I got to be doing something wrong.

[Gionnirocket]

If eco 1 is too weak, keep increasing the number until it works.
If none of the eco modes are strong enough, try all of the sport modes in increasing order

And same goes for the rear gears. This should be determined by the speed you are trying to maintain. If you are starting to slow with hard pedaling, continue down in gears all the way to the 34t before you stall. Your gear shifting and PAS selection should stay ahead of the current situation keeping the pedaling relatively easy. More easily done when you gain some experience. Keep in mind that shifting gears under heavy load is hard on the drivetrain.

 

[AHicks]

X2 on the experience! You'll figure it out. There are no set in stone rules. You just need to figure out what works for you. In some situations, like this one it sounds like, it's going to take some messing around to figure out what works, and what might work better! (think of experience as a series of failures you've since conquered?)

If you're messing with a steep hill, don't be shy of using PAS 3 or 4 (think more power, whatever it takes, you have plenty available). If trying to max mileage per charge, don't use the big power any longer than necessary. Start decreasing PAS levels as you crest the hill for instance.

As far as what gear to be in, that's really what determines your speed. I don't like climbing in anything slower than 3rd or 4th (your 26 and 23). It's too easy to stall out when going any slower.

And last, for me, I've found that rather than trying to shift gears as the bike is stalling/slowing because it's not right (you've miscalculated something and are trying to recover), rather than shifting to a lower gear, moving to a higher PAS level often works MUCH better as it's faster, there's no worry over a proper shift, AND because there's no chance the slight shift sensor delay is going to kill what momentum you have left.....

 

[California Flash]

I have this paved road, I have tried twice, both times I failed to make it,
all information is confirmed via GPS and Google Earth measurements.

Information on this road, 6.25 miles long, 971' elevation gain,
starting point is at 4165' elevation (GPS reading of 41*13-32N/118*22-27W) and ending point is at 5136', (summit) (40*12-09N/118*16-22W), google earth sat view readings,
one long steady uphill climb with approximately a 29% grade.

I am using my new Wart Hog Ebike MD 750w dual battery, 48v/30ah,
which I have had just about 30 days now, with the following gears.
This info is from Bikonits site,
Sram X-5 - 9 speeds, DNP 13T-34T with KMC Chain etc.
The tooth count is as follows,
Big main peddle gear = 44T
Big gear on back sprocket =34
next smaller = 30
next smaller =26
next smaller =23
next smaller =20
next smaller =17
next smaller = 15
last smaller =11
I used the 17t, 20t and 23t, starting in 17 and then ascending in gear choice, as it get steeper, and I am running out of leg power, tire pressure is 30 psi, no wind/weather conditions to contend with.

Both times it feels like the bike's battery is out of juice, using the Eco setting, via hard peddling, until I can't peddle any farther, I have not and will not use the thumb throttle, just using Shanks Mare power.
I have found out since these failed attempts, that I have a BAD battery that WILL NOT hold a charge, so I only have 1 battery to explore with, until the new one gets here.

I will attempt another go at this hill, after I charge the 1 remaining battery back up.

IS it me or the bike's fault, yes, I am a new rider, (75yrs old), but I can walk 10-15miles per day, the bike weighs right at 85lbs, loaded with the pack/gear and I weigh in at 200 lbs.
or am I doing something wrong?

Your thoughts and suggestions.......
Tia,
Don

Don,

According to the online grade calculator I used the average gradient from the bottom of your climb to the top is 2.94%, not 29%. There could be sections in the road that are a little steeper than the overall percentage of 2.94%. Example, many roads in the Tour de France have an overall gradient of 8% but within the overall length of the climb there could be sections of 10%-15% or more.

To climb your steepest hills, you should be on the largest sprocket (34 tooth) on the rear. Check with your dealer to see what options are available to decreasing the front chainring and increasing the biggest gear on your rear cassette.

I have a hill in my area (Michigan) that is climbed regularly. It is 10% from bottom to top. My bike (Allant + 8s) has a 40 tooth chainring (standard equipment was 46 tooth) and an 11-46 cassette (11-42 standard). This combination allows me to climb this hill with no issues using SPORT mode which generates 60Nm of torque.

You may want to contact the manufacturer for help.

 

[ruffruff]

To get some experience the first thing I would do is find a fairly level road and try ALL the PAS levels and shift all the way up and down through the gears in each PAS level so you get a feel for what you are dealing with.

I tend to set a realistic PAS level and then shift gears so I can maintain my cadence and speed and only change PAS level if I run out of gears. But that comes with experience.

Also having two batteries will NOT increase your power, it will only increase your range. The batteries are wired in parallel so the controller sees the same voltage from the batteries but has the added amperage for longer run time.
Kirchoff's law,
batteries in series-voltage adds up Amps stays the same.
batteries in parallel-voltage stays the same Amps add up.


AND good to hear from another ebike hunter.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Also having two batteries will NOT increase your power

Not necessarily true... In general having two batteries in parallel will allow for greater available current and less voltage sag.. Hence having more power readily available.
Power or wattage = A x V
Increase either A or V and W is increased

 

[jawn]

Yep, you had a misplaced decimal point on the grade %.

Maximum climbing ability will be with the 34T gear and power level 5.
You should try those settings just to see what happens, then you can back down.
Don't worry about battery usage while you are experimenting. That can come later.

It's stupid that they put a 44T chainwheel on these bikes. Once you figure out how everything works you might consider a smaller one.

 

[Nvreloader]

Thanks Guys
FWIW,
I normally run in the 11T -15T gear and average 10-15mph with my normal peddle rates, on the flat ground around here.
I'll have to go down to the local ag airstrip (normally it is un used),
and do some testing, with peddle and thumb throttle etc.

Would noting the watts reading be of any use?
I really don't care about the speed, as you don't want that for hunting,
and tricky trail ridding, IMHO.

Seeing that I only have the 1 good battery,
I should have twice the range with both batteries, when used about the same way?
I just checked and the battery is charged to 54.1V = 94% and I'll use it down to the
43.7V range = 30%.

This is turning into a real learning session for me,
I never had this much trouble riding my Honda Trail 90.....bike,
with it's 4 speed trans, with Hi/Lo settings .. LoL.

Thanks,
Don

 

[jawn]

Even a heavy bike is easy to motivate on level ground.
But your bike is over 80 pounds and the slightest incline requires a lot more power.

 

[jawn]

Going 15mph in the 11T gear is a cadence (pedal rpm) around 50. Too slow.
Using the 13T gear (or 38T chainring) would be around 60. Better.

 

[ruffruff]

Thanks Guys
FWIW,
I normally run in the 11T -15T gear and average 10-15mph with my normal peddle rates, on the flat ground around here.
I'll have to go down to the local ag airstrip (normally it is un used),
and do some testing, with peddle and thumb throttle etc.

Would noting the watts reading be of any use?
I really don't care about the speed, as you don't want that for hunting,
and tricky trail ridding, IMHO.

Seeing that I only have the 1 good battery,
I should have twice the range with both batteries, when used about the same way?
I just checked and the battery is charged to 54.1V = 94% and I'll use it down to the
43.7V range = 30%.

This is turning into a real learning session for me,
I never had this much trouble riding my Honda Trail 90.....bike,
with it's 4 speed trans, with Hi/Lo settings .. LoL.

Thanks,
Don

Don't over think this. Just ride it like a regular bike and you'll get use to it.

 

[AHicks]

Don, if you find yourself running on the smaller gears most of the time to get a cadence level that's comfortable, that front chain ring is too SMALL. Ultra motors run mostly on the 11 and 13t gears will have an accelerated drive line wear rate. On the 11t for sure, as well as a 13, there's just not enough gear teeth there to dissipate/spread out the load of the chain/handle the available power.

My bike came with a 44t chain ring, that was just switched for a 48t with this issue in mind. Knowing what I know now, I would have gone with a 50t for my purposes, which is generally paved or hard pack, with quite few hills.

 

[BlackHand]

Don't over think this. Just ride it like a regular bike and you'll get use to it.

Best advice yet

 

[Gionnirocket]

Best advice yet

Isn't that what he was doing before posting here?

 

[Nvreloader]

Don't laugh, I am OLD, OK
My old bike was a 21 speed bike, 3 gears switchable, on the seat post,
and 7 gears on the rear........and I had trouble with that one also. IIRR.
Don

 

[Nvreloader]

Well Guys
Tomorrow is the next attempt, The weather is supposed to be in the low 60's,
with no wind, I'll have the Garmin 60CSx running and recording the spec's.
I know that road is over the 2.9% in grade, but I'll find out, I hope.

A question for all of you that understand this Eco/Sport selection stuff,
When using the the steps 1 thru 5 in each of the Eco and Sport selection,
is there a big difference between Eco and Sport ratings,
meaning if I use 1 in both selections, what is the difference be these 2 rating?

As an example:
Eco1 assists with 5% boost and Sport 1 assists with 10% Boost?
Attempting to find the best option having the longest range possible,
while I only have the 1 battery to use at this time.
I am confused by the Eco/Sport ratings/meanings etc. ?

Tia,
Don

 

[scrambler]

The best people to answer that precisely will be the manufacturer of the bike.
Anyone without intimate knowledge of its programming will just be making assumptions.

 

[indianajo]

Programming varies between bike makers, so any specific question should be addressed on the brand forum to people that ride only your bike.
In general, you use eco if you want to maximize the distance you travel on a battery. The speed you get is low and doesn't waste energy pushing air. You use level 5 if your steepest grade is at the end of your ride and you want to get home without walking & pushing no matter what. Lots of people that bought an e-bike have the problem with their house being at the end of a steep hill.
People also use level 4 & 5 for showing off, or for whizzing through sections where there is too much traffic going too fast. I occasionally am forced to ride through single lane construction areas where lane is narrowed to 102" by barriers & cones, the sidewalks are dug up too, and the trucks behind me are really mad that a bicycle is using their road. I don't even have a license plate! I use the maximum power through those areas.
I almost always use the middle sprockets on the rear for riding, although I start out in 2 or 3 (biggest) for good acceleration. I ride without power most times, 8-9 mph which may not suit the patience level of many ebike purchasers. I use the power for headwinds that can double my trip time, or trips of over 3.5 hours where my hips have gotten sore.

 

[jawn]

Obviously Sport will have more power than Eco. I don't think you will find specific numbers.
You need to spend tomorrow just experimenting with all the different power levels. Don't worry about range until you get them figured out.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=pykOkrEpzWA

 

[Gionnirocket]

Well Guys
Tomorrow is the next attempt, The weather is supposed to be in the low 60's,
with no wind, I'll have the Garmin 60CSx running and recording the spec's.
I know that road is over the 2.9% in grade, but I'll find out, I hope.

A question for all of you that understand this Eco/Sport selection stuff,
When using the the steps 1 thru 5 in each of the Eco and Sport selection,
is there a big difference between Eco and Sport ratings,
meaning if I use 1 in both selections, what is the difference be these 2 rating?

As an example:
Eco1 assists with 5% boost and Sport 1 assists with 10% Boost?
Attempting to find the best option having the longest range possible,
while I only have the 1 battery to use at this time.
I am confused by the Eco/Sport ratings/meanings etc. ?

Tia,
Don

You're probably best off just comparing for yourself.
Ride the same stretch in one and then the other. It should be very obvious the assistance differences between the two and just know that the more assistance = the more battery being used.
I ride for exercise, so I try to use the least amount of assistance necessary to keep me moving.. but everyone's needs are different.
Choose the rear gear that you are most comfortable keeping a constant comfortable cadence with and adjust for hills and wind as necessary. Same goes for PAS and realize that you are the only one who will know what works best for you.

 

[AHicks]

I think you can figure this one out yourself as well. Your display has a built in watt meter that displays real time. Using the readings found there, it should be pretty easy to compare any PAS or mode settings from one to another. That would be the short answer. The longer answer involves just a little more, but you're still going to end up watching the watt meter.