How to Best Charge Battery for Longest Life

BallzOne said:
I asked Juiced about this and according them their packs will not balance on a partial charge so you make a good point for people. Occasional full charging is good to balance charge the pack.
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How "occasionally" with regular daily use do you think? (I am waiting on my RCS 52V.)
 
In the ham radio world, which I also inhabit, the recommendation is: every month for a battery that gets frequent usage; every 3 months, for batteries that are used infrequently. Frequently = 4-5 times/wk; Infrequently = 4-5 times per month. These are rough estimates but you get the idea.
 
I've been looking at the Luna Blue charger and would like to find out if anybody has figured out how to hook up the XT60 charger to a 4pin XLR for the HyperFat battery. I've looked at the GrinTech adapters. I've also thought about soldering it myself if needed but wanted to check to see if anybody has found a better solution.
 
Luna actually sells a pre-made XLR adapter for their charger. If you get one, let us know how it works out for you. I have heard enough mixed reviews about them I am hesitant to spend the $100 on their charger.
 
If you knew approximately how long it would take to charge to 80%, could you plug the charger into an electrical outlet timer, set the timer and walk away?
 
Yes, I have been doing that. Yesterday I was at 47.6 volts and I set the timer for 1 hr 30 mins which gave me 51 volts.
 
Asher said:
If you knew approximately how long it would take to charge to 80%, could you plug the charger into an electrical outlet timer, set the timer and walk away?
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As Reid pointed out, with the stock 2 Amp hour battery charger, you can count on -- wait for it -- 2 amps per hour. So if you know how much you've used, or how much you want to recharge, then you know how much time to set your timer for. With the LCD readout on my CCS, I can know exactly what the state of charge is, if I ever want to try this timed-charging lark. ;)
 
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Bruce Arnold said:
As Reid pointed out, with the stock 2 Amp hour battery, you can count on -- wait for it -- 2 amps per hour. So if you know how much you've used, or how much you want to recharge, then you know how much time to set your timer for. With the LCD readout on my CCS, I can know exactly what the state of charge is, if I ever want to try this timed-charging lark. ;)
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Lol now I sound dumb... I don't have the bike yet and the Juiced S page was a bit sparse and I don't think it says the amperage of the charger. Thanks for clearing that up, I see Belkin has a $10 device that looks good.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B003P2UMS0/ref=mp_s_a_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1519348183
 
I've also been looking at the Luna Blue charger and they carry a 3-pin XLR adapter but not a 4-pin one. I emailed them and they recommended cutting the end off of the stock charger and soldering it on. If anyone has found an adapter that works with the Luna Blue charger, post a link here please.
 
Wouldn't it be wonderful if there was an eBike vendor that actually provided a charger that would allow you to select an 80 or 100% charge for your bike and would make sure it was balanced? I get that this would cost a bit of money, but compared to the cost of new batteries it would be a pittance. I was thinking of buying the Grin, but since I would still have to charge to 100% every once in a while to balance decided against it. Given how long this extends battery life by I wish Court would bring this up in reviews instead of bringing up fast chargers as a plus (even though they shorten battery life) and other fairly minor points such as kickstand locations. Replacing a $900 Bosch battery which could have had a much longer life span because of this would be a real downer. I understand that vendors have an incentive to save money on things that most buyers aren't aware of, but I wish users who had some influence over them would push for this.
 
I continue to think that this concern with the 80% charging is over-thinking the issue. Let's say you don't let your battery get below 20% charge, which is pretty easy to do either with instrumentation or paying attention to the bike's performance and getting a feel for when it has lost significant power. Most bikes today can easily get 25 miles going from 100% to 20%; that may be too conservative but it's an easy number to work with. (My Crosscurrent S gets over 50 miles under those conditions.) If you get 500 charge cycles -- again, this is probably a conservative estimate -- then you've ridden 12,500 miles. If you ride 25 miles every day, then you can expect your battery to last 500 days. Put away a little money -- $5 here, $10 bucks there -- and by the time a year and a half has gone by, you've got enough saved (painlessly) to buy a new battery.

And, with some experience now, fooling around with how to get the most out of my CCS, I've come to agree with Tora -- these bikes work best and are the most fun when they are at full power. If you always lop off the top 20% of the charge, you will never fully appreciate the awesome machines that these bikes can be.

I just got my CCS, with the 17.4 Ah battery, in January. I'm already starting to save for the 52 volt 21 Ah battery. I fully expect to get the most out of the battery I have, and still have a viable battery by the time I'm ready to plunk down the big bucks for the big battery.

But I get it; if some folks want to extend their battery's life as far as conceivably possible, then by all means they should go right ahead regardless of what others are doing. A little bit of math and putting the charger on a timer is a cheap solution, if you don't want to pay the price for a Grin Satiator or something similar.
 
Solom01 said:
I was thinking of buying the Grin, but since I would still have to charge to 100% every once in a while to balance decided against it.
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I don’t follow your logic. You get 400-500 cycles out of the battery if you charge to 100%. So if you charge to 100% once a month to balance the cells, and keep it <80% the rest of the time, that’s 12/500 cycles per year. Your battery would still last many, many years. In all likelihood the battery would outlast the bike.

The average consumer is clueless about lithium ion battery charging so they aren’t going to see the value in a more sophisticated charger. That’s why most e-bike manufacturers only include a basic charger with the bike.

Keep in mind that some people use their bike every day (or charge twice per day while commuting). So if they charged to 100% every time they would hit that 500 cycle mark in a year or two and have to shell out $750-1000 for a new battery. The average user is probably charging once a week or less so for them a 100% makes a lot more sense.
 
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Dunbar said:
I don’t follow your logic. You get 400-500 cycles out of the battery if you charge to 100%. So if you charge to 100% once a month to balance the cells, and keep it <80% the rest of the time, that’s 12/500 cycles per year. Your battery would still last many, many years. In all likelihood the battery would outlast the bike.

The average consumer is clueless about lithium ion battery charging so they aren’t going to see the value in a more sophisticated charger. That’s why most e-bike manufacturers only include a basic charger with the bike.

Keep in mind that some people use their bike every day (or charge twice per day while commuting). So if they charged to 100% every time they would hit that 500 cycle mark in a year or two and have to shell out $750-1000 for a new battery. The average user is probably charging once a week or less so for them a 100% makes a lot more sense.
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Partial charges are still degrading the battery over time, just not as fast, no?

E.g. if there's 500 full cycles, but approximately twice as many if you stay in the 20-80% range. So going from 80% to 30% would be half a charge, 0.5/1000 cycles.

At say 75 miles per charge, you're looking at 40-80k miles before the battery nears it's end. That's about 5-10 years at 20 miles per day. At which point the bike itself has probably depreciated 80% in value without the battery ($200-300 for the CCS). And batteries will have gotten 25-115% higher range by then (5-8% annually).
 
See table 4 at the link below. In short charging to 70-80% will extend the battery life by 4-7X (even more if you charge to 3.92V/cell.) I completely agree that you could take this to the extreme and never charge to more than 60% and end up with a bike that never feels very responsive. But it’s hard to argue with the advice to charge to 80% if you’re charging several times per week. I think the 52V battery charged to 80% would basically feel just as responsive as a 48V battery charged to 100%.

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
 
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Bruce Arnold said:
I continue to think that this concern with the 80% charging is over-thinking the issue. Let's say you don't let your battery get below 20% charge, which is pretty easy to do either with instrumentation or paying attention to the bike's performance and getting a feel for when it has lost significant power. Most bikes today can easily get 25 miles going from 100% to 20%; that may be too conservative but it's an easy number to work with. (My Crosscurrent S gets over 50 miles under those conditions.) If you get 500 charge cycles -- again, this is probably a conservative estimate -- then you've ridden 12,500 miles. If you ride 25 miles every day, then you can expect your battery to last 500 days. Put away a little money -- $5 here, $10 bucks there -- and by the time a year and a half has gone by, you've got enough saved (painlessly) to buy a new battery.

And, with some experience now, fooling around with how to get the most out of my CCS, I've come to agree with Tora -- these bikes work best and are the most fun when they are at full power. If you always lop off the top 20% of the charge, you will never fully appreciate the awesome machines that these bikes can be.

I just got my CCS, with the 17.4 Ah battery, in January. I'm already starting to save for the 52 volt 21 Ah battery. I fully expect to get the most out of the battery I have, and still have a viable battery by the time I'm ready to plunk down the big bucks for the big battery.

But I get it; if some folks want to extend their battery's life as far as conceivably possible, then by all means they should go right ahead regardless of what others are doing. A little bit of math and putting the charger on a timer is a cheap solution, if you don't want to pay the price for a Grin Satiator or something similar.
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Batteries are getting cheaper and the technology is getting better. I bet by the time you are ready to pull the trigger on the 52v there will be a better option. That's why I charge to 100% myself.
 
80% and good management can double life from your method. For me a no brainer. Luna chargers were the most returned item. I use an expensive charger but it does everything i want from tracking battery to charging at a range of amperages and any battery fro 24v to 60v. The $300 investment has realisticall6 saved me 3 to 5 times the cost. Anyone with more than a single battery could benefit from a Cycle Satiator. Those Luna chargerrs are around $100. For me to charge 36,48, and 52v batteries would require $300 in chargers with limited, short! warranties.
 
Bruce Arnold said:
I



But I get it; if some folks want to extend their battery's life as far as conceivably possible, then by all means they should go right ahead regardless of what others are doing. A little bit of math and putting the charger on a timer is a cheap solution, if you don't want to pay the price for a Grin Satiator or something similar.
Click to expand...
It certainly is possible and i have several riders I ve helped set theirs up, but many of us have two or more voltages, and BMS capable of higher charges rates. The Satiator is more than a single voltage charger.
 
This is probably a really obvious question, but I'm going to ask it anyways... It's okay to charge your battery with the stock charger until the light on the charger goes green correct? I'm not asking in terms of battery life, longevity, etc. I'm just asking because I'm a bit paranoid about these batteries and pull the charge off after a couple of hours or so, while the light is still red...
 
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