Instead of banning certain members...
- Thread starter Stefan Mikes
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Stefan Mikes
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"Four Russian Tanks, each of them destroyed by a single rocket".
DaveMatthews
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1x4=0
Comfortably Numb
Well-Known Member
That wasn't what came up for me when I clicked the link. That's why I asked.
CN
Comfortably Numb
Well-Known Member
There are just so many things suspect about that video. CN
Russia’s tanks in Ukraine have a ‘jack-in-the-box’ design flaw.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/27/europe/russia-tanks-blown-turrets-intl-hnk-ml/index.html
https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/27/europe/russia-tanks-blown-turrets-intl-hnk-ml/index.html
DaveMatthews
Well-Known Member
Part of me loves those pictures, but the bigger part of me hates the fact they exist.A man rides a bike near a destroyed Russian tank near Brovary, near Kyiv, Ukraine, on April 15.
Russian Tank
Russian Tank
Russian Tank
Russian Tank
Handlebars
Well-Known Member
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- Canada
There's more than one war ongoing.
Here is government of Ontario data on which group is more likely to be covid cases. Look at the spread increasing as well.
March 17 2022
Not Fully Vaccinated: 7.77 per 100,000
Fully Vaccinated : 11.48
Boosted: 12.23
April 27 2022
Not Fully Vaccinated: 15.53
Fully Vaccinated 14.53
Boosted: 30.63
Bear in mind that the group "Not Fully Vaccinated" is the former group "Unvaccinated" being flooded with all vaccinated who become cases within 2 weeks after vaccination, even if it was their 2nd vaccination.
Here is government of Ontario data on which group is more likely to be covid cases. Look at the spread increasing as well.
March 17 2022
Not Fully Vaccinated: 7.77 per 100,000
Fully Vaccinated : 11.48
Boosted: 12.23
April 27 2022
Not Fully Vaccinated: 15.53
Fully Vaccinated 14.53
Boosted: 30.63
Bear in mind that the group "Not Fully Vaccinated" is the former group "Unvaccinated" being flooded with all vaccinated who become cases within 2 weeks after vaccination, even if it was their 2nd vaccination.
theemartymac
Well-Known Member
That's just classic T72 behavior when hit. Russia was late to the party in designing modular ammo storage with blowout panels so that the crew might survive. In fact, they sit right on top of the ammo. "In Soviet Russia" Conscripts are cheaper than tanks. ;-)
That article is IMHO overly simplistic and a bit sensational (klick bait titling). There's really nothing new here, It's been known for a long time that the ammunition can be more vulnerable in some tank designs. But whether or not the turret blows off or not is really immaterial, the question is a) is the crew out of commission and b) is the tank physically damaged enough so it can't easily be put back into action. Also not much holds a tank's multi ton turret in place, it's primarily it's weight.
High energy sabots (kinetic energy rounds used by tanks against tanks) have truly horrific effects on humans inside a tank. If a sabot penetrates a tank the high energy pieces cause the inside walls of the tank to spall creating clouds of shrapnel. Even after penetrating the tank's armor the sabot pieces usually retain enough energy to penetrate just about any internal divides and armored ammunition storage. The shrapnel also usually penetrates small caliber ammunition storage which all starts to burn fiercely. At this point whether the turret blows off or not is rather immaterial, the crew and tank are done.
HEAT rounds (high energy explosive warheads, the kind used on most anti tank weapons) have some similar effects but a more compartmentalized tank design does appear to do a better job protecting the crew from blast effects. So some crew can survive if they get out quickly but the tank is still usually out of commission. It's also true that many of the Russian smaller armored and crew transport vehicles are not well compartmentalized and generally appear to be really poor at protecting the humans, they don't seem to have changed a lot in overall design from the 60/70s.
The difference in most tank internal designs usually just means a visual difference after an attack, either the tank's turret is blown off or it just burns like a blow torch ... but both are out of commission and usually can't be recovered. See the pics of the American Abrams tanks destroyed in Iraq or Syria for examples of the blow torch effect, I think there are 9, and ignore the pics of the tanks abandoned and destroyed in place by the Americans.
So pictures of tanks and other armored vehicles without turrets isn't on it's own really a good indication of how effective they are. It's much more about the penetration protection, maneuverability, and offensive capabilities.
Catalyzt
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Had to de-ignore just to see who will be reading anything I might post, and looks like they are at it again: Stats and no links. No idea where the numbers are coming for, or many of the charts that were posted. They called on this again and again and it never changes. On the rare occasions when they do cite a source? That source has the same lack of citations! As we shall see presently, but...
It is too bad we will never be able to have a serious conversation-- and trust me, we never will, because things have been said here that can never be unsaid.
But it's a shame, because if we rolled back the clock, there might have been some common ground. And some of Putin's useful idiots might tighten up their thinking a bit about both wars-- the war on whatever's left of democracy by the Russians, and the war on the virus being waged by the rest of us who had some hope-- even if we knew the odds were long-- that basic human decency might inspire us to cooperate in the face of a common threat.
What's obvious to any HCP and probably everyone else: The vaccine is not working nearly as well for the Omicron variants as it did for the A and B variant-- depressing, but not a huge surprise, that was a lot of us were saying in January. It was also clear even last July that it didn't even work that well for Delta, though it was better. I don't think anyone is even arguing about that, so that could have been a starting point for a serious discussion-- a missed opportunity.
And I think the EU is wise to tap the brakes r.e. a second booster. I never wanted to get endless vaccinations, that was never my plan, anyway. Third missed opportunity for the interesting discussion we could have had if some of us actually meant it when we said we only wanted honest debate instead of trolling.
The first plan would have been for everyone to mask up, so we didn't need a damn vaccine, and the second play would have been for everyone to get vaccinated as quickly as possible, as I did, even though I always doubted it would wipe out the virus because there would be too many holdouts, and there might be new variants. It was worth trying-- it bought us some time, and it might have bought us a lot more.
But the people who sabotaged the plan are now complaining that it didn't work. If there's a better example of circular logic, I can't think of one.
Here's a quote from crypto-fascist attorney and useful idiot Daniel Horowitz's article about some "new Danish study" -- and, my Loyal Brothers and Sisters of the Electric Wheel, I suffered through the whole article so you don't have to, and what a quivering pile of sh*t it is. The "Danish Study" was never named, no link was provided, so you can't check the research yourself and see if it was quoted out of context. Horowitz was BORN a troll.
Anyway, here's someone Horowitz quotes, but again, fails to identify:
"The fall from peak cases to the most recent data point is also interesting. Case rates in the unvaccinated, single dosed and the double dosed have all fallen approximately 45% since their respective peaks, however, case rates in the triple vaccinated have only fallen approximately 20% since their peak."
Okay, sure. I can easily believe that, and it is interesting! Hell yeah, I'd want to study that. But...
"This is rather concerning, as it suggests that we might find that the boosted population maintain a viral reservoir for Covid, ensuring that case rates take much longer to fall to trivial levels and hindering attempts to get society back to a post-Covid normal."
Yes, I think that is possible-- though it's a completely different argument than antivaxers were making before, but hey, when I was 14 years old, I seized on any statistic I could find that supported my conclusion because I wanted to be right so much! That is why people who actually know what they are talking about and have skin in the game are searching for these viral reservoirs and trying to determine their significance. That's been going on for years. Just because a virus hides somewhere doesn't mean it will be infectious... seems like a long shot, but not impossible, and sure, if that happened, that would be kreepy as fuk.
But... these are 'respective' peaks that occurred at different times, so... isn't it also possible, and way more likely, that the peak for the the triple vaxed was later, and occurred during surges of later variants that can evade the vaccine? And isn't comparing infection rates in New Zealand and Africa a totally fraudulent exercise because they could have been facing totally different variants? Any suckers here who are gonna pay a nickel for that whopper?
One thing we've learned just in the last two months: Omicron B.1 and Omicron B.2 are very, very different because... well, you can wander around and talk to people who were infected in both January and April, and they'll probably tell you that they had very different symptoms. What my patients are telling me is that B.2 is much more severe than B.1, but that's only one guy's clinical but anecdotal observation based on a small sample in a small community.
What's really... special... is Horowitz's crackpot theories about New Zealand! *Gasp* = "there is nowhere to escape the obvious fact that there were basically no COVID deaths until 2022" and he shows this chart of deaths peaking in mid April: "Well, in fact, New Zealand experienced nearly all of its deaths precisely after all of this (mass vaccination) was accomplished in March 2022! And with the mildest of variants!"
Uh, no. The "mildest" variant so far was probably B.1., and even that killed people. Horowitz, actually, has no idea what variant peaked in New Zealand in mid April 2022, and neither do we, but if it was Omicron B.2, which is peaking in some places right now, only a few weeks after the New Zealand Surge-- like where I am-- it's a lot nastier than B.1. I have no trouble believing it killed a lot of vaccinated people in New Zealand, that's exactly what I'd expect because B.2 evades vaccination, boosting, and even evades immunity from prior infection with multiple variants, and I have witnessed this with my own eyes.
Just in case any new members are taking out kommode kommandos seriously, here's what I found for Ontario.
Source: Ontario Public Health
Link: https://www.publichealthontario.ca/...nfirmed-cases-post-vaccination.pdf?sc_lang=en
It is too bad we will never be able to have a serious conversation-- and trust me, we never will, because things have been said here that can never be unsaid.
But it's a shame, because if we rolled back the clock, there might have been some common ground. And some of Putin's useful idiots might tighten up their thinking a bit about both wars-- the war on whatever's left of democracy by the Russians, and the war on the virus being waged by the rest of us who had some hope-- even if we knew the odds were long-- that basic human decency might inspire us to cooperate in the face of a common threat.
What's obvious to any HCP and probably everyone else: The vaccine is not working nearly as well for the Omicron variants as it did for the A and B variant-- depressing, but not a huge surprise, that was a lot of us were saying in January. It was also clear even last July that it didn't even work that well for Delta, though it was better. I don't think anyone is even arguing about that, so that could have been a starting point for a serious discussion-- a missed opportunity.
And I think the EU is wise to tap the brakes r.e. a second booster. I never wanted to get endless vaccinations, that was never my plan, anyway. Third missed opportunity for the interesting discussion we could have had if some of us actually meant it when we said we only wanted honest debate instead of trolling.
The first plan would have been for everyone to mask up, so we didn't need a damn vaccine, and the second play would have been for everyone to get vaccinated as quickly as possible, as I did, even though I always doubted it would wipe out the virus because there would be too many holdouts, and there might be new variants. It was worth trying-- it bought us some time, and it might have bought us a lot more.
But the people who sabotaged the plan are now complaining that it didn't work. If there's a better example of circular logic, I can't think of one.
Here's a quote from crypto-fascist attorney and useful idiot Daniel Horowitz's article about some "new Danish study" -- and, my Loyal Brothers and Sisters of the Electric Wheel, I suffered through the whole article so you don't have to, and what a quivering pile of sh*t it is. The "Danish Study" was never named, no link was provided, so you can't check the research yourself and see if it was quoted out of context. Horowitz was BORN a troll.
Anyway, here's someone Horowitz quotes, but again, fails to identify:
"The fall from peak cases to the most recent data point is also interesting. Case rates in the unvaccinated, single dosed and the double dosed have all fallen approximately 45% since their respective peaks, however, case rates in the triple vaccinated have only fallen approximately 20% since their peak."
Okay, sure. I can easily believe that, and it is interesting! Hell yeah, I'd want to study that. But...
"This is rather concerning, as it suggests that we might find that the boosted population maintain a viral reservoir for Covid, ensuring that case rates take much longer to fall to trivial levels and hindering attempts to get society back to a post-Covid normal."
Yes, I think that is possible-- though it's a completely different argument than antivaxers were making before, but hey, when I was 14 years old, I seized on any statistic I could find that supported my conclusion because I wanted to be right so much! That is why people who actually know what they are talking about and have skin in the game are searching for these viral reservoirs and trying to determine their significance. That's been going on for years. Just because a virus hides somewhere doesn't mean it will be infectious... seems like a long shot, but not impossible, and sure, if that happened, that would be kreepy as fuk.
But... these are 'respective' peaks that occurred at different times, so... isn't it also possible, and way more likely, that the peak for the the triple vaxed was later, and occurred during surges of later variants that can evade the vaccine? And isn't comparing infection rates in New Zealand and Africa a totally fraudulent exercise because they could have been facing totally different variants? Any suckers here who are gonna pay a nickel for that whopper?
One thing we've learned just in the last two months: Omicron B.1 and Omicron B.2 are very, very different because... well, you can wander around and talk to people who were infected in both January and April, and they'll probably tell you that they had very different symptoms. What my patients are telling me is that B.2 is much more severe than B.1, but that's only one guy's clinical but anecdotal observation based on a small sample in a small community.
What's really... special... is Horowitz's crackpot theories about New Zealand! *Gasp* = "there is nowhere to escape the obvious fact that there were basically no COVID deaths until 2022" and he shows this chart of deaths peaking in mid April: "Well, in fact, New Zealand experienced nearly all of its deaths precisely after all of this (mass vaccination) was accomplished in March 2022! And with the mildest of variants!"
Uh, no. The "mildest" variant so far was probably B.1., and even that killed people. Horowitz, actually, has no idea what variant peaked in New Zealand in mid April 2022, and neither do we, but if it was Omicron B.2, which is peaking in some places right now, only a few weeks after the New Zealand Surge-- like where I am-- it's a lot nastier than B.1. I have no trouble believing it killed a lot of vaccinated people in New Zealand, that's exactly what I'd expect because B.2 evades vaccination, boosting, and even evades immunity from prior infection with multiple variants, and I have witnessed this with my own eyes.
Just in case any new members are taking out kommode kommandos seriously, here's what I found for Ontario.
Source: Ontario Public Health
Link: https://www.publichealthontario.ca/...nfirmed-cases-post-vaccination.pdf?sc_lang=en
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Just read in The Seattle Times column which debunks internet lies that Denmark has not stopped vaccinations. They have stopped having mass vaccination events. The reason given is that the majority of Danes have been vaccinated completely and there is less demand now. They still encourage vaccination and it is ongoing.
The Times has a paywall and also seems to have something installed so articles cannot be copied and pasted. The blurb was from yesterday's paper.
The Times has a paywall and also seems to have something installed so articles cannot be copied and pasted. The blurb was from yesterday's paper.
Mr. Coffee
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I simply cannot believe we are still having any discussion about vaccinations for COVID. The numbers are in and it is pretty damned clear that you are at least ten times less likely to die if you are vaccinated than if you are not.
Waiting to get my appointment for my second booster next week. Living and living well is the best revenge.
Waiting to get my appointment for my second booster next week. Living and living well is the best revenge.
mschwett
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yes, it boggles the mind. the growing lunatic fringe’s war on science (or “elitism,” as i guess it’s called now) is going to be one of the defining characteristics of our time. so sad.
i have a relative - a second cousin i guess - who lost her spot in a well regarded PhD program because she refused to get vaccinated. the irony…
PatriciaK
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I got my second Moderna booster yesterday, after finally recovering enough from my marathon of respiratory issues to be healthy enough to receive it...
Maybe a tiny little insect will help to reverse climate change.
www.yahoo.com
The tick that makes people allergic to red meat is in D.C.
Our recent warm weather has reawakened ticks, and one tick, in particular, is becoming more common in the Washington D.C. area: the lone star tick. One bite from this tick, which is easily identified by the white spot on its back if it's female, can make people have adverse reactions to eating...
Catalyzt
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My buddy got his second booster (fourth shot) 5 days ago, and still feels a bit off. Moderna in particular seems to be rough, but I'm not hearing about anyone with a normal immune system having any lasting problems from a Moderna second boost.
Obviously I agree-- I'm at high risk for the vaccine, and I had three jabs anyway, because the numbers were very compelling. But actually, I wish we lived in a world where we could discuss it. It's not clear to me that what worked last summer and fall will work as well this summer, or that they will work for everyone. It depends on the vaccine and depends on the variant and depends on the immune health of the person getting a shot. Maybe most people can get a shot every three to six months for 3, 5, or 10 years... but I don't think I'm one of them. I have not felt right since the third shot, and have had to cut back on exercise a lot-- and for someone with my autoiummune condition, that's a serious, potentially life-shortening issue.
By email, my doctor says, "Get the fourth shot." On the phone, however, she says, "I know it's a tough decision."
I work face-to-face with some COVID patients, though outdoors and with an N95. Indoors, I take even stronger precautions. I went to two four-hour jam sessions this weekend, and wore a half-face reusable respirator the entire time. So far, the high-grade masks and respirators are providing outstanding protection from infection, even from the more contagious variants, so for now, I'm going with that and holding at 3x Pfizer. I'll see how I feel in July-- what vaccine is available then-- and reassess.
I am actually on the fence about vaccine mandates. In some situations, I think they make sense. In others, not so much. It made sense to me last summer and even in the fall, but if someone agrees to wear a high-grade mask in the office, should we really be excluding them from a PhD program?
Am I at greater risk standing next to an unvaccinated person wearing a high grade mask, or a vaccinated person with no mask? I don't know, I'm keeping an open mind on that one. Right now, I think I'll stand next to the guy wearing the mask.
I totally agree about the war on science, though it also seems like a war on common sense and open dialogue. That disturbs me just as much.
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