quite a bit off tarmac, and with the hills, that largest cog is greatly appreciated.
Does anyone know what adapter would fit on the Creo seat tubes?? Then I believe that I could attach a guard.
I have the same problem with mine, and if the chain stays on, it’s noisy and bumpy, anyone have a potential solution?
e-levity
Active Member
As described in post #62 above Mrs e-levity and I switched from the Praxis Wave chainrings to conventional Narrow-Wide chainrings. We were not experiencing significant problems with chain drop, but wanted lower gearing and chose to go with tried-and-true NW rings. We just returned from our first ride with 42t and 44t NW rings and they seemed smoother and quieter than the Praxis 46t ring. In addition, we did not have the chain drop off even riding rough conditions off-pavement with the derailleur clutch off (done as a test and to allow easier shifting). So far so good, but of course we need to see how they behave after more miles.
My recommendation for those having problems with the Praxis chainrings would be to
1) check that your chain is not worn ("stretched"),
2) make sure your chain is clean and well lubricated,
3) check the derailleur SIS and B-screw adjustments, and
4) confirm that the derailleur clutch is engaged.
If you're still having problems consider a NW chainring.
For those riding off-road with steep climbs a smaller chainring will also reduce the need to use the larger cassette cogs and thereby reduce cross-over chainline issues.
My recommendation for those having problems with the Praxis chainrings would be to
1) check that your chain is not worn ("stretched"),
2) make sure your chain is clean and well lubricated,
3) check the derailleur SIS and B-screw adjustments, and
4) confirm that the derailleur clutch is engaged.
If you're still having problems consider a NW chainring.
For those riding off-road with steep climbs a smaller chainring will also reduce the need to use the larger cassette cogs and thereby reduce cross-over chainline issues.
artiebulger
New Member
Is anyone else experiencing broken spokes on the R470db wheels? I've broken 3 in as many months, and I've only had the bike for 4 months. One broke yesterday while I was going downhill at 70km/h. Rear wheel wobble nearly threw me off the bike and into a parked car. It's getting to the point where I don't want to ride the thing for fear of being injured. I've written to Rider Care, haven't heard back.
Aside from the HEC1400 Spline wheels, any other options for aftermarket besides a custom wheelset?
Aside from the HEC1400 Spline wheels, any other options for aftermarket besides a custom wheelset?
Ebiker01
Well-Known Member
How much do you weight ? Or are you a power rider ? As in 600-1000watts for a hard acceleration ?
I don't own the Creo, but need to know about your issue, as i am still considering it for purchase. For now the BMC ONE AMP Road is superior from my my research but the looks are better with Creo....
artiebulger
New Member
I’m at 280. ~800w or so accelerating in the saddle, about 1200-1300w for hard acceleration out of the saddle.
I’m quite enjoying the Creo, aside from it trying to kill me. I picked it over the SuperSix Evo Neo because it had the more powerful motor and better battery life. I had a Giant Road-E+1 Pro 2020 before. Power delivery felt really unnatural, and it was extremely heavy, around 45lbs. No broken spokes on that bike though, or on my SystemSix. And with the boost spacing, I can’t find replacement wheels that aren’t rare and expensive.
Captain Slow
Well-Known Member
I haven't had the chain drop off my front chain ring.
Ebiker01
Well-Known Member
I'm not familiar with this (boost spacing), if it's doable, a custom build and tensioned rear wheel with 28/32spokes should be a lot stronger.
> I’m at 280. ~800w or so accelerating in the saddle, about 1200-1300w for hard acceleration out of the saddle.
280 lbs only you "naked"? And such a strong rider? This is far over the Creo limits, which is (at least here in Germany) 240 lbs. With clothing, shoes, bag, water you pass this by 50 lbs.
I think the frame can handle this, but not the default wheels. I'm exactly at the limit, 230 lbs just me, 240 ready to go and I already can feel the rear wheel soft and flexing at strong uphills or fast&rough downhills.
>Aside from the HEC1400 Spline wheels, any other options for aftermarket besides a custom wheelset?
The HEC 1400 110/148mm are good and much stronger than the default wheels but still not strong enough for 280-290 lbs driver+rest.
The rim is still very narrow with 19mm. I would ask a good wheelbuilder for custom wheels with 24-25mm inner wide which helps a lot for superstrong wheels. And 28/28 or 28/32 spokes and right and left side different spokes (I don't know the English expression for that technique...). The rare 12x110 dimension in the front is no problem for a good wheel builder, the can "mix" something for example out of different DT Swiss hubs.
My new wheels arrive monday... ;-)
I forgot the HGC 1400 with also 12x110 which have 24mm inner wide and seem to be the strongest DT swiss wheels in this class.
And the HG1800 Spline DB25 which seem to have a similar rim and weight limits, just alloy rim and a cheaper hub. The wheel set
starts here at 300 Euro, of course not very light, about 300g more than the HGC 1400 with carbon rims and DT240 hub. But I guess not much heavier than the default R470 DB set and surely much stronger.
280 lbs only you "naked"? And such a strong rider? This is far over the Creo limits, which is (at least here in Germany) 240 lbs. With clothing, shoes, bag, water you pass this by 50 lbs.
I think the frame can handle this, but not the default wheels. I'm exactly at the limit, 230 lbs just me, 240 ready to go and I already can feel the rear wheel soft and flexing at strong uphills or fast&rough downhills.
>Aside from the HEC1400 Spline wheels, any other options for aftermarket besides a custom wheelset?
The HEC 1400 110/148mm are good and much stronger than the default wheels but still not strong enough for 280-290 lbs driver+rest.
The rim is still very narrow with 19mm. I would ask a good wheelbuilder for custom wheels with 24-25mm inner wide which helps a lot for superstrong wheels. And 28/28 or 28/32 spokes and right and left side different spokes (I don't know the English expression for that technique...). The rare 12x110 dimension in the front is no problem for a good wheel builder, the can "mix" something for example out of different DT Swiss hubs.
My new wheels arrive monday... ;-)
I forgot the HGC 1400 with also 12x110 which have 24mm inner wide and seem to be the strongest DT swiss wheels in this class.
And the HG1800 Spline DB25 which seem to have a similar rim and weight limits, just alloy rim and a cheaper hub. The wheel set
starts here at 300 Euro, of course not very light, about 300g more than the HGC 1400 with carbon rims and DT240 hub. But I guess not much heavier than the default R470 DB set and surely much stronger.
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Captain Slow
Well-Known Member
I think he meant he generates 280 watts, not that he weighs 280 lbs, but maybe I'm mistaken.
artiebulger
New Member
Thanks for this, Jodi. Appreciate it. I weigh 245. I guess that would put me well over the weight limit all-in anyway. I bought the bike in person at an LBS. The guy who sold it to me is 6’4” and weighs 270. He rides Specialized (not that that means anything
). He didn’t mention the wheels as a potential issue at all, or I’d have looked at a different eBike or swapped the wheels out at the onset.My gripe is if I’m spending this kind of money on a bike, one that’s already heavyish (relative), I expect A) that it be specced with eBike specific wheels; or B) that I be told the wheels are trash + weight limit is X (I researched this bike and couldn’t expressly find weight limits on it). Before this bike I had a 44lb Giant Road-E+1 Pro...and I had no issues with broken spokes, or any components really. I didn’t expect this.
I will check out the HG1800 Spline as an alternative. I have ENVE wheels on my SystemSix. I’d like the Creo to be my everything bike, I don’t really need top-end wheels on it (I may change my mind later, but
).Thanks again, mate.
Spot on.
So you are at a similar weight like me, slightly more. Than the default Creo wheels are definitely not suited for you. My Creo is now one month old, so I know what to expect. Good that I already ordered better wheels...
Don't waste your time with complaining. I'm 25 years at this weight and had cheap or default wheels fine for years and some very soon with trouble/broken spokes even at expensive bikes. No brand or dealer ever looked at me and said "Oh, you may be a little bit over the weight limit, you should loose some weight/choose another bike or other wheels...". No one ever was even asking, what is my weight. A wheel builder does.
The creo as a racing bike with only 24 spokes may be also more sensitive, most of my other bikes had 32 spokes, some 36, some 28, few 24. The Giant you had also seems to have at least 28 spokes in the rear.
If you are not at on a weight weenie trip with your Creo the HG1800 should be a much better and cheap alternative than the R470DB!
Don't waste your time with complaining. I'm 25 years at this weight and had cheap or default wheels fine for years and some very soon with trouble/broken spokes even at expensive bikes. No brand or dealer ever looked at me and said "Oh, you may be a little bit over the weight limit, you should loose some weight/choose another bike or other wheels...". No one ever was even asking, what is my weight. A wheel builder does.
The creo as a racing bike with only 24 spokes may be also more sensitive, most of my other bikes had 32 spokes, some 36, some 28, few 24. The Giant you had also seems to have at least 28 spokes in the rear.
If you are not at on a weight weenie trip with your Creo the HG1800 should be a much better and cheap alternative than the R470DB!
Captain Slow
Well-Known Member
jodi2 where did you order wheels from? Aside from getting custom wheels built I have not been able to find a set of aftermarket wheels for the bike.
artiebulger
New Member
DT Swiss HEC 1400 Spline 42mm and 62mm
DT Swiss HGC 1400 Spline 47mm
DT Swiss HG 1800 Spline 25mm
These are the ones I've found, all on Bike24.
DT Swiss is (really) a swiss brand and quite common here in Germany. All the new wheels with the still rare 12x110 front dimension are quite new, also here still not avalaible in all Shops with DT Swiss wheels. Maybe it takes a little bit longer outside Europe? Look for some DT Swiss dealers near you and ask them.
I did not order the new DT Swiss wheels, I ordered custom made from a good wheel builder.
I did not order the new DT Swiss wheels, I ordered custom made from a good wheel builder.
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