Help finding a mid-drive, torque ebike with a throttle and natural pedal assist?

[Gionnirocket]

I think it's time to call the DHL driver.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Yes, it does.
They know "cycling" is all about "pedalling". People who cannot pedal shall name their steeds the proper name: "mopeds".

Black-and-white thinking in an all-gray world, my friend.

Most of the throttle-equipped bikes I've seen also have PAS. Granted, some people ride them with little or no pedaling. And to many of them, the ebike is just non-car transportation. Some ride responsibly, some don't.

Are the responsible ones inferior? Of course not. I applaud them for getting outside and not burning gas to get where they're going.

Others like me always pedal, and pedal hard, augmenting that with a welcome second of throttle here and there as needed. Does that make me inferior to your throttleless friends. Hardly.

Then there are the many, many ebikers I see who fall in between. Who are you and I to say they're inferior? If they ride responsibly, what's the harm?

 

[Gionnirocket]

Black-and-white thinking in an all-gray world, my friend.

Most of the throttle-equipped bikes I've seen also have PAS. Granted, some people ride them with little or no pedaling. And to many of them, the ebike is just non-car transportation. Some ride responsibly, some don't.

Are the responsible ones inferior? Of course not. I applaud them for getting outside and not burning gas to get where they're going.

Others like me always pedal, and pedal hard, augmenting that with a welcome second of throttle here and there as needed. Does that make me inferior to your throttleless friends. Hardly.

Then there are the many, many ebikers I see who fall in between. Who are you and I to say they're inferior? If they ride responsibly, what's the harm?

You do realize that you're urinating into a strong headwind.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Most of the throttle-equipped bikes I've seen also have PAS

Classy mid-drives have five to six sensors working in a harmony, making the e-bike react to the rider's pedalling in the utmost natural way (nobody even thinks of "torque sensor" or "PAS", which concepts are as funny as "multimeter" or "Ah" in relation to e-bikes). What do you do Jeremy when you want to ride at a walking speed? Let me guess: you probably throttle the motor down. While a good mid-drive lets you ride very slowly if you just pedal very lightly and slowly. Now, spin or pedal hard and such an e-bike will jump forward like a rocket. Which is made easier by relatively low weight of such an e-bike and reasonable tyres.

How many people complain here they cannot start from the traffic lights without the throttle?

How comes no premium e-bike manufacturer installs a throttle on their expensive mid-drive motor e-bikes?

Jeremy, sorry to say but you seem to be very American in your thinking. How comes I, a man with three medical conditions including leg atherosclerosis could ride distances up to 125 km with 5,000 ft elevation gain and 19% inclines without the throttle? Perhaps the throttle is not necessary at all when the person knows what the "cycling" means?

The thread title is an oxymoron.

 

[Taylor57]

I'm not ashamed to say I use my throttle on every ride I have ever taken on my ebikes. (except for my 2 Gravelsters). I have zero guilt in having used the throttles and can say for a fact, they have made the whole ebike experience much more pleasant and safe. I still don't understand the mindset of some that are so anti throttle. There are so many other more significant things to oppose...

 

[fooferdoggie]

I'm not ashamed to say I use my throttle on every ride I have ever taken on my ebikes. (except for my 2 Gravelsters). I have zero guilt in having used the throttles and can say for a fact, they have made the whole ebike experience much more pleasant and safe. I still don't understand the mindset of some that are so anti throttle. There are so many other more significant things to oppose...

because for the most part you have to sacrifice quality electronics for a throttle. Plus with experience and a good setup it's not really needed. yes a few tiems on our tandem i ahd trouble getting started when some reason Could not shift down but putting the bike in walk mode fixes it. but that seldom happens.

 

[Bicyclista]

Lastly this is off topic but talking about throttles, I'm a huge fan of Jeff Jones bikes and love his recent mad speed experiments with e bikes and building 50mph, basically electric motorbikes!

Back to trying to help @tricycle with his request, Jeff Jones makes ebikes with Bafang mid-drive motors, throttle included. Spendy, but @tricycle did not mention a budget. Jones has a wait list, so it may be a while before you can get your hands on one. Apparently, he prefers to talk on the phone as opposed to email. You can schedule a phone call on his website.

Personally, I use Jones H-Bars on both my ebikes. I dream of having a custom Jones titanium space-frame ebike with his wild titanium truss fork...!

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

What do you do Jeremy when you want to ride at a walking speed? Let me guess: you probably throttle the motor down. While a good mid-drive lets you ride very slowly if you just pedal very lightly and slowly. Now, spin or pedal hard and such an e-bike will jump forward like a rocket.

I do exactly what you do, and it works just fine.

Your bike is no doubt superior to mine in many ways. But mine does what I need it to do, and I feel no great need to replace it with one you'd approve of.

Let's just agree to disagree on this matter and move on.

 

[EMGX]

Some level of suspension would be great, I do not plan on doing any "off roading" but I do bike on some more unkempt bike trails in my area. My current mountain bike and the previous ebike just had front suspension and that worked perfectly well. I would mainly use it for those trails and then around my down town area. I do not live in a city and I am located in the USA.

A easy and inexpensive solution is to install a TSDZ2 torque sensing mid drive on your current mountain bike. With an 8 pin controller and VLCD5 display you can have a throttle as well as brake cut-outs. I have a throttle for one of my two TSDZ2 but have never used or even installed it. Performance is very natural and similar to the Yamaha PW-S that I have on a BH gravel bike. The biggest disadvantage is battery location and choosing a battery that you feel comfortable with quality wise. An added bonus is that installation is extremely simple and you can return your bike to stock in a minimal amount of time if desired. I've never had any problems with my TSDZ2 with several thousand miles of use.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Imagine a throttle free world...

 

[Gionnirocket]

Jeremy, sorry to say but you seem to be very American in your thinking. How comes I, a man with three medical conditions including leg atherosclerosis could ride distances up to 125 km with 5,000 ft elevation gain and 19% inclines without the throttle? Perhaps the throttle is not necessary at all when the person knows what the "cycling" means?

The thread title is an oxymoron.

You say this as if it was a deficiency.
When in actuality it means he's open minded and intelligent enough to know there is more than one way to do it right.... And in particular to Jeremy, one hell of a nice guy.
What a contrast to your very narrow tunnel vision.

I imagine a Stefan free world..... c'mon DHL!

 

[keithj69]

I think that OP may have been scared away with all this treasure trove of info.
@tricycle Frey bikes may have a bike for you. Depending on what you want, it could be here in a week, or if you go custom, it could take up to 2 months to get to you. No LBS support if you are not mechanically inclined. But they have waht you are asking for basic requirement wise. FLX, evelo, bitirix, himiway all have mid drive offerings also that fit your throttle requirement.
Also Zen ebikes. Great presence here from Ravi.

 

[Rexlion]

Yes, it does.
They know "cycling" is all about "pedalling". I could ride together with them, same as I ride with my 75 years old cycling friend. People who cannot pedal shall name their steeds the proper name: "mopeds".

It's unfortunate when people bring an attitude of superiority to their activities. It's much easier to get along when people don't have their noses in the air.

The thing you're overlooking is, the kind of ebike you value (light weight, responsive) with the addition of a throttle would still be the same light weight, responsive bike plus an added feature for those who desire it. Someone like you obviously would not want the throttle and might even disable it, but others would like to keep it and occasionally use it a bit. There's no reason to assume that the addition of a throttle would somehow wreck the ebike's dynamics or change its performance. So why denigrate the throttle? (Do you wish to insult all owners with throttles for their preference?)

Methinks it might be 'sour grapes.' (Ever read the story of the fox who jumped and jumped, trying unsuccessfully to reach some high-growing grapes, only to give up and walk away, muttering, "They probably were too sour anyway"?) Perhaps you rail against throttles, because you can't have one on your ebike....

 

[Rexlion]

Hello, I am new here, so hi everyone! I am looking at purchasing my second e-bike. For the last two years I have loved using a very early model e-bike, made before pedal assist was a thing, it only had a rear hub throttle. But recently have had to give it to another family member to use. So small talk out of the way, I have tried several different e-bikes in my area, both with and without pedal assist, and with mid drive and rear hub motors. What I learned from these test rides is that pedal assist only begins to feel natural to me when its a mid drive, torque sensor. I tried the trek verve + 3 and it rode like a dream, but the lack of a throttle is a deal breaker. Otherwise I loved that bike, so I hope that helps as far as recommendations. I look forward to your recommendations and any help is much appreciated! Thank you.

I wish I knew of some. Mid drives with throttles are pretty rare. When I was shopping a year ago I did ride such a one at a LBS, but can't recall the brand; it had a Bafang and, oddly, the throttle only would function while the pedals were being spun! It was a heavy ebike, too. I wound up buying a Ride1Up LMTD: hub motor, throttle, and torque sensor. Almost everything is a compromise. But I hope you find your unicorn.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

The thing you're overlooking is, the kind of ebike you value (light weight, responsive) with the addition of a throttle would still be the same light weight, responsive bike plus an added feature for those who desire it.

You people of the United States do not respect your own laws reading "throttle = Class 2"? And I thought the United States was a country based on the law.
Now, a banana republic? "Me want, cheap cheap cheap, I'm so lazy. Nobody would enforce the law". Guys, admit you are hypocrites. My friend J McC could uninstall the throttle to be a law abiding citizen but he finds excuses.

It makes me want to puke and I think I will leave these Forums. No place for me after Alaskan had died.

P.S. 122 km today, a low power e-bike, no throttle. How odd.

 

[Gionnirocket]

You people of the United States do not respect your own laws reading "throttle = Class 2"? And I thought the United States was a country based on the law.
Now, a banana republic? "Me want, cheap cheap cheap, I'm so lazy. Nobody would enforce the law". Guys, admit you are hypocrites. My friend J McC could uninstall the throttle to be a law abiding citizen but he finds excuses.

It makes me want to puke and I think I will leave these Forums. No place for me after Alaskan had died.

P.S. 122 km today, a low power e-bike, no throttle. How odd.

You're no Alaskan.

 

[keithj69]

You people of the United States do not respect your own laws reading "throttle = Class 2"? And I thought the United States was a country based on the law.
Now, a banana republic? "Me want, cheap cheap cheap, I'm so lazy. Nobody would enforce the law". Guys, admit you are hypocrites. My friend J McC could uninstall the throttle to be a law abiding citizen but he finds excuses.

It makes me want to puke and I think I will leave these Forums. No place for me after Alaskan had died.

P.S. 122 km today, a low power e-bike, no throttle. How odd.

While I respect your rides and your knowledge on the specialized bikes, maybe it would be best you stay off these throttle asking posts. We all have our opinion, and every once and awhile it is in each of our interest not to engage in something that is against our beliefs. No safety issues on this request and no need to get bent out of shape about the region.
I love your rides and pictures and respect most of your opinions but just be a good human. Each has their own needs.

 

[rarobo]

I have the Specialized Vado 5.0 IGH it’s my SUV…. Great bike. I ordered one of Ravi’s Zen Photons, looking forward to it, it will be my sport ride. I’m 70 and loving life… got a problem with that? Too bad

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

You people of the United States do not respect your own laws reading "throttle = Class 2"? ... My friend J McC could uninstall the throttle to be a law abiding citizen but he finds excuses.

But I am a law-abiding citizen. For the record, my bike is Class 2: 500W with torque-sensing pedal assist maxing out at 20 mph plus throttle. Totally legal, and I explicitly bought it to be legal.

Really, Stephan, where is all this rage, wild generalization, and ill-informed accusation coming from?? Did someone kill a loved one of yours with a throttle?

 

[keithj69]

But I am a law-abiding citizen. For the record, my bike is Class 2: 500W with torque-sensing pedal assist maxing out at 20 mph plus throttle. Totally legal, and I explicitly bought it to be legal.

Really, Stephan, where is all this rage, wild generalization, and ill-informed accusation coming from?? Did someone kill a loved one of yours with a throttle?

And to add, as dreaded american owning a canadian surface604 bike like Jeremy, why the rage?