HyperFat HF1000 - Disable Automatic Assistance? (On Demand Throttle Only for Exercising) + My Speed Limit setting isn't obeyed less than 14 MPH

[Tronic Jon]

HyperFat HF1000, finally ready to start riding now that the weather is nice.

Any Way to Disable Automatic Assistance for special occasions? Sometimes I want to focus on intense exercising some days and the assistance is just way too much at any setting. It would be nice if we could have the option to disable ALL automatic assistance but the manual throttle still works on demand in a pinch.

I can press and hold the power button to turn it off, but then I can't use the throttle anymore either.

I've disabled the Torque sensor

I've set to ECO

I've set the speed limit to 1, 5, 10, doesn't matter though. My Speed Limit setting isn't obeyed less than 14 MPH. (too much assistance)

No matter what I choose, when I peddle or hold the throttle the bike will get right up to 14 mph. Again this is too much help when I'm ready to actually get a workout in.

Suggestions/Thoughts? Is this a firmware feature request maybe?

We should have 6 modes

OFF, ECO, 1, 2, 3, SPORT
(OFF = Throttle only, no automatic assistance)

If it can be added, are we able to flash the firmware in the field with this type of new feature or would I need to ship the assembly to the Juiced office?

I watched the whole video and don't see anything that will help my needs. ECO has way too much power and feels like its more than compensating for just the weight of the bike. Again bike flies right up to 14 mph with zero effort.

 

[Tronic Jon]

I got a response from Support:

___________________________________

"Hi,

The HF has quite a lot of boost even in the lowest setting. If you just want to use it in the throttle mode, you can disconnect the torque sensor. This will effectively make the bike operate in throttle-only mode like motorcycle.
Hope this helps.
Juiced Bikes Support Team"

___________________________________

Anyone know of a mod that would allow me to disconnect the sensor via a manually added DIY switch? That way I could easily turn off all automatic assistance, yet the throttle would still work. (and I don't have to physically disconnect anything)

It sounds like it can't be done via software via the controller, is that right?

They didn't answer my question about setting any speed limit set below 14mph not working

 

[Tronic Jon]

Second response:

"To accomplish this you will need to put a inline switch between one of the brake cut switches. This will effectively make the assistance stop as the bike thinks the brake lever has been depressed."

I responded with:

"Thanks, I'll work on that DIY project for sure. Part of my original question remains though. Is the speed limit supposed to be obeyed for anything set below 15mph? If I set any speed limit number below 15mph (0, 1, 5, 10 you name it) the assistance still boosts the bike to 14mph every time. (too much boost/help) I'd be happy if I could set 5mph and it would actually be obeyed that during my want a bit more exercise days. Is this a bug in the software or technical limitation of the sensors being used? Thoughts?"

Anyone know of a nice switch that would work with the above DIY projection suggestion?

 

[Rooster]

Second response:

"To accomplish this you will need to put a inline switch between one of the brake cut switches. This will effectively make the assistance stop as the bike thinks the brake lever has been depressed."

I responded with:

"Thanks, I'll work on that DIY project for sure. Part of my original question remains though. Is the speed limit supposed to be obeyed for anything set below 15mph? If I set any speed limit number below 15mph (0, 1, 5, 10 you name it) the assistance still boosts the bike to 14mph every time. (too much boost/help) I'd be happy if I could set 5mph and it would actually be obeyed that during my want a bit more exercise days. Is this a bug in the software or technical limitation of the sensors being used? Thoughts?"

Anyone know of a nice switch that would work with the above DIY projection suggestion?

I'm seeing a lot of juiced bikes, brand new, becoming DIY projects. Something is wrong with that picture. Fairly expensive way to start a DIY project .

 

[Reid]

...Anyone know of a nice switch that would work with the above DIY projection suggestion?

This is how I mounted a tiny toggle switch that closes/shorts either pair of brake inhibitor wires.
Connecting the two wires together kills the motor assist.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LWUQIZ0/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
(is what I used, mounted with a dab of superglue after being molded into an encasement of Sugru.

I'm seeing a lot of juiced bikes, brand new, becoming DIY projects. Something is wrong with that picture. Fairly expensive way to start a DIY project .

I do not know of any production ebike with a killassist switch. That's my name for it. I just made it up.

I like the looks of a professionally made bike. Professionally designed bikes tend to look right because components are relatively well integrated. I lost interest in making a DIY bike a long time ago because it is hard to make them look as well as they function, imo. Most DIY bikes will not have a torque sensor, either. Or cadence sensor and torque sensor and a killassist switch.

 

[Asher]

Strongly agree it was a mistake not to include the setting - it could even be off by default and enabled in the deep menu as an option. I requested it before as well.

I didn't even think of the exercise aspect, since I bike hard even with assist, but two other applications:
*You want to save the battery to run the headlight for riding at night.
*You're navigating a crowded/narrow area where you need to pedal but not 15+ mph.

 

[Rooster]

This is how I mounted a tiny toggle switch that closes/shorts either pair of brake inhibitor wires.
Connecting the two wires together kills the motor assist.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LWUQIZ0/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
(is what I used, mounted with a dab of superglue after being molded into an encasement of Sugru.


I do not know of any production ebike with a killassist switch. That's my name for it. I just made it up.

I like the looks of a professionally made bike. Professionally designed bikes tend to look right because components are relatively well integrated. I lost interest in making a DIY bike a long time ago because it is hard to make them look as well as they function, imo. Most DIY bikes will not have a torque sensor, either. Or cadence sensor and torque sensor and a killassist switch.

Yeah I guess no matter what bike you buy you have to change things to make it your own but I'm working on making the DIY bike look like a purpose built. The hardest part is that dang battery but it can be done with a little help from my friends. Luna is working on some stealth looking batteries, just a waiting game like always.

 

[Asher]

Yeah I guess no matter what bike you buy you have to change things to make it your own but I'm working on making the DIY bike look like a purpose built. The hardest part is that dang battery but it can be done with a little help from my friends. Luna is working on some stealth looking batteries, just a waiting game like always.

Conventional wisdom of the recreational bike industry, of “buy a $1000 bike, throw out the crappy parts and spend $500 customizing it!” That’s not a recipe for mainstream adoption — consider how few people ever do this with a car, beyond buying a $10 cell phone mount. I also think it dates to a dealer-manufacturer relationship where the dealer wants to create business for itself through selling and swapping parts. Canyon has a direct to consumer model, and its bikes are stocked with good parts across the board, more or less.

The pricier ebikes like Stromer and Trek are moving beyond this old bike model, but creating that experience doesn't actually add that much cost. This feature specifically would cost little to nothing per unit I imagine.

 

[JeffMD]

Asher, in reality though if you buy a $1000 ebike.. most of the money is in the electrics and battery so the bike is made of cheap parts.

Also your car analogy could not be more wrong. I am sure most people would love to upgrade or replace certain things on their car, even bought new! (No car is perfect off the line). But car parts are obscenely expensive (I got a mid trim level mazda with regular day lights. In order to get mazdas LED day lights I need to buy all the 18 or so pieces of the new headlight which makes it about $1400 per side.) and unless you have the garage, tools, and experience then you will be paying someone $120 an hour to do the labor for you.

Not only am I capable of doing any of the changes to my bike but a number of bike shops will do the work at around $20 an hour.

 

[Asher]

Asher, in reality though if you buy a $1000 ebike.. most of the money is in the electrics and battery so the bike is made of cheap parts.

Also your car analogy could not be more wrong. I am sure most people would love to upgrade or replace certain things on their car, even bought new! (No car is perfect off the line). But car parts are obscenely expensive (I got a mid trim level mazda with regular day lights. In order to get mazdas LED day lights I need to buy all the 18 or so pieces of the new headlight which makes it about $1400 per side.) and unless you have the garage, tools, and experience then you will be paying someone $120 an hour to do the labor for you.

Not only am I capable of doing any of the changes to my bike but a number of bike shops will do the work at around $20 an hour.

The $1000 was in reference to non-ebikes. Yeah, Juiced would have to raise its prices to get better quality drivetrain, but only like $100-200 for say, Deore.

As for cars, lol nope, you're assuming everyone else is like you. Out of the bestselling cars aka sedans, how many do you think have been modded? I challenge you to find any evidence it's more than 5%. Probably less than 1%. Car buyers don't mod, they buy an upgraded model at most. I also challenge you to find me a bike shop that quotes $20 an hour in labor costs in America.

$60 is a typical rate, eg https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/index.php?category=4048

Car mechanics charge more mostly because cars take up a lot more real estate, and partly because the skills are rarer, harder to come by. Being a bike mechanic isn't easy per se, but the barriers to entry are much lower.

 

[Tronic Jon]

This is how I mounted a tiny toggle switch that closes/shorts either pair of brake inhibitor wires.
Connecting the two wires together kills the motor assist.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LWUQIZ0/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
(is what I used, mounted with a dab of superglue after being molded into an encasement of Sugru.


I do not know of any production ebike with a killassist switch. That's my name for it. I just made it up.

I like the looks of a professionally made bike. Professionally designed bikes tend to look right because components are relatively well integrated. I lost interest in making a DIY bike a long time ago because it is hard to make them look as well as they function, imo. Most DIY bikes will not have a torque sensor, either. Or cadence sensor and torque sensor and a killassist switch.

Thanks I'll give this a try! There is still hope for a software solution though.


Response:

"At the moment the lowest speed limit setting on the software is about 15mph.
Juiced Bikes Support Team"

I replied with:

"Is it technically possible for your engineers to tune the firmware/software to allow lower than 15mph speed limit settings to be obeyed?
(Or is 15mph a physical technical limitation?)"

Response:

"It is not a physical limitation, but mainly down to software."

I replied with:

"Can you kindly add Speed Limit Support for less than 15 MPH in software? The menu lets us choose 0-15 now, but it's not obeyed as you know. Sitting Speed Limit to 0 to disable assistance would be a good option for special occasions/needs. Or just add an OFF option below ECO"

 

[Tronic Jon]

This is how I mounted a tiny toggle switch that closes/shorts either pair of brake inhibitor wires

I forgot to ask, can you confirm that the Throttle still works when the DIY toggle is engaged? You said you're activating the break inhibitor

I noticed Throttle doesn't work if I slightly ride the breaks. The throttle is disabled until breaks are no longer being activated.

 

[Tronic Jon]

Response:

"At the moment the lowest speed limit setting on the software is about 15mph.
Juiced Bikes Support Team"

I replied with:

"Is it technically possible for your engineers to tune the firmware/software to allow lower than 15mph speed limit settings to be obeyed?
(Or is 15mph a physical technical limitation?)"

Response:

"It is not a physical limitation, but mainly down to software."

I replied with:

"Can you kindly add Speed Limit Support for less than 15 MPH in software? The menu lets us choose 0-15 now, but it's not obeyed as you know. Sitting Speed Limit to 0 to disable assistance would be a good option for special occasions/needs. Or just add an OFF option below ECO"

Response:

"We will have this information passed to the engineer team."

 

[Asher]

Thanks for suggesting . A zero below off would be best, so that you can turn it on and off without stopping.

 

[JeffMD]

As for cars, lol nope, you're assuming everyone else is like you. Out of the bestselling cars aka sedans, how many do you think have been modded? I challenge you to find any evidence it's more than 5%. Probably less than 1%. Car buyers don't mod, they buy an upgraded model at most. I also challenge you to find me a bike shop that quotes $20 an hour in labor costs in America.

...I..thought I just wrote up several reasons why you DON'T see consumers modding/upgrading cars.. yes.. yes that is indeed what I wrote. It is very difficult to update cars because of parts cost and labor since the equipment cost and skills are a lot higher. That doesn't nessecarily mean the demand isn't there though. Ask anyone if there is something they would like to be able to improve on their car and you would likely get a list going. But the cost of doing even small upgrades is just so high that no one does it.

Just because it doesn't get done doesn't mean it doesn't WANT to be done. On other hand with bikes the cost in both parts, labor, and skill are much lower and thus not unusual for people to buy a bike, expensive or not, and then add/replace stuff before they even get on it.

 

[Asher]

Ah I misread you. I get your point but really, what modification would most people make to standard sedans if it we're cheaper to do so?

 

[JeffMD]

Well just think about the things the last car you bought didn't have something you wanted. For me, I would have preferred a better smart console interface, upgraded audio deck, adding rear seating AC ducts. Likewise I couldn't afford the upper trim for the faster engine now and because of that it is impossible to upgrade to it later.

So yea bikes are a little more open ended. And I am glad that ebikes are being smart about it and not trying to use proprietary parts. Often when something new comes to the market of electronics and it features addons, almost no effort is made to make the addons a standard that can be interchangeable with different/newer models in the future.

 

[Reid]

I forgot to ask, can you confirm that the Throttle still works when the DIY toggle is engaged? You said you're activating the break inhibitor

I noticed Throttle doesn't work if I slightly ride the breaks. The throttle is disabled until breaks are no longer being activated.

Throttle does not work when the killassist switch closes across the brake inhibitor wire pair (as you already suspected).

The future solution you have already suggested: that Juiced make a "0" setting in the power level menu. That would be quick and easy to use.

Till then, I am enjoying my killassist switch. It lets me go back and forth from manual to assist very quickly.

You could glue it just about anywhere, even on or near your throttle.

PS: it was the first mod I made to my bike. I despised the always-on assist and that I could not go on a night ride using just the headlight. God, that all sucked so bad and I have forgotten how unsatisfactory it was. I am constantly riding the bike going OFF and ON with the assist. The switch is used very frequently; as well, the on/off throttle button. I do not have a throttle anymore.

 

[Tronic Jon]

Throttle does not work when the killassist switch closes across the brake inhibitor wire pair (as you already suspected).

The future solution you have already suggested: that Juiced make a "0" setting in the power level menu. That would be quick and easy to use.

Till then, I am enjoying my killassist switch. It lets me go back and forth from manual to assist very quickly.

You could glue it just about anywhere, even on or near your throttle.

PS: it was the first mod I made to my bike. I despised the always-on assist and that I could not go on a night ride using just the headlight. God, that all sucked so bad and I have forgotten how unsatisfactory it was. I am constantly riding the bike going OFF and ON with the assist. The switch is used very frequently; as well, the on/off throttle button. I do not have a throttle anymore.

I'll for sure be trying this mod as well, switch and moldable glue on order. Can you post more photos on exactly what and where you tapped into? (and how you mounted the switch exactly with what and wrapped for weather proofing etc)
I think I'll be happy enough with this mode but prefer a software fix for sure. Anyone know if firmware/software is updatable in the field but us end users? (assuming they did add this feature request)

 

[Tronic Jon]

@Reid thanks again for the DIY suggestion. Can you suggest the best place to tap into the break inhibitor wire? (maybe post a photo) I have some electronics background, but I'm thinking of outsourcing this to a local shop just so it gets done faster. (need to formulate the full plan first though)