Helmet Recommendation

[sc00ter]

How do I get a A-Hole Merit Badge? If its a real badge I want one! My motorcycle jacket is covered in buttons and pins and other junk, mostly obscure grind bands and pinball stuff, but I lack a A-Hole Merit Badge!

Now, its your choice to wear a helmet. Me, after my little fall, I WEAR mine. Buy a helmet you'll wear and use it. Hitting your head without one sucks really bad.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Wearing a helmet did nothing for my last fall.

Ya, and wearing the safety belt did nothing for your last car crash. The safety belt and air-bag could actually do harm to you -- and I can find thousands of articles proving that. Same as plethora of material proving that getting vaccinated can be harmful.
But what expect from a person who rides his e-bike in sandals?

Poland does not require wearing a helmet on a traditional bike or 25 km/h e-bike (it is mandatory for S-Pedelec, which is -- roughly speaking -- a Class 3 e-bike). Yet, there is great awareness wearing a helmet increases your survival chances.

Find a helmetless person here.

 

[tomjasz]

Now, its your choice to wear a helmet.

I never said I don't wear helmets. I do, but I don't try to grab the moral high ground.
This piece is from an Army Helicopter trainer. and pilot. Sadly Al is now taking his dirt nap.

Thought I'd offer some food for thought on the issue of scooter "safety", which is often confused with "survivability". To do so, I will draw on what we preached and practiced in Army Aviation.

"Safety" are the practices we followed to prevent mishaps. This not only included extensive training, by-the-book operations, extensive education and the like, but the thorough investigation of every mishap to gain lessons that could prevent future mishaps.

"Survivability" refers to the steps we took to make a mishap as survivable as possible. For many years, we simply lumped "survivability" in with aviation safety, but by the 80's we began to realize that while "survivability" was a critical issue, it was a discrete subset of concerns from "Safety" itself. For example, a protective helmet does not increase "Safety", but it does increase, within limits, "Survivability".

"Safety" consists of the operating and maintenance practices you follow. All the protective gear in the world does not make speeding or riding with improper tire inflation or bad brakes "safe". That is simply inherently unsafe operation, made somewhat more survivable.

The Army stopped referring to protective equipment as "Safety Gear" and now calls it "Survivability Equipment". It is something you never want to have to rely upon, and the only way to minimize this reliance is by safe operating and maintenance practices. "Survivability Equipment" plays no role until a mishap has actually occurred. It is like airbags in a car, which deploy only after the fact to minimize injuries.

Why do I post these blinding flashes of the obvious? Because I think it is worthwhile for enthusiasts as ourselves to regularly and routinely discuss "Safety" and "Survivability" in their most basic terms. If it is possible to "prioritize" these two subjects, then "Safety" is first. If absolute safety was possible (which it isn't), then "Survivability" would not be an issue. On the other hand, there is virtually no equipment available to make a patently unsafe rider "Survivable".

As I have posted before, a detailed study by the Washington State DOT found that less than 20% of the fatal motorcycle accidents on their roads did not involve cycle driver error as a significant contributing factor. Four out of five fatalities were thus a result of factors that were within the cycle driver's control, and the driver opted to do otherwise. That is a "Safety" issue that we all can learn from. Speeding, alcohol, improper lane position and improper passing were the major factors.

Full Gear is a great "Survivability" practice, but it contributes nothing to "Safety", as it does not prevent mishaps. Further, an armored jacket provides little or no protection to internal organs from rapid deceleration g forces, so don't forget gear limitations. Yes, it is worth wearing, but from a "Survivability" standpoint only. The question we must always ask ourselves is whether our own actions make the need for Full Gear more necessary or not. If the answer is "yes" then we are a safety hazard, not only to ourselves, but to anyone else we involve in our own mishaps.

During my military flying career, on more occasions than I care to remember, I had to weigh risk acceptance to perform a mission that involved saving the lives of others. I am not risk averse, and sometimes the rules had to be "stretched", at least in my judgment. Fortunately, I was successful in these instances, even though the odds were less favorable. The chances I took in these instances, however, were not chances I would take during routine flying. And, never during my 50+ years of PTW driving was there an instance when the "rules needed to be stretched". Ain't saying I never broke the speed limit or the like, but never justifiably so. For example, finding the true maximum speed of a vehicle is a lot of fun (been there, done that and have several mugs), but if it exceeds the speed limit, it is not truly "safe" not matter how we slice it. And I am not going to entertain any argument to the contrary. I am guilty and so are some of you. Walking away without incident from an unsafe act is nothing other than luck. The act is still unsafe.

Sorry if I am being a bit too philosophical for some folks tastes. I have stood at the rim of too many "smoking craters" caused by operator error, and wish that this could be prevented more often. I wish you all safe and enjoyable riding, an experience which is primarily our own doing. And, if you are unfortunate enough to have a mishap, I hope it will be of as little consequence to your well being as is humanly possible, something that your protective gear can influence quite a bit.

A bit more than 2 cents worth from a fun loving old codger. Just had to mount that soapbox while I had some time on my hands.

Next to flying, scootin' is the most fun you can have with your pants on! In that spirit, gonna hop on the Vespa and go get a bit of lunch. My buddy's taverna is now open.

Filakia

Al

 

[tomjasz]

How do I get a A-Hole Merit Badge? If its a real badge I want one! My motorcycle jacket is covered in buttons and pins and other junk, mostly obscure grind bands and pinball stuff, but I lack a A-Hole Merit Badge!

Now, its your choice to wear a helmet. Me, after my little fall, I WEAR mine. Buy a helmet you'll wear and use it. Hitting your head without one sucks really bad.

Many 2 wheel forums ban helmet discussions. 90% of the time the thread will go hostile. I added the link knowing the are several studies indicating that safety devices, in this case, bike helmets, increase the feeling of safety. Studies have shown riders take more risks.

Amazon, Aliexpress, and eBay for patches. About $28 for ten on Aliexpress. The last batch from Aliexpress had velcro backing.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Many 2 wheel forums ban helmet discussions. 90% of the time the thread will go hostile.

One month after this thread died, you come back, make the thread alive again, and are trying to discourage members to wear helmets.
Such practice should be banned.

One might say a soldier wearing a helmet for combat becomes less safe because wearing the helmet gives him a false sense of security... He should also get rid of the bulletproof vest, I presume?

 

[tomjasz]

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Once you pop, you can't stop.

On one day, a female friend of mine set off for her virgin trip on her brand new Como 5.0. She was accompanied by her husband riding a trad bike and by me. All of us wore helmets.

Five kilometres on the trip, an unleashed dog ran under her Como's front wheel. She did a dramatic over-the-bars and fell her face forward, and fainted. The emergency came but it seemed she needed no further help. Her glasses were broken, her face was bruised but her head was intact. She even could cycle back home. Later, it turned out she broke her forearm.

She could have died or become a vegetable on her first e-bike ride, if not wearing the helmet.

It is bullshit to claim wearing the helmet falsely increases the feeling of safety. No. A cyclist soon forgets he or she is wearing a helmet. The helmet is there to protect your damn skull and brain (if any there).

 

[Merle Nelson]

I never said I don't wear helmets. I do, but I don't try to grab the moral high ground.
This piece is from an Army Helicopter trainer. and pilot. Sadly Al is now taking his dirt nap.

Thought I'd offer some food for thought on the issue of scooter "safety", which is often confused with "survivability". To do so, I will draw on what we preached and practiced in Army Aviation.

"Safety" are the practices we followed to prevent mishaps. This not only included extensive training, by-the-book operations, extensive education and the like, but the thorough investigation of every mishap to gain lessons that could prevent future mishaps.

"Survivability" refers to the steps we took to make a mishap as survivable as possible. For many years, we simply lumped "survivability" in with aviation safety, but by the 80's we began to realize that while "survivability" was a critical issue, it was a discrete subset of concerns from "Safety" itself. For example, a protective helmet does not increase "Safety", but it does increase, within limits, "Survivability".

"Safety" consists of the operating and maintenance practices you follow. All the protective gear in the world does not make speeding or riding with improper tire inflation or bad brakes "safe". That is simply inherently unsafe operation, made somewhat more survivable.

The Army stopped referring to protective equipment as "Safety Gear" and now calls it "Survivability Equipment". It is something you never want to have to rely upon, and the only way to minimize this reliance is by safe operating and maintenance practices. "Survivability Equipment" plays no role until a mishap has actually occurred. It is like airbags in a car, which deploy only after the fact to minimize injuries.

Why do I post these blinding flashes of the obvious? Because I think it is worthwhile for enthusiasts as ourselves to regularly and routinely discuss "Safety" and "Survivability" in their most basic terms. If it is possible to "prioritize" these two subjects, then "Safety" is first. If absolute safety was possible (which it isn't), then "Survivability" would not be an issue. On the other hand, there is virtually no equipment available to make a patently unsafe rider "Survivable".

As I have posted before, a detailed study by the Washington State DOT found that less than 20% of the fatal motorcycle accidents on their roads did not involve cycle driver error as a significant contributing factor. Four out of five fatalities were thus a result of factors that were within the cycle driver's control, and the driver opted to do otherwise. That is a "Safety" issue that we all can learn from. Speeding, alcohol, improper lane position and improper passing were the major factors.

Full Gear is a great "Survivability" practice, but it contributes nothing to "Safety", as it does not prevent mishaps. Further, an armored jacket provides little or no protection to internal organs from rapid deceleration g forces, so don't forget gear limitations. Yes, it is worth wearing, but from a "Survivability" standpoint only. The question we must always ask ourselves is whether our own actions make the need for Full Gear more necessary or not. If the answer is "yes" then we are a safety hazard, not only to ourselves, but to anyone else we involve in our own mishaps.

During my military flying career, on more occasions than I care to remember, I had to weigh risk acceptance to perform a mission that involved saving the lives of others. I am not risk averse, and sometimes the rules had to be "stretched", at least in my judgment. Fortunately, I was successful in these instances, even though the odds were less favorable. The chances I took in these instances, however, were not chances I would take during routine flying. And, never during my 50+ years of PTW driving was there an instance when the "rules needed to be stretched". Ain't saying I never broke the speed limit or the like, but never justifiably so. For example, finding the true maximum speed of a vehicle is a lot of fun (been there, done that and have several mugs), but if it exceeds the speed limit, it is not truly "safe" not matter how we slice it. And I am not going to entertain any argument to the contrary. I am guilty and so are some of you. Walking away without incident from an unsafe act is nothing other than luck. The act is still unsafe.

Sorry if I am being a bit too philosophical for some folks tastes. I have stood at the rim of too many "smoking craters" caused by operator error, and wish that this could be prevented more often. I wish you all safe and enjoyable riding, an experience which is primarily our own doing. And, if you are unfortunate enough to have a mishap, I hope it will be of as little consequence to your well being as is humanly possible, something that your protective gear can influence quite a bit.

A bit more than 2 cents worth from a fun loving old codger. Just had to mount that soapbox while I had some time on my hands.

Next to flying, scootin' is the most fun you can have with your pants on! In that spirit, gonna hop on the Vespa and go get a bit of lunch. My buddy's taverna is now open.

Filakia

Al

That is an incredible explanation of the difference between two things or two mindsets I have been trying to express to my wife.

My wife is a part of a "mountain biking ladies" group that posts about all kinds of things including copious crashes. (Just for the record, I would crash more than them if I did what they do.) My wife doesn't want to crash but sees it as inevitable.

I contend it's not inevitable. I am an arborist and climbing trees, whether 15 feet off the ground or 200 don't have an allowance for falling. I put rules and practices into place to absolutely prevent it.

Good distinction, safety vs survivability.

 

[LovinEbike]

We have Sena R2's and love the communication feature, works great for us. The rear lights on the helmet don't do much.
As far as safety, I believe the biggest issue is do you wear your helmet correctly and are you fairly observant of your surroundings.
In fact the communication feature of our R2's actually helps for safety as well. The lead rider can alert to things like glass on the trail/road to be aware of. As with most things there is not one right answer so figure out what's important to you.

 

[Merle Nelson]

Welcome to EBR LovinEbike. How do you find the Rs to be for connecting up and reconnecting when they break connection?

I agree with all your thoughts on trail communication - my wife frequently tells me to stop talking or she'll shut hers off. (Downhill at speed on mountain bike trails, or working hard going up hill.)

 

[LovinEbike]

Our experience with the R2 helmets connections has been very good.

• easy button press on helmets to connect (no phone or bluetooth connection required)
• If we get too far apart the connection temporarily drops but automagically reconnects when we get closer (works very well)
• when we do pair (bt) our phones the helmet gives a notification beep of an incoming call, then press one helmet button and call is automatically answered

so far so good!

 

[Merle Nelson]

Ahh, sounds good. We went with the mesh technology (Sena M1?) because of promise of automatic reconnecting. It does that some. Sometimes seems to need more button pressings than I would expect for this or that.

 

[Nomad]

Wearing a good helmet is probably a good idea. Forcing people over 18 to wear one not so much. Then there is the whole what's good helmet thing.