High end ebikes vs High end e scooters

[Ebiker01]

Scootering is becoming immensely popular in N, America, , esp. in US , in the big cities with mostly young people and the millennials. I hope it won't get popluar with people over 50+ as safe escootering esp. on the faster models requires very high alert, focus , very sharp skills.


High end ebike :


Prices : 3000$-10.000$ , usually 3k-7k, the Stromer ST5 @10k is an anomaly that needs a price adjustment.

- 600 to 1000watts battery or 2 of 600watts as in 48v /12.6ah for 605wh

- 500watts to 750watts motor

- speeds up to 30mph, maybe 40moh with Bafang Ultra motor

- weight :55-70lb


High end escooter:


Prices :2500$ - 7000$ , although some good deals starting at 1600$ .

- usually 60volts/21ah , 60v/25ah or at the top end : 72v/35ah ,72v/45ah !!

- 2 motors , 2 x 1000watts, powerful ones even have 2x1600watts, top end 10.000watts, up to 50.000watts !!!!!!!

- speeds usually up to 40mph, the top ones 60-75moh, even 100mph...US is big need to get to places FAaaaaaaST

-weight : 45lb-70lb , rarely 90-145lb for ultra commuters and very fast arrivals to Walmart/Home depot/Gym/Park/Work.


I use the escooters a lot for my short errands and short trips . Ebikes for long trips , adventures.

The escoters have much better specs (power and battery cappacity , speeds ) then ebikes .

I'm talking here about the top escooters not the flimsy , cheap and vastly inferior Segways, Bird , lime scooters..

Top brands: Dualtron Thunder /X\Spider, Inokim OX/OXO, WEPED SS, Currie Panther, Zero 10x/11x, Mantis, Wolf Warror, Emove Cruiser, Unagi 1


Clearly , they (the bike or ebike companies) have been cheating us with putting on ebikes this cheap, slow accelerating motors and minimum battery capacity.
Min. speeds, limited motors for EU(no scootering in Uk unless with license , reg.)


When will we have an ebike with this specs:

- 72volts/30ah battery

- 2x 1500 wats motors ( front and rear hub)

- speeds up to 45mph

Priced around 4-6k depending on the build quality.
-

 

[Nova Haibike]

Clearly , they (the bike or ebike companies) have been cheating us with putting on ebikes this cheap, slow accelerating motors and minimum battery capacity.

If it is so easy to make what you're asking for, why do you suppose no one is doing it? Do you really think it is because manufacturers are wanting to "cheat" you out of a low priced, high powered bike?

 

[rich c]

How do you cheat someone when the consumer is happy with the product and all the companies sell out? I have zero interest in standing up for 10 miles and not getting any exercise. Even if they were free.

 

[Sifu Ben]

I thought you meant this by hi end e-scooter

 

[fooferdoggie]

fast speeds on a standup scooter is not a great thing. braking will never be great. plus they suck for long rides standing in one place for 10 miles really sucks. I was thinking of buying this guy right before I found e bikes. https://cycleboard.com/products/rover# but a bike is far easier to ride safly and you can actually go farther because your not standing up.

 

[antboy]

When will we have an ebike with this specs:

- 72volts/30ah battery

- 2x 1500 wats motors ( front and rear hub)

- speeds up to 45mph

Priced around 4-6k depending on the build quality.
-

A bike with similar electronics is just going to cost more, due to frame and wheel cost alone. Also, regulations around e-bikes restrict the market compared to e-scooters, as many cities are playing catch-up, and in many, the e-scooter rentals have soured some.

- speeds usually up to 40mph, the top ones 60-75moh, even 100mph...US is big need to get to places FAaaaaaaST

If you need 75 MPH to travel distance, and have upwards of $7000 to spend, buy a car or motorcycle. This contradicts your earlier point of

Scootering is becoming immensely popular in N, America, , esp. in US , in the big cities with mostly young people and the millennials.

Within the e-bike market where most urban speed limits are are 30 MPH, and MUPs are even less. E-bikes going much over the 28 MPH limit of 28 MPH are somewhat niche in comparison.

I'd say "pick a lane and stick to it", but most e-scooter riders have a problem with that too, from my experience.

 

[AguassissiM]

Have a look here to see if this one can qualify as a high end scooter.
Long read however job very well done by Alex...

 

[Ebiker01]

I thought you meant this by hi end e-scooter
View attachment 64811

That's an ICE vehicle , specifically a 1cylinder motor, you are new to e scooters. They are a lot of fun and never get stuck in traffic.





E scooters:

 

[Ebiker01]

regulations around e-bikes r

This regulations may or may not come to e scooters as well in the near future.

 

[Sifu Ben]

It's a BMW C Evolution scooter. Propulsion is based on i3 EV.

 

[Ebiker01]

How do you cheat someone when the consumer is happy with the product and all the companies sell out? I have zero interest in standing up for 10 miles and not getting any exercise. Even if they were free.

I'm not 100% happy with the small 600wh battery b:c i know there could be better options. A lot of people who are knowledgable with ebikes are not happy either.

The ones who are happy , for them is their first ebike, they have yet to learn a lot about this field.
You can sell them anything and the companies do sell them...juiced, radpower , aventon.

I would have to change(upgrade) all the parts on those ebikes if i get one.

750watts limits, 28mph limit ?? If a rider is 300lb with a 100lb rack full of groceries , will that 750watts ebike go up a 7% hill ??

See Wattwagon, the guy gets it and makes the sale. 2 batteries, 40mph possible speeds.

The 750watt limitation makes for an unsafe and dangerous product -see mybex. with the 300lb rider !
This is all b:c it can be made very cheaply(same standards, easy to replicate).

 

[Ebiker01]

It's a BMW C Evolution scooter. Propulsion is based on i3 EV.

Sifu , I didn't knew . My apology ! Good to know about that one.
So, how do we differentiate between the two categories ? My type of e scooters and the Bmw type ?

 

[Ebiker01]

pick a lane and stick to it", bu

That's the car mentality and clearly if you look at the car jams and traffic is not going very well.
The e scoter can take any lane and get there fast and on time. You can stay in your lane and wait for the traffic to clear up shortly.

In more civilized countries they already have e scooter/bicycle/ ebike highways.

 

[Ebiker01]

f you need 75 MPH to travel distance, and have upwards of $7000 to spend, buy a car or motorcycle. This contradicts your earlier point of
Within the e-bike market where most urban speed

What contradiction do you see there ??

The point is that cars/motos are for long distances or long adventures. Short trips , 1-15miles an e scooter is pretty good. For longer trips they make them with suspension, big wheels.

Very few e scooters have that 75mph TOP speed and is just that. Nobody will ever use it, or maybe for testing.
Just like a Nice car that has a 160mph top speed. Is just the motor specs. Try to calm down a bit.

 

[Sifu Ben]

I would like an e-scooter as a last mile mode of transportation when I park my electric car or electric scooter at the charging station. Right now I use a pedal bike to go from charging station to my office. Workplace charging is very nice but it's about 3/4 of a mile away from my office.

 

[Ebiker01]

fast speeds on a standup scooter is not a great thing. braking will never be great. plus they suck for long rides standing in one place for 10 miles really sucks. I was thinking of buying this guy right before I found e bikes. https://cycleboard.com/products/rover# but a bike is far easier to ride safly and you can actually go farther because your not standing up.

I have to disagree on all points. Try a ride on a well built e scooter . A dualtron X, a Weped, a Zero 10X . Those weight 70lb and up , 135lb for the X, suspension, brakes top notch, very stable, like a Cadillac.

An ebike is for diff. needs, but we do have to pedal them. If you have the skills, and the tight scooter, they both can be riden safely and far.

If i'm tired after a gym workout or if i don't feel like pedaling i can take the escooter for a 5-15mile or longer ride to relax and admire the scenary. No need to pedal , i can just relax with other friends scotering to a new destination or just cruising.

But a good product makes a huge difference. The cheaper ones are flimsy and shaky, narrow tires and very dangerous !! Cheap brakes, batteries , crap really.

Top ones have 21700cells, 180mm disc brakes, 11inch tires, lights, suspension front and back, powerful motors.

 

[Ebiker01]

I would like an e-scooter as a last mile mode of transportation when I park my electric car or electric scooter at the charging station. Right now I use a pedal bike to go from charging station to my office. Workplace charging is very nice but it's about 3/4 of a mile away from my office.

The Unagi 1 with dual motors is perfect for your needs.

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[Ebiker01]

If it is so easy to make what you're asking for, why do you suppose no one is doing it? Do you really think it is because manufacturers are wanting to "cheat" you out of a low priced, high powered bike?

Some have been doing it or just started : Wattwagon, Fuel, Optibike, M1 .

A top escooter for long commute and fast speeds has suspension front and back , frame, handlebar, powerful 180mm brakes, LIGHTS, bug beefy 11inch tires , 5 inch /5.5 wide , dual motors , usually 1000watts each, over 100 quality cells as in 60v 25ah. Around 2.3K and UP.

How is an ebike any different ?? That 3-4lb frame material and the shifting components justify the price difference ? Those parts are a few dollars each in Taiwan/China.

That derailleur cable is 0.5cents on QBP(the bike dealers distributor) and 5$ or 10$ at the bike shop !

And this ebikes DONT use 2 motors of 1kw or 2kw each, no 60v/25ah. The cells are expensive, good motors also pricey(some are using magnesium motors, very light) but the scooters makers are keeping prices reasonable for a top quality product.

How do they do it ? And, they also don't have a lot of market as ebikes. But as i had mentioned, it is simply booming everywhere the scootering commute or sport in the big cities in US. Same in Asia, Europe and other places.

Is a super easy activity to enjoy, is light and nimble , with a good one, it is also quite safe. Someone who can't carry their 60 lb ebike up 3flights of stairs , can probably carry a 30-35lb scooter.

 

[antboy]

What contradiction do you see there ??

The point is that cars/motos are for long distances or long adventures.

Very few e scooters have that 75mph TOP speed and is just that. Nobody will ever use it, or maybe for testing.
Just like a Nice car that has a 160mph top speed. Is just the motor specs. Try to calm down a bit.

I don't see a contradiction.

You initially were making this point...
- speeds usually up to 40mph, the top ones 60-75moh, even 100mph...US is big need to get to places FAaaaaaaST

And now you seem to want to take that very point off the table.

All that being said, I agree that regardless of whether we're talking e-bike/e-scooter/Tesla, people rarely travel at the max speed for a variety of reasons.

So why do we need 100mph e-bikes/scooters? I'll make a suggestion... for fun.

Since that "fun" runs counter to just about every legislative jurisdictions performance restrictions for on-road use, including licensing, such beasts will always ride a fine line, including legal disclaimers that while said e-scooter/e-bike CAN go faster, "check your local laws".

Short trips , 1-15miles an e scooter is pretty good. For longer trips they make them with suspension, big wheels.

I think e-scooters are more suited for last mile solutions. That's just me, but I also think that's most people. "Monster" e-scooters are more a novelty, while 15 MPH e-scooters with a 20 mile range, are the sweet spot for most people who could really use an e-scooter.

 

[antboy]

That's the car mentality and clearly if you look at the car jams and traffic is not going very well.
The e scoter can take any lane and get there fast and on time. You can stay in your lane and wait for the traffic to clear up shortly.

In more civilized countries they already have e scooter/bicycle/ ebike highways.

The "pick a lane" comment wasn't meant to be literal, so much as the behaviour of e-scooter riders in my experience. I haven't owned a car in about 27 years, because I've no need for one.

Also If they're "civilized" countries, why don't e-scooter riders behave in civilized manner? And e-unicycle riders for that manner.

To dial back to the beginning, you can get an e-bike with a throttle for well under $6K, and unlock the speed.