Help me choose a high quality bike with range, comfort, speed, newer motor, and versatility

[wallrich525]

I'm exhausted from the research and the limited bike options with high quality, servicing in the SF bay area, and not some glaring missing component or questionable reviews. I prefer a low(er) step as a younger senior who doesn't want to have challenges down the road in getting on/off ebikes. I want to be able to take 60 mile rides to and from the coast while tackling the necessary hills and curves without range anxiety. I've been focussing on Turbo Vado/Como (no place for a second battery), Trek Allant+ 8s (seems like a number of issues already and they aren't even in most stores yet), Gazelle Ultimate T10 (no speed model yet) and avoiding spending the bigger bucks on R&M models. Though I prefer a derailleur I hate getting stuck midway on a hill (like due to an unexpected stop before downshifting) which requires the Enviolo or Rohloff. The one though that checks all the boxes is the R&M Supercharger2 GX Vario HS which will be over $8,000 after tax, I won't go broke if I buy it but have never even spent $1,000 on a bike before living in Chicago and riding the flats or gentle hills. Any other suggestions in the $3-5k range or just accept you get what you pay for and pay the R&M premium?

 

[Deleted member 18083]

The one that checks all the boxes is the R&M Supercharger2 GX Vario HS.

You've made a very good choice. Enjoy!
… David

 

[Stefan Mikes]

It is not a low-step frame though?

 

[Alaskan]

The Riese & MUller Homage has the low step and is full suspension, front and rear and dual batteries. It will do everything you are asking for reliably, smoothly and comfortably.

If you can afford it, the pain of paying over $8,000 for a bike fades into memory quickly.

The pure pleasure of riding a Riese & Muller, with its unique design, solid build quality, top shelf components and superior comfort is something that will put a smile on your face every time you saddle up.

My Homage with custom walnut fenders picking up fresh veggies at our farmer's market.

 

[Rob NJ]

@wallrich525....I'm also researching my first (baby boomer) e-bike purchase, and it's turned into a bit of analysis paralysis between the Specialized Turbo Vado 5.0 2020 and the Trek Allant+ 9.9S, plus Brose versus Bosch motor specs and long term reliability. I don't want to spend more than $6,500 total, to include tax (and shipping - if an added expense) and will be using the e-bike primarily for on-road recreation, vice daily commuting or off-road purposes.

Besides Specialized and Trek, I've looked at other e-bike manufacturers, including R&M, Bulls, Raleigh, and others. But the bike shops that sell and/or support those brands are 75 or more miles away from where I live in Florida. For me, based on after purchase warranty and other support, it's boiled down to Specialized or Trek. There is a Pedego dealer within reasonable distance. But those e-bikes don't appeal to me for various reasons. Forget test riding various e-bike brands where I reside. Local bike shops don't stock e-bikes and serve mainly as hubs for (Specialized and Trek) after sale, e-bike receiving and assembly, plus what I'm guessing is non-expert/limited experience warranty support and repair.

I wish there was a Consumer Reports-like publication, I could reference that addressed e-bike long term, predicted reliability, average repair and maintenance costs, buyer satisfaction, etc., to make my purchasing decision easier. But I've yet to come across any such reference. Instead, I find myself relying on written reviews and YouTube videos, where it's sometimes difficult to separate promotional hype from the sincere; plus, I've read countless, forum published, anecdotal testimony of current and past owners of various e-bike makes and components--where my head spinning frequently hits mach 3+.....because for every good experience with an e-bike make, motor, and otherwise, there's always a negative counterpart.

It really is a total crapshoot no matter which e-bike brand you go with or how much money you spend. Dishing out megabucks on any kind of product doesn't necessarily guarantee impeccable quality and workmanship or how satisfied you'll eventually be with the item after all is said and done. So my buying indecision continues.....good luck with yours.

FWIW, I struggled with the same thing. I totally agree with Alaskan that the pain of paying for a good bike fades where poor quality is with you forever.

I had a Trek SuperCommuter 8+ (my wife as well) and really loved it. It was stolen, and I replaced it with an Allant 9.9. Since I have a SuperCommuter sitting next to the Allant, I am probably being too hard on it right now, especially as the weather in New Jersey right now is too cold and snowy to do much riding. The things that are being complained about on the Allant 9.9 could really turn out to be just how the bike is designed versus the SuperCommuter. For instance, one person was complaining about the buzzing. It is the rear hub, which has tighter springs and just makes more noise (which some people like). I am going to ride mine for a while and see, but there are things that a local bike show can do to make it quieter. The shifter is stiffer than the Allant, but it is a new top of the line shifter that is used in MTB’s and many people like a tighter shifter. The spring can be changed to make it softer, so I might do that as well. These are really not defects in the bike. Just how Shimano has designed the parts.

Local support in my opinion is really important. While I can fix bikes, I prefer to ride them.. There are some differences in an ebike, but it is still mostly a bike. When I complained about the difficult shifting, my LBS immediately took the cables out, and we check how much resistance was coming from the cable (actually none), so we knew there were no kinks, and the resistance had to be in the shifter or derailleur. They were extremely responsive and did not charge me a thing.

And the locking on the battery might just be the way the new Bosch powertube is designed. Many of us were used to the previous version which just snaps into place without the key. Looks like the powertube needs to be actually locked into place, just cannot be snapped back in. Again, perhaps an issue that the LBS did not properly inform many of us on that, but the gentlemen that had a problem had both the battery and scuffed cover replaced immediately with no fooling around.

We are on our way to Florida for a couple of weeks with the ebikes. I want to ride the Allant a couple of hundred miles for a shake down cruise. Then I will think about any changes or if there are real issues. So far, really a nice bike with super design and parts. Plus the LBS and companies stand behind their products (From what I can tell). You likely will get the with Specialized and others. I do not think it is a crapshoot with the bigger companies. The crapshoot is more likely with the mail order companies, which can give you good value, but tough to test ride, if there are issues they will likely give you good support, but that is about sending you parts and you fixing it. Or finding a local bike shop to do it. There is a recent thread on all the ebike manufactures that have gone bankrupt.

I just am at a stage in my life where I am willing to pay for support and buy from big suppliers that will not go out of business - my budget allows that. Others are in a different place and I respect their choices.

 

[Ebiker01]

My Homage with custom

Q- What brand is the handlebar basket ?

It looks just big enough for a lock, bike charger , sunglasses case, and a few other essentials.
I got one and although it is really nice and waterproof , is not big enough.

Thank you

 

[Alaskan]

https://ortliebusa.com/product/ultimate6-pro/ if you have a wider center mounted display like a Bosch Intuvia, you'll need to buy the ebike mount.

 

[Johnny]

The Riese & MUller Homage has the low step and is full suspension, front and rear and dual batteries. It will do everything you are asking for reliably, smoothly and comfortably.

If you can afford it, the pain of paying over $8,000 for a bike fades into memory quickly.

The pure pleasure of riding a Riese & Muller, with its unique design, solid build quality, top shelf components and superior comfort is something that will put a smile on your face every time you saddle up.

My Homage with custom walnut fenders picking up fresh veggies at our farmer's market.

View attachment 43515

Nice Fenders matches the seat and the grips.
An irrelevant question, what is the crank arm length?

 

[dblhelix]

I'm exhausted from the research and the limited bike options with high quality, servicing in the SF bay area, and not some glaring missing component or questionable reviews. I prefer a low(er) step as a younger senior who doesn't want to have challenges down the road in getting on/off ebikes. I want to be able to take 60 mile rides to and from the coast while tackling the necessary hills and curves without range anxiety. I've been focussing on Turbo Vado/Como (no place for a second battery), Trek Allant+ 8s (seems like a number of issues already and they aren't even in most stores yet), Gazelle Ultimate T10 (no speed model yet) and avoiding spending the bigger bucks on R&M models. Though I prefer a derailleur I hate getting stuck midway on a hill (like due to an unexpected stop before downshifting) which requires the Enviolo or Rohloff. The one though that checks all the boxes is the R&M Supercharger2 GX Vario HS which will be over $8,000 after tax, I won't go broke if I buy it but have never even spent $1,000 on a bike before living in Chicago and riding the flats or gentle hills. Any other suggestions in the $3-5k range or just accept you get what you pay for and pay the R&M premium?

Just two things. (1) If you are considering a R&M Vario model, try it out on the types of hills you will be riding in the Bay Area. The bike is not light and some find the Vario’s gear range insufficient for serious climbing. (2) for service I highly recommend The New Wheel, if you haven’t already stopped by. My experience there was very positive.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

My Homage with custom walnut fenders picking up fresh veggies at our farmer's market.

Have you put Crankbrothers Stamp 7 pedals on you ebike, Alaskan?
I think now I might have bought one of R&M bikes instead of the two ebikes I own; R&M do not even have a dealership in Poland though.

 

[wallrich525]

Thanks everyone. The Homage is not a dual battery (though you can add one on the outside i assume) and has the older motor. I do like the step through though (similar to the Nevo but with full suspension). I know when I test-drove a Vario I was sacrificing something. A bit like AT vs a stick or a German car vs a Japanese car. If i never feared the stuck on the middle of a hill, sticking with a derailleur would be a no-brainer. I also know that the Supercharger is not a true step through but neither are Vado/Como's or Allants. What do others think about the importance of the Gen 4 motors (I also like the Brose S...so smooth and quiet)?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Hi Wallrich525!

Don't be so afraid to be stuck uphill. What grade are we talking? How long the uphill roads are in your neighbourhood? The Bosch Gen 4 motor has tons of torque so you just select the Turbo mode and up you go. Then, the matter of derailleur: Before you get onto the incline, wisely shift down. I can tell you you would be positively surprised.

To give you some information: The rear-hub motor in one of my e-bikes is 250 W, and I could ride on 7% (relatively short) incline without effort and at 15 mph. I could ride up even harder incline in the "granny gear" and of course at crawl speed. If I ride Turbo Vado uphill, I just shift down in middle gear and push Turbo mode on. I ride onto the hill without reducing speed.

I feel whatever R&M e-bike you choose you would be delighted and I am excited with your choice. Only tell us how steep inclines you expect and how long these are.

 

[wallrich525]

@dblhelix are you suggesting going all the way and getting the Rohloff to ensure making the big hills? If I'm riding to the coast, I will be tackling serious hills. 1400-1800'.

 

[fooferdoggie]

I can shift on my Bosch bike while going uphill no problem. 14% grade you have to start working a fair amount even with turbo and the lowest gear. my dapu 500 watt mid drive 14 was no biggie 16 was about the same as 14 on the Bosch. 10 % I can do maybe 12 to 14 up it on turbo.

 

[dblhelix]

@dblhelix are you suggesting going all the way and getting the Rohloff to ensure making the big hills? If I'm riding to the coast, I will be tackling serious hills. 1400-1800'.

It’s not so much about the height but the grade. For reference, I rode a loaded Rohloff but I used to own a Vario, so I have experience with both. I climbed to 9000’ in the Sierras, but there were few steep spots along the way, so I probably would have managed with the Vario. PCH was fine from Goleta to SanFran, but once I hit SanFran proper, I found myself on some very steep hills — possibly the steepest of my entire trip. If hills like that were part of my regular biking life, I would go with either a derailleur or Rohloff.

 

[smorgasbord]

I also live in the SF Bay Area, and there are some great, challenging hills to climb. I second the suggestion to visit The New Wheel in SF. They give free test rides, and will accompany you if want. They took me to what they said was something like the 3rd steepest grade hill in SF, and I climbed it pretty well on the Delite with Rohloff.

But, note that going with the Rohloff won't insulate you from the problem of being part way up a steep hill in the wrong gear. Matter of fact, the Rohloff is less happy shifting under load than external derailleurs. And, the R&Ms with Rohloffs are setup to cut power from the motor when you shift. That can be pretty disconcerting if you're climbing at low speed and need to downshift. I personally am happier with my SRAM 12-speed 10-50 tooth GX derailleur setup.

You can shift the Enviolo under reasonable load, but in my experience that unit's low efficiency is noticeable and it may not have the gear range you want to go fast on level ground and be able to climb steep hills. My wife has the electronic shifting version, which is a pretty sweet interface, though.

Note that the bikes you're looking at are also made for the European market, and as such don't have a throttle, are speed and power limited. It can be a contentious debate whether you want or need a throttle, so I highly recommend test rides before purchasing. The electronic Rohloff available on some R&Ms can be setup to automatically downshift when you come to a stop, which makes subsequent startups easier without a throttle.

Finally, it is a bummer that the Bosch Gen4 motor isn't yet available on the Homage. I also am a young senior, and so I understand that waiting a year to get the right bike loses a significant percentage of future riding. One thought is to get a dropper post on a mid/high step bike to make it easier to swing your leg over the saddle. That doesn't help if you've got a trunk bag on the rear rack, though.

 

[wallrich525]

I also live in the SF Bay Area, and there are some great, challenging hills to climb. I second the suggestion to visit The New Wheel in SF. They give free test rides, and will accompany you if want. They took me to what they said was something like the 3rd steepest grade hill in SF, and I climbed it pretty well on the Delite with Rohloff.

But, note that going with the Rohloff won't insulate you from the problem of being part way up a steep hill in the wrong gear. Matter of fact, the Rohloff is less happy shifting under load than external derailleurs. And, the R&Ms with Rohloffs are setup to cut power from the motor when you shift. That can be pretty disconcerting if you're climbing at low speed and need to downshift. I personally am happier with my SRAM 12-speed 10-50 tooth GX derailleur setup.

You can shift the Enviolo under reasonable load, but in my experience that unit's low efficiency is noticeable and it may not have the gear range you want to go fast on level ground and be able to climb steep hills. My wife has the electronic shifting version, which is a pretty sweet interface, though.

Note that the bikes you're looking at are also made for the European market, and as such don't have a throttle, are speed and power limited. It can be a contentious debate whether you want or need a throttle, so I highly recommend test rides before purchasing. The electronic Rohloff available on some R&Ms can be setup to automatically downshift when you come to a stop, which makes subsequent startups easier without a throttle.

Finally, it is a bummer that the Bosch Gen4 motor isn't yet available on the Homage. I also am a young senior, and so I understand that waiting a year to get the right bike loses a significant percentage of future riding. One thought is to get a dropper post on a mid/high step bike to make it easier to swing your leg over the saddle. That doesn't help if you've got a trunk bag on the rear rack, though.

I also live in the SF Bay Area, and there are some great, challenging hills to climb. I second the suggestion to visit The New Wheel in SF. They give free test rides, and will accompany you if want. They took me to what they said was something like the 3rd steepest grade hill in SF, and I climbed it pretty well on the Delite with Rohloff.

But, note that going with the Rohloff won't insulate you from the problem of being part way up a steep hill in the wrong gear. Matter of fact, the Rohloff is less happy shifting under load than external derailleurs. And, the R&Ms with Rohloffs are setup to cut power from the motor when you shift. That can be pretty disconcerting if you're climbing at low speed and need to downshift. I personally am happier with my SRAM 12-speed 10-50 tooth GX derailleur setup.

You can shift the Enviolo under reasonable load, but in my experience that unit's low efficiency is noticeable and it may not have the gear range you want to go fast on level ground and be able to climb steep hills. My wife has the electronic shifting version, which is a pretty sweet interface, though.

Note that the bikes you're looking at are also made for the European market, and as such don't have a throttle, are speed and power limited. It can be a contentious debate whether you want or need a throttle, so I highly recommend test rides before purchasing. The electronic Rohloff available on some R&Ms can be setup to automatically downshift when you come to a stop, which makes subsequent startups easier without a throttle.

Finally, it is a bummer that the Bosch Gen4 motor isn't yet available on the Homage. I also am a young senior, and so I understand that waiting a year to get the right bike loses a significant percentage of future riding. One thought is to get a dropper post on a mid/high step bike to make it easier to swing your leg over the saddle. That doesn't help if you've got a trunk bag on the rear rack, though.

Thanks @smorgasbord. I have been shopping at the new wheel Marin but did some test drives on the San Francisco hills which I cleared pretty well. I was actually more freaked by the weight of the bikes going down the SF hills. Glad I don’t live in the City. I really do like the double integrated battery on the Supers, and loved the shifting on the XT.
the one new twist I learned today is Pt Reyes trails don’t allow Class 3 bikes (how would they know?) only Class 1. It’s not like I’m gonna go 28mph on a wooded trail to the beach!
Can you explain the “dropper post”?

 

[FlatSix911]

Thanks @smorgasbord. I have been shopping at the new wheel Marin but did some test drives on the San Francisco hills which I cleared pretty well. I was actually more freaked by the weight of the bikes going down the SF hills. Glad I don’t live in the City. I really do like the double integrated battery on the Supers, and loved the shifting on the XT.
the one new twist I learned today is Pt Reyes trails don’t allow Class 3 bikes (how would they know?) only Class 1. It’s not like I’m gonna go 28mph on a wooded trail to the beach!
Can you explain the “dropper post”?

The dropper post was first developed for mountain bikes to "drop the seat post" and lower your center of gravity when descending steep grades.
Hope this helps.

Amazon.com : Satori Sorata Pro Dropper Bike Seat Post Internal Cable Routing 100mm 30.9x365mm : Sports & Outdoors

Amazon.com : Satori Sorata Pro Dropper Bike Seat Post Internal Cable Routing 100mm 30.9x365mm : Sports & Outdoors

smile.amazon.com

 

[Deleted member 18083]

The dropper post was first developed for mountain bikes to "drop the seat post" and lower your center of gravity when descending steep grades.

For those of us who shy away from heart-stopping mountain descents, dropper posts allow us to lower the height of our saddles so that we can get on and off our ebikes more easily and also place our feet flat on the ground at traffic intersections.
… David

 

[Stefan Mikes]

and also place our feet flat on the ground at traffic intersections.

Didn't know. I drop my ass off the saddle at the intersections