Hi gang!

[Chazmo]

That’s interesting @PCeBiker ! I’m not sure if I’d like an automatic shifter, but I suppose I’d have to try it to really know what it feels like. I like manual transmissions in my cars and have never even considered an alternative in a bike. Specifically with my fat-tire ebike, my goal is to have pedal assist when I need it and (rarely) to have throttle-only to cross intersections, etc.. The Juiced RipCurrent S that got me into this meets those goals well.

So, it looks like the H720 motor/IGH is the two-speed model. I’m trying to imagine how two gears could make up for my 9 speed cassette. Anyway, the 5 speed (G500A) only seems available for mid-drive applications, currently. Unless I’m reading it wrong, the G500A isn’t a motor. ???

Thanks for the pointers to these very cool advancements.

 

[teskow]

This is the greatest since sliced bread. What took so long?
So many advantages over the single speed hub motor and even the mid drive with a derailer.

 

[PedalUma]

I was referring to SRAM eTap. This groupset is worth almost $3,000 US before tax. Back to basics, the main advantage of a mid-drive is that the motor pulls chain through the shiftable gears. On the good ones pedal speed is the same as chainring speed. The junky ones can be ghost pedaled.

SRAM RED AXS E1 XPLR 13-Speed Groupset

The SRAM RED AXS E1 XPLR 13-Speed Groupset was designed to be the ultimate gravel drivetrain: resilient, precise, light and fast.

www.biketiresdirect.com

 

[PCeBiker]

This is the greatest since sliced bread. What took so long?
So many advantages over the single speed hub motor and even the mid drive with a derailer.

It's basically a hub drive motor with a built in automatic 5-speed derailleur that's sealed up inside where it won't get full of crap and doesn't get caught on twigs, rocks, stumps, sage brush, or your right leg.

There's also a 2 and 3 speed version.

Only one sprocket on the motor though, but you get 5 cadence speeds, so your legs can keep up.

It's kinda like a Rohloff but it's got the motor stuffed inside too.

 

[PCeBiker]

,.. The junky ones can be ghost pedaled.

I'm still gonna be ghost pedaling.
That's how I roll.

Only I don't cheat by faking it.
I don't pedal at all.

As long as I keep myself under 32 kph, I'm be fine with law.

 

[PCeBiker]

This groupset is worth almost $3,000 US before tax.

It looks like I can get a 5-speed IGH BAFANG rear hub motor for about $500 CAD, but I can't seem to find anyone to sell me one?

Is this motor even real ?
Do they really exist ?
Should I buy a or pink instead ?

 

[Chazmo]

It's basically a hub drive motor with a built in automatic 5-speed derailleur that's sealed up inside where it won't get full of crap and doesn't get caught on twigs, rocks, stumps, sage brush, or your right leg.

@PCeBiker , I think the Bafang H720 rear hub motor with IGH has only an automatic 2 speeds. Not that that’s bad. But, I don’t see any rear hub motor with 5 speeds. The documentation that you pointed at earlier (for Bafang’s G500A) showed a 5 speed gear hub, but it’s not a motor. That appears to be only usable with a mid-drive motor through the chain/belt.

Again, I could be reading this wrong, but maybe Bafang is working on something like that. It’s not part of their HR series of motors (yet).

 

[PCeBiker]

The documentation that you pointed at earlier (for Bafang’s G500A) showed a 5 speed gear hub, but it’s not a motor.

Apparently there's both a mid drive hub, and a hub drive 5-speed automatic,..

I figure the mid-drive version without a motor is more expensive because tinier gears have a tighter tolerance and cost more to manufacture?

The hub motor has more room to fit everything inside and the parts are cheaper even when adding a hub motor to the mix.

Unless I'm reading it all wrong too ??


This one is definitely a geared hub 2-speed motor,..

So I think I want "GVT Technology" ?

2-speed would be good enough for me but a 5-speed would be better unless it costs more than @PedalUma 's SRAM eTap technology at almost $3,000 US before tax.

There's apparently an older 3-speed IGH Bafang model too that would probably be cheaper and just perfect for me.

 

[PedalUma]

Bafang IGHs do not have input for electricity. There is no wire. They are meant for mid-drives. Something got lost in translation. The position is rear but it is not a motor.

 

[Chazmo]

Bafang IGHs do not have input for electricity. There is no wire. They are meant for mid-drives. Something got lost in translation. The position is rear but it is not a motor.

@PedalUma , I think that the H720 is a rear motor with (automatic) two speed IGH, a.k.a. a two-speed “GVT” (gear variable transmission). Although you certainly might be right that the translation is cocked up here. But, it sure looks like a motor to me, and clearly there is no cassette attachment like there is on mine.

@PCeBiker I think your first picture and last picture in that post are of the same (H720) motor/IGH.

But, enough said from me. I’m very new to this.

 

[PCeBiker]

There is at least a Bafang 2-speed geared hub motor,..

零部件

Bafang description

bafang-e.com

It will fit my fat ebike.
I don't pedal, so I might as well have some motor gearing going on.

I won't ride any different than I am now, but I will would do it more efficiently.

They say that throttles are optional, and that's Complete BS !!

They should be mandatory.

 

[PCeBiker]

But, enough said from me. I’m very new to this.

Yeah me too.
I just discovered this motor yesterday.

I remember rambling on in some thread about "why don't they make a 2 or 3 speed geared hub motor?"
Just wrap a hub motor around a Rohlof or something?

Well, turns out that it's been done, and I Want One !!!

 

[PCeBiker]

@PCeBiker I think your first picture and last picture in that post are of the same (H720) motor/IGH.

Something got lost in translation.

I got all mixed up looking at the two pictures from AliExpress.

The bigger version looks like a fat motor.
I guess it's just a fat gearbox?


And I don't think that there's a 3-speed IGH hub motor either?
(but there is a 3-speed hub.)

 

[PedalUma]

That is correct. Bafang mid-motors were going through chains, snapping them at a high rate, leaving people stranded, so they came up with and IGH that could run a belt or a much stronger SS chain. Oh, OLD is not old, it is the width of a dropout.

 

[Chazmo]

I don't pedal, so I might as well have some motor gearing going on.

My only comment to you is that if you don’t pedal I don’t see how the gears in the GVH-equipped hub motor/IGH will be of any advantage to your riding experience, PCeBiker. Isn’t the point of IGH to replace a gear cassette / derailleur with a more robust connection from the pedal crank to the rear wheel?

 

[PedalUma]

My only comment to you is that if you don’t pedal I don’t see how the gears in the GVH-equipped hub motor/IGH will be of any advantage to your riding experience, PCeBiker. Isn’t the point of IGH to replace a gear cassette / derailleur with a more robust connection from the pedal crank to the rear wheel?

I think what he wants is the experience of a BBS02 to a traditional cassette such as a Box 3 Nine 11-50 groupset when using a throttle. And with a pie pan shaped chainring to bring in the chainline so he can still hit the lower gears. Otherwise these motors push it out to far. He would love it but will quickly eat the smaller cogs unless he goes with the IGH at the same time.

 

[PCeBiker]

,.. Oh, OLD is not old, it is the width of a dropout.

Yeah, that's the parameter I was looking for.
My dropouts on both my e-bikes are the standard ~177mm Boost dropout spacing with the same 36 12 gauge spoke holes as the H720.

I want to use a 27.5" wider rim with the motor, which my Voltbike is using (the Et.Cycle has a MXUS fat motor relabled as Das-Kit using a standard 26" fat rim), but I don't like the spoke angles at the nipples, and all the spokes are bending on my 27.5" rim,..

Correct spoke tension, 2019 Rad Rover rear wheel?

On the bike, I will put a zip tie on the frame and trim it so it just brushes the rim, Yeah, that's what I do. You can always attach zip ties somewhere to make pointers out of them. I like to use the center of the tread. I figure that's what counts the most. Pythagoras said that meant...

forums.electricbikereview.com

So,.. I'd like to find a better rim option with angled spoke holes or offset a bit or something to deal with the huge reach going from the center of the rim over to the outside of the motor.

I don't think there's much available in 27.5" rims for a fat e-bike, so I might have to get the same type of double walled rim as my Voltbike and just bend the spokes?

I've got four 27.5" X 2.8" Schwalbe Super Moto-X tires that I really like and want to keep.


Please let me know, if anyone knows, if I've got my 's lined up properly, because I really want to buy an H720 motor.

My voltbike has a G06 series motor.

 

[Chazmo]

Wow, I really lost you guys here. But, hey, @PCeBiker keep me/us in the loop if you move forward with the H720 hub motor/IGH. 27.5” wheels on a fat bike??? Cool and wow!

FYI, I started a thread in the Bafang forum to try to get more real-world feedback/experience with these cool products: https://forums.electricbikereview.com/threads/bafang-gvt-internal-gearing.57346/

 

[PCeBiker]

My only comment to you is that if you don’t pedal I don’t see how the gears in the GVH-equipped hub motor/IGH will be of any advantage to your riding experience, PCeBiker.

I'm not looking for a different riding experience.
I intend to stay the same.

All motors are most efficient the closer they are to their maximum RPM.
A mid-drive uses the gearing of the e-bike to maintain an optimal RPM of the motor.

A normal hub drive motor is only one gear and the entire drive-line is solely for the rider.
A hub motor is completely gutless at slow speeds but still uses full power at slow speeds, turning it into heat and not only wasting all your electrons, but cooking your motor, wires, connectors and battery while doing so.

I have no need for speed or power because I don't want to risk a $5,000 fine, but the idea of more torque at low speed "for free" interests me enough to want to buy this motor.

Isn’t the point of IGH to replace a gear cassette / derailleur with a more robust connection from the pedal crank to the rear wheel?

Yeah, if your in it for speed and power, and because ALL the power of the motor power (1200 Watts in my case) is going through the driveline, as well as the riders input.

Hub motors only have a measly ~200-300 Watts maximum of people power to deal with through the chain and sprockets, and my drive-line sees no power at all.

 

[PCeBiker]

I think what he wants is the experience of a BBS02 to a traditional cassette such as a Box 3 Nine 11-50 groupset when using a throttle.

Maybe?
But I don't know what that is?

And with a pie pan shaped chainring to bring in the chainline so he can still hit the lower gears. Otherwise these motors push it out to far.

The H720 is a 2-speed IGH hub motor that only accepts a single sprocket (or a pully for a belt.)

It's got the same G06 series fat bike spacing where that single sprocket won't be any further out than my high gear on my current cassette,..

And no need for any plates, dishes, or any other fine China.
I've currently got 7speed chains, so I'll just get a Big cog that's the proper thickness for my chain and chain wheel.

The freewheel is brand new. I just got finished installing it and greasing my motor.
I tried to seal up the motor cable going into the motor with silicone and grease further inside.

Bafang could improve their design by having the motor cable sloping downward to help feed ALL the water directly into the motor where it belongs.
As it is currently designed, only the water that splashes on the cable finds its way into the motor.


The whole wheel may never get used now because now I want a new motor that only accepts a single sprocket.

It does come apart.
Maybe I can score the big sprocket from it for my new motor?

He would love it but will quickly eat the smaller cogs unless he goes with the IGH at the same time.

The only thing that eats my driveline is rust.
I almost Never pedal and ride no-hands more than 90% of the time.

My new e-bike has over 4000 km on it and my crank has seriously rotated for less than 50 km of that.

If it weren't against the law, I'd remove the entire driveline and install foot pegs.

(actually, that's not true. I Really like the idea of self recovery that the crank and pedals provide. It's better than a spare battery.)

@m@Robertson owes me a favor.
He talked me into buying the fancy freewheel that I no longer need.

Maybe he can help me spend more money and source me a H720, and let me know if I can plug it into my e-bike ?