Help debugging 0 MPH with Bafang M620 & 860c display

[smorgasbord]

Just curious, but have you tried plugging the display that doesn't work into the other bike?

No, I haven't, but as I haven't thrown it out yet I suppose I could. If it works, that would just be head-spinningly bad tho.

 

[AHicks]

No, I haven't, but as I haven't thrown it out yet I suppose I could. If it works, that would just be head-spinningly bad tho.

Nope, it would just point to the fact there is/was a bad connection at the connector, where it plugs into the harness....

 

[smorgasbord]

OK, I might give it a shot, but the connectors all look clean and without any wear. Before swapping displays I did try moving the wires around a lot to see if there was some kind of intermittent cable/connector issue.

 

[smorgasbord]

Ugh, so I unplugged the new display to connect my other bike's EggRider to update the wheel circumference.
The bike was dead.
I plug back the working display.
The bike was still dead!
I plugged the EggRider back into my other bike, and it works fine.
I unplug the working display and the connector came apart!

Unfortunately, it came apart on the wiring harness side, so I need a new wiring harness, or at least that one wire.

Now, I'm thinking that the connector had gone bad, which is why my bike was giving errors. Unplugging the display and plugging in a new display "fixed" it since it probably tweaked the wires a bit. But then another unplug/replug broke it for good, and then it came apart.

At any rate, just a note to be careful when plugging/unplugging those connectors. Mine came apart on unplugging, which to be honest, I was probably a bit less careful than I am when plugging, when I need to line up the arrows.

 

[AHicks]

There you go! Mystery solved....

 

[Gionnirocket]

Intermittent problems can be the hardest to solve.

 

[smorgasbord]

My new harness just arrived. But apparently, there's a risk that when the connector broke it short-circuited the controller, which would be bad.....

I'll do a quick outside the frame connection tomorrow and hopefully all is well. But if not, what are my replacement controller options for UART Bafang Ultra at 52volts? Watt Wagons Archon? AliExpress?

 

[smorgasbord]

Ugh, with the new harness I still can't turn the bike on. Battery is 90% charged, tried 2 displays, all connector pins look straight and good.

Here's what the culprit actually turned out to be:

There is a cover plate there that's made of aluminum and is very sharp in the opening (surprise!), and over a few years turning the handlebars (probably including turning them all the way during storage or whatever) cut through the housing and at first cut a wire then cut a second wire and then shorted the two together.

I guess it's new controller or whole new motor time. What are my options today?

 

[Gionnirocket]

It could be just the cut wires... Any chance of repairing?
Hard to see where this is on the bike... but if it's the controller leads, replacing the controller might be the easiest.
In any case address the sharp aluminum, add insulation and allow extra slack if possible

 

[smorgasbord]

I completely replaced the wiring harness. I think it shorted and fried the motor controller, but I haven't yet opened up the motor.
Anyone rebuild these?
Any way to just buy a new UART 52v 1300 watt Ultra motor?

 

[Gionnirocket]

I completely replaced the wiring harness. I think it shorted and fried the motor controller, but I haven't yet opened up the motor.
Anyone rebuild these?
Any way to just buy a new UART 52v 1300 watt Ultra motor?

Ohh so the cut cable is on the main harness that you replaced?
You could just replace the controller... I doubt the motor is damaged.
Greenbikekit is a reputable option. You can also contact WattWagon

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[AHicks]

If you've replaced the main harness, making sure that's plugged in fully w/no bent pins, and you've tried both displays, and still no sign of the display powering up, for the difference in price between a complete motor and the price of just the controller, MY next move would likely be the controller (and calibration tool). I'm having a tough time believing those little wires in the main harness could ever find a way through to back feed the motor itself with enough power to hurt it - especially hurt it in a manner that would not allow the display to power up....

Still, I get where somebody might loose total confidence in that whole setup and go for replacing the whole shooting match. That's just not a move I would make is my only point.... -Al

 

[smorgasbord]

If you've replaced the main harness, making sure that's plugged in fully w/no bent pins, and you've tried both displays, and still no sign of the display powering up, for the difference in price between a complete motor and the price of just the controller, MY next move would likely be the controller (and calibration tool). I'm having a tough time believing those little wires in the main harness could ever find a way through to back feed the motor itself with enough power to hurt it - especially hurt it in a manner that would not allow the display to power up....

Still, I get where somebody might loose total confidence in that whole setup and go for replacing the whole shooting match. That's just not a move I would make is my only point.... -Al

Yeah, I ordered the controller and calibration display from GreenBikeKit and we'll see how that goes. Getting a whole barebones motor was going to be like $850 shipped, so $256 shipped seemed the more prudent way to go - although there may come a time when I wish I had a spare.
Note that these are 1000 watt motors (30 amp max), which is less than my current Ultra (from Luna).

 

[smorgasbord]

I mess up my Bafang m620 controller during reassembly after putting new gears. There's a complete new motor on the way from Biktrix.
I'm going to watch how @smorgasbord goes about calibrating the motor. I have a broken motor that needs a controller and calibration.

Just curious - how did you mess up your controller?
I'm going to follow the calibration video from GreenBikeKit:

Which actually doesn't say much, just how to enter calibration mode, how to re-try, then how to keep re-trying until it just works.
Wish me luck.

PS: Did you have to call Biktrix to order the Ultra motor? Do they sell it as a stand-alone item, and what power ratings does it have?

 

[smorgasbord]

Long story short here is a picture.
I use my mini impact driver and pinched one of the 100V capacitors
Yeah Biktrix is sending a complete motor calibrated to 37 mph US specifications not Canadian 20 mph motor.

So, what hints/tips/suggestions do you have for me?
I did notice on the video I linked above that one has to be careful that the wires stay in their part of the housing.
If you don't mind, can you explain how the impact driver pinched a capacitor? I would have thought the impact driver would have only been used when the motor housing was closed.
Also, if I called Biktrix, would they sell me a 37mph Ultra motor? My bike isn't a Biktrix.
Thanks.

 

[smorgasbord]

THE PLOT THICKENS

First, a backgrounder: I have two of the same bikes, although I've done some mods to each to suit our different riding preferences, and since they were ordered at different times they came with slightly different equipment. For instance, thge first bike came with an 860C displaywhile the second bike came with a DPC18 display.
And then I installed an EggRider on my bike since that enables me to use my phone as the display, and for running RideWithGPS navigation (BT connected to my Sena helmet to I hear the turn-by-turn directions).
This means I essentially have 3 bike display/selectors.

You may recall, when I first starting having issues on bike #2, I swapped to another display (since I had a spare from putting the EggRider on bike #1) and all seemed to be good. And then a short time later on (having messed with the brake levers and swapping displays a couple of times), bike #2 wouldn't turn on no matter which display I put on it! And then I found the cut wires in the main harness, so I replaced that, but still the bike won't turn on with either display. So now I've removed the motor from the frame completely as well as taken off the cranks and spider in preparation for a controller replacement.

Today I went for a ride by myself and realized that I needed to update the wheel circumference in my EggRider display since I had changed tires. So I rolled on the bike for a few revs measured the distance, got the circumference, and entered that in the EggRider's Display settings. I then realized that the normal 28" wheel is closer to my actual 27.5x2.8 tire circumference than the 27 so changed that in EggRider's Bafang Basic Settings.

And then here's where it gets thick: I decided to see if both/either of the other displays were good after all. So I connected one to my good bike (bike #1) and after a little while I got the "30H" error. OK, so I power down, connected the other display, and right away I get a "30H" error. Hmm. Reconnect the EggRider and I don't see any errors (just the normal "R34" range thing). The 860c is the one that doesn't display an error until I do something like change the PAS level, while the DPC-18 shows the error right off. Neither shows the MPH when the rear wheel is turning. But, again, all is fine with the EggRider.

Now I'm thinking:
• The bad harness wire somehow made both displays defective. Good thing I didn't connect the EggRider to that bike.
• The bad displays still turn on with my good bike, but I didn't go for a ride with the bike with those bad displays, just changed PAS levels and settings and hit the throttle.
• The bad wire in bike #2 apparently got worse as I unplugged and replugged displays until it actually shorted something in the controller.
• I need yet another display for bike #2.

Any other thoughts from you arm-chair troubleshooters out there? I guess that bad wiring could hurt a display, but really? I've got a second wiring harness coming now, along with a new Ultra motor controller, so my plan is to connect and get things working on the bench before I install on the bike (which has a new harness that would be hard to remove without breaking it given the small frame opening near the handlebar).

And, which display is currently the best, assuming one doesn't want the EggRider? The 860c? Anyone ever order from Varstom as they even have a touch-screen display that looks cool.

 

[smorgasbord]

If you are using eggrider your motor must be UART there are members in the forum that can point you in the direction to get your motor running and fine tune it.

Thanks, but I'm already up to speed on EggRider and tuning. The display question is for the other bike. I use the EggRider but my wife wants a built-in bigger display, so the 860c or T1 look like the best options so far unless someone suggests something else. The DPC-18 requires going into Settings to reset the Trip, so that kills that, btw. The 860c Trip is reset by pressing + and - at the same time.

My concerns are related to the cascading problems I've had, apparently looking bad wiring lead to breaking two displays and the Ultra controller. Hopefully with new wiring harness I won't be breaking things anymore.

The only motor controller I've been able to find so far is the standard one, when my original is a Luna that goes to 35 amps instead of the stock 30, but maybe we can live with that.

 

[AHicks]

When talking Ultra, there's just the one controller available for the Canbus motors (the OEM one). All the after market stuff, the stuff I know about anyway, ALL require a UART based motor for conversion. The mounting of the controller was changed, just to make sure you can't retrofit the UART type controller, AND there's the differences in the connector shapes and styles. I KNOW the main harness and display head would need to be changed at minimum, and pretty sure the torque sensor end was changed as well. In short, somebody with a Canbus motor has really got to want to belly up with a fat wallet to go UART - even when faced with buying a complete motor.....

With 2 bikes and your extra parts, I MIGHT be able to figure out what you have going on if it were here in my shop all laid out in front of me - but to try and help in this format is just beyond me. I will say I MUCH prefer the 860c display over the DPC-18, and the 750c over both, but that's more of a personal aesthetics thing. I like it's lower profile and side by side speedo/watt meter setup.

Last, I would park that Egg Rider until I had a better handle on things, but that's me. I just don't trust aftermarket stuff like that when it comes to the issues you seem to be running into. Best of luck! -Al

 

[smorgasbord]

I don’t have a CANbus setup and am not looking to convert to CANbus.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Why haven't you tried Luna for parts/controller/support?
As far as the 30/35a max... How often do you see that or come close to that when you ride?