How To Judge Quality

[AHicks]

ebikemom, I believe the info the "tech" shared with you was not accurate. No matter the design, if any parts in the area of the drop out need to be changed, there's going to be welding involved. Makes no difference on the parts count originally involved in the assembly. The exception might be if/when discussing a bike with a rear suspension.

As far as the brand's experience in that area, I think that's evolved across the board, with all manf's. Not unique to Pedigro at all. As the more powerful hub motors are developed, the science of keeping them secure within the dropouts must advance as well. It's one of the reasons you may notice the use of torque arms more often. With anything over about 250 watts, they are an absolute necessity! I beleive the days of securing those with a hose clamp are numbered. As power increases, they need to transfer more torque to the bikes frame than those will allow.

Point being, when the motor manf's come out with something that's bigger, better, faster, THEY will share what they've found necessary/what it takes to keep them secured to a bike's drop outs. If you want to use our new motor, this is the way it needs to be installed! My opinion, FWIW. -Al

 

[AZOldTech]

I asked about the dropout design out of sincere interest and I thought it was interesting to hear a story of a brand's experience developing their ebike product, and thus I shared it here. Bike frame design is beyond the realm of my expertise, so I had no expectations about what the reply would be, or why an ebike frame might benefit from a design that is different from the frame for a conventional bicycle.

I learn new things every day! Keeps life interesting!

I don't personally know the person you spoke with but like new car dealerships, bike dealerships also have an ulterior motive to pump their own brand. This is why I'll miss my local Performance Bike store (which BTW, is finally gone and closed its doors this past weekend). At that specific store they were no less than 3 educated engineers (2MEs and 1 IE) that would have no problem to tell you that a Ridley (a bike brand that they used to carry but were no longer selling for the past year the newer models - probably because they were no paying) was better than their own brand Fuji or Kestrel that they had the bikes in stock. And also give you specific engineering reasons why that was the case. I will surely miss those guys...

 

[Alex M]

This is exactly why some members think buying an ebike directly from Alibaba or AliExpress is a better option.
Let's cut the middle man and buy it straight from the factory.

I would be inclined to buy directly too, since it all comes from the same source and you don't support domestic economy when buying from a middleman.

Though, I don't quite see how that post (that led you to Aliexpress) suggests exactly this. It was suggested buying from "established bicycle company at a local bike shop" as opposed to bikes like Volt, to improve the odds that you bike won't end up in landfill for lack of parts. Wait a minute - Volt is actually a local "shop", and exist for several years. I would be more inclined to consider a dealer of some expensive brand with many points of sale to be a middleman that is charging more for the same stuff ...

Buying from Aliexpress, you risk to spend several hundred bucks and some hassle on upgrades and parts replacements within weeks after the purchase, at best, and to take the whole thing to landfill, at worst. May or may not break-even, compared to US-purchased kit bike. Seller may or may not be helpful there, toss a coin.
When you buy Volt or RAD, - better situation, because you get more warranty and a lot of support.
Buying from really well established company that sell through many shops, say, Pedego, - better chances yet. You pay more, too. Don't be surprised to find that some parts are no different from cheaper bikes. One possible complication - they use Dapu motor, not Bafang, and you won't find Dapu anywhere, if it breaks. They will sell you the entire wheel with motor, or will charge for standalone motor two times more than the wheel with Bafang would cost. You need to consult with your wallet before taking this route.

So... For somebody with an average DIY skills and on a budget, look for a "kit bike" with motor and battery available from 3rd parties. Volt, RAD, Biktrix, you name it... It won't matter whether the company that assembled it is still in business. If your DIY skills are poor and/or you prefer paying others, - then look at the higher end of scale. Just my 2 cents.

 

[MikeDee]

I would be inclined to buy directly too, since it all comes from the same source and you don't support domestic economy when buying from a middleman.

Though, I don't quite see how that post (that led you to Aliexpress) suggests exactly this. It was suggested buying from "established bicycle company at a local bike shop" as opposed to bikes like Volt, to improve the odds that you bike won't end up in landfill for lack of parts. Wait a minute - Volt is actually a local "shop", and exist for several years. I would be more inclined to consider a dealer of some expensive brand with many points of sale to be a middleman that is charging more for the same stuff ...

Buying from Aliexpress, you risk to spend several hundred bucks and some hassle on upgrades and parts replacements within weeks after the purchase, at best, and to take the whole thing to landfill, at worst. May or may not break-even, compared to US-purchased kit bike. Seller may or may not be helpful there, toss a coin.
When you buy Volt or RAD, - better situation, because you get more warranty and a lot of support.
Buying from really well established company that sell through many shops, say, Pedego, - better chances yet. You pay more, too. Don't be surprised to find that some parts are no different from cheaper bikes. One possible complication - they use Dapu motor, not Bafang, and you won't find Dapu anywhere, if it breaks. They will sell you the entire wheel with motor, or will charge for standalone motor two times more than the wheel with Bafang would cost. You need to consult with your wallet before taking this route.

So... For somebody with an average DIY skills and on a budget, look for a "kit bike" with motor and battery available from 3rd parties. Volt, RAD, Biktrix, you name it... It won't matter whether the company that assembled it is still in business. If your DIY skills are poor and/or you prefer paying others, - then look at the higher end of scale. Just my 2 cents.

Volt bike is a direct to consumer sales company. No local dealers or shops. If it breaks, you deal with the company direct and probably have to fix it yourself, or maybe, if you're lucky, you can get a local bike shop to fix it (good luck with that). Where did you get the idea that they sell through local shops? Is there more than one Volt company?

 

[ebikemom]

Pedego, - better chances yet. You pay more, too. Don't be surprised to find that some parts are no different from cheaper bikes. One possible complication - they use Dapu motor, not Bafang, and you won't find Dapu anywhere, if it breaks. They will sell you the entire wheel with motor, or will charge for standalone motor two times more than the wheel with Bafang would cost.

On the Pedego motor--my husband's ebike (Pedego City Commuter) had a motor defect, and started making a very loud noise at about 2,000 miles. Usually what seems to be "motor noise" is something else--fender rattle, chain guard rattle... but nope, this was a motor problem. Our local Pedego dealer came to our house, picked up my H's bike, dropped off a loaner, and took the bike off to their shop. When they got a new motor in, they re-laced it into his wheel. No charge (warranty repair). When we cycled over to pick up the fixed bike and drop off the loaner, I recall the dealer saying something like... "There's $800 worth of repairs for you, covered by your warranty". He said it was a half-day of labor, if I remember correctly.

 

[Alex M]

Yep, that's what I heard: +$700 for a wheel with motor. Laced wheel with Bafang would cost from $300. Even an expensive place (and a good one), like Grin, wouldn't charge more than $600, this is including a complete kit with controller and display.

 

[PDoz]

So we have to add in some conscience / good will factor to our decision making process.

How do we feel about the throw away economy - just buying complete replacement wheels / components every time there is an issue. Factor in the enviromental impact, world wide economic impacts of shifting $ and jobs vs having local service personel with skills to diagnose / fix issues , and operhaps even that warm fuzzy feeling when a local helps you out ( great to hear of a shop pointing out the $ value of warranty work)

I was reading another forim recently and an entire giant ebike was replaced for a recurring electrical glitch. I cringe when hearing stories like this - whilst it's great customer support, surely the manufacturers should be upskilling the technitians to a level where these problems can be diagnosed and repaired rather than just returning the bike and presumably dumping it?

 

[Alex M]

Is there more than one Volt company?

Volt and Voltbike are not to be confused.
Volt is a UK company, expensive, plenty of dealers (of course).

Voltbike is Canadian. Warehouses and showrooms in BC and WA, you can pick it up there or take a test-ride. Or shipped to your door. They sell it through Bestbuy - I guess, this makes it "local", no ? I agree, one of gray areas here. Shows that the idea of being local is same murky as the idea of a middleman, these days. No, Voltbike don't keep dealers. They work similar to RAD - ship you a replacement part, you install it. Modular design. If a user can't replace a battery with exactly the same one, or a display, or a wheel with laced motor, he probably needs not only a dealer, but a mechanic for any minor adjustments through the life of his bike, too. I realize that many people do. No offense.

 

[Alex M]

How do we feel about the throw away economy - just buying complete replacement wheels / components every time there is an issue. Factor in the enviromental impact, ...

I think most people prefer not to think about it.

It boils down to personal preference. From where I'm standing, a bike where you have a choice - lacing a new motor (especially when it doesn't cost an arm and a leg), or replacing the whole wheel - is better than a bike where you don't have a choice. Though this is a minor consideration, more like a warm fuzzy feeling that you "can". Not everybody is going to spend a day on lacing and truing if he never did this before. Ebikes a modular by nature, the more available and affordable are the modules, - the better for consumers, IMO. Manufacturers might have a different opinion, I can see where parts availability and inter-changeability could go against their interests.

 

[flugelboneman]

WOW!!! I have learned much from all of your insights. The bike I have been looking at is a Volt Bike Enduro, sold out of Vancouver B.C. They are around $2000.00 Cdn. I am senior rider (79) and ride about 1500 kms per year, mostly street, some trail. As mentioned at the outset, I have ridden Treks for years and feel strongly about the quality of Trek, Giant, Specialized etc. over big box bikes. There is no question about the superior quality of name bikes. I keep my bikes for longer periods and I suspect this will be the last one, as I am running out of time LOL. Looking for comfortable, trouble free ebiking like I have had with Trek. Trek Ebikes, like all the other big name bikes are twice the cost of a Spark or a Voltbike. Advice from bike shop owners? If you buy a cheaper ebike you are buying another big box bike with lesser qualilty frames and components.

 

[AHicks]

I think you need to clarify the type drive you are considering, as it may drive the answer to your question considerably. Which do you think you might prefer, hub, or mid drive?

 

[flugelboneman]

I am impressed with the mid drives I have tried, but the cheaper bikes mostly come with hub drive. I am not wedded to either

 

[AHicks]

Pretty much my point. The mid drives are typically pretty expensive. If a less expensive bike is still under consideration, it's very likely going to be a hub drive.

You'll need to make that call fairly early on.

If you're wondering if there are hub bikes that are made from parts with reasonable quality, I would answer a very definite yes. If you want to use a middle of the road Trek as a standard, I don't think you'll have a lot of trouble matching that quality with a hub bike.

 

[flugelboneman]

Thx once again. I have found this forum to be immensely helpful. I will take ur insight on some hub drives being worthy of consideration. I did take a giant mid drive out tho and was impressed. More complex for sure than hub.

 

[Credible Hulk]

Where can you get a Volt or Spark bike repaired when it breaks? Do you think these companies will be in business in the long term so you can get parts? I would recommend buying an ebike from an established bicycle company at a local bike shop. Even then, who knows if repair parts will be available several years or more later. At least your odds are a lot better and maybe your bike won't end up in the landfill when your bike breaks and it can't be fixed.

Spark bikes are a standard alloy frame with common name brand parts added. Nothing is proprietary to Sparkbike. To get it fixed or parts replaced you can go to any local bike or ebike shop. The battery is LG. Gears are Shimano, brakes are Tektron, hub motor is Bafang, etc. That was one of the reasons I chose one of these bikes, the fact that they can be repaired locally and the parts are easy to replace. Down the road if I wanted to, it wouldn't be hard to buy a new hub motor kit if/when the motor I have dies.

I just got one which was shipped from Vancouver to Toronto. When it arrived (two days late, no tracking during its week journey by ground) the box looked like it had been run over by a truck. The derailleur was sticking out of a huge hole in the side of the box. Luckily it had a derailleur guard to reduce the damage, but the guard itself was also bent. It will have to be unbent and adjusted at a bike shop because it won't shift below 3rd gear. The rear rack is twisted in two directions with flakes of paint coming off. The right handlebar end is torn off. None of this is the vendor's fault. The ebike is rideable and the motor works. I've taken it out for a couple of test rides.

I emailed Sparkbike with pics of the damage and within 2 hours they responded telling me to take it to a bike shop and they will pay for all costs. They said if it turns out the frame or wheels are bent (they look and ride ok) they'll either replace those or just send me a new bike. They will go after the courier for compensation. When I first got the bike I had a question about assembling it and they called me right back and walked me through it over the phone.

So even though these Sparkbikes are cheap, their customer service so far has been second to none. I already spoke with a nearby bike shop that sells the higher end ebikes and they had no problem with me bringing it in to be fixed. If I do run into any problems I'll post an update.

 

[flugelboneman]

Thank u hulk. This is the kind of info that really helps. I believe spark and volt bike have many similarities. Am also considering conversi9n kit for my trek but they aint cheap and most come without a battery.

 

[PDoz]

WOW!!! I have learned much from all of your insights. The bike I have been looking at is a Volt Bike Enduro, sold out of Vancouver B.C. They are around $2000.00 Cdn. I am senior rider (79) and ride about 1500 kms per year, mostly street, some trail. As mentioned at the outset, I have ridden Treks for years and feel strongly about the quality of Trek, Giant, Specialized etc. over big box bikes. There is no question about the superior quality of name bikes. I keep my bikes for longer periods and I suspect this will be the last one, as I am running out of time LOL. Looking for comfortable, trouble free ebiking like I have had with Trek. Trek Ebikes, like all the other big name bikes are twice the cost of a Spark or a Voltbike. Advice from bike shop owners? If you buy a cheaper ebike you are buying another big box bike with lesser qualilty frames and components.

How much is a 2018 trek / big brand going to cost you compared to the voltbike ?

I know that in Australia, typical new prices for leftover 2018 bikes start around 2/3 of retail ( with even more discount for a low km demo) , so presumably that makes your choice a bit more interesting - spend 50% more than the voltbike, get something that you know you can trust and will probably serve you well for the rest of your riding time? Are you concerned by the extra 10% weight of the voltbike compared with a trek - would something lighter possibly give you another year of use in the future ? How are you going to feel if that $1 k saving gas you dropping the bike and getting injured ?

Nb there were big advances in motor / battery tech for 2018 , and most of the big name manufacturers had reasonable geometry by then , but 2017 it varied across brands - ie a 2017 specialized would be fine, but I'd steer clear of a 2017 giant because they used the older motor.

 

[flugelboneman]

Not Aussie, BC Canada. Trek Ebike about a grand more. Seems to be lots of pros and cons for choice of going to lower cost Spark/Volt Bike vs Trek/Specialized etc. I may have to actually make a decision here. I have ridden Giant and Trek, but not Volt Bike or Spark. Will actually ride one or tother and decide. Thx muchly.

 

[AHicks]

Something else may be worth discussing on this "last bike" concept. I think it's a fairly widely accepted fact that a "step through" (girls bike) design can extend your riding career by quite a bit, as can a trike......

 

[flugelboneman]

Right, no mobility progs so far. Also miscalulated on annual distance ridden. Try to ride 100 kms per week, which would total about 5000, rather than previously mentioned, so I need a bike that is not going to break down thru use. My Treks have been A1 when it comes to maintenance free biking notwithstanding the regular oiling etc. That is what I hope to get from an ebike.