Haibike 2020 models

Ravi Kempaiah

Well-Known Member
Region
Canada
City
Halifax
I think model year 2020 Haibike mountain bikes are really sexy!
This particular model is an example.

Latest gen-4 Bosch motor
1125 Whr battery
Integrated front and rear lights
excellent choice of components and paint.

Looks really cool and quite capable!

1577825142849.png
 
I don’t see them listed for Us ??

and I think Bosch 4 has aERY RESTRICTIVE Delimitation POLICY in place.

If is delimited the whole ebike is worthless b/c the motor will be completely locked.

Have to check if a 28mph speeds is on the menu offers For the TQ motor .
 
I don’t see them listed for Us ??

and I think Bosch 4 has aERY RESTRICTIVE Delimitation POLICY in place.

If is delimited the whole ebike is worthless b/c the motor will be completely locked.

Have to check if a 28mph speeds is on the menu offers For the TQ motor .
Yes, from my understanding that info is true and found on other forums as well for Bosch motors. However, I am not sure if any of the other leading brands are doing that also. If anyone knows, please chime in. Not a big fan of any company trying to brick a motor due to installing a speed dongle/delimiter. Voiding the motor warranty seems justified IMO.
 
Yes, from my understanding that info is true and found on other forums as well for Bosch motors. However, I am not sure if any of the other leading brands are doing that also. If anyone knows, please chime in. Not a big fan of any company trying to brick a motor due to installing a speed dongle/delimiter. Voiding the motor warranty seems justified IMO.

I have the exact opposite opinion, actual speed of the vehicle has nothing to do with the motor output or specs and voiding warranty based on that just doesn't make sense.

Speed limit is a legal issue and if the company is trying to enforce its legal obligations then stopping the motor support(bricking it) altogether when modification is detected is the right way to go.
 
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I have the exact opposite opinion, actual speed of the vehicle has nothing to do with the motor output or specs and voiding warranty based on that just doesn't make sense.

Speed limit is a legal issue and if the company is trying to enforce its legal obligations then stopping the support altogether when modification is detected is the right way to go.
I agree, however, I do not support voiding anything if the owner is using the product the way they choose. That is just policy. Hard to fight it, or just don't buy it.
 
I think model year 2020 Haibike mountain bikes are really sexy!
This particular model is an example.

Latest gen-4 Bosch motor
1125 Whr battery
Integrated front and rear lights
excellent choice of components and paint.

Looks really cool and quite capable!

View attachment 43443
They have some with the battery fully in the frame tube. It's not just about the look
 
I have the exact opposite opinion, actual speed of the vehicle has nothing to do with the motor output or specs and voiding warranty based on that just doesn't make sense.

Speed limit is a legal issue and if the company is trying to enforce its legal obligations then stopping the motor support(bricking it) altogether when modification is detected is the right way to go.
I disagree with most of that.
If a motor is designed to operate up to 25km/h and average 250W, the amount of time it would sustain peak wattage at 600W or more is very small. If a tuning device is causing the motor to average at more than 250W then it should be a warranty issue and i have no problem with the company to record this info and use it in warranty claims, not brick it.
Yes there are legal/insurance issues, I hope that a manufacturer of motors can legally get away with not stopping/bricking their motor upon tuning because it was legal when it left their factory. If the road speed limit in a country is 110km/h but you own a 6000 square kilometer property with many smooth private roads, why shouldn't you be able to go faster than 110km/h?
However for insurance/legal issues i think recording time/date/how long ago a bike was tuned just before an accident is warranted.
 
I disagree with most of that.
If a motor is designed to operate up to 25km/h and average 250W, the amount of time it would sustain peak wattage at 600W or more is very small. If a tuning device is causing the motor to average at more than 250W then it should be a warranty issue and i have no problem with the company to record this info and use it in warranty claims, not brick it.
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We are talking about speed delimiters not any other device that may lead to run the motor at a power output more than the rated one. Most of the popular delimiters connects between sensors and the motor and misreports the actual speed so that the motor does not cut out and those are the ones we refer to here.

What is your statement based on? How exactly vehicle speed is affecting the duration of the peak output?

Your motor may be producing 600w at cadence equal to 75 rpm, with 1:1 gearing if you are going 50km/h with 1:2 gearing you will go 25km/h there is absolutely no difference in terms of motor output/stress etc. the first case may be riding on flats and the second is climbing or riding against high winds. If climbing at 25km/h at 600w is not voiding the warranty then it makes no sense going 50km/h under the same cadence/power to void it.
 
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I believe the 2020 Haibikes will all be Yamaha and we might see the Bosch ones late 2020 or early 2021. No word on if and when we will se Flyon at the moment.
 
We are talking about speed delimiters not any other device that may lead to run the motor at a power output more than the rated one. Most of the popular delimiters connects between sensors and the motor and misreports the actual speed so that the motor does not cut out and those are the ones we refer to here.

What is your statement based on? How exactly vehicle speed is affecting the duration of the peak output?

Your motor may be producing 600w at cadence equal to 75 rpm, with 1:1 gearing if you are going 50km/h with 1:2 gearing you will go 25km/h there is absolutely no difference in terms of motor output/stress etc. the first case may be riding on flats and the second is climbing or riding against high winds. If climbing at 25km/h at 600w is not voiding the warranty then it makes no sense going 50km/h under the same cadence/power to void it.
On average a delimiter will push the motor harder than without. Wind resistance is a huge factor in affecting the duration of peak output.
The HS models =may= have higher rated discrete components than the non-HS (maybe military/aerospace spec or automotive spec vs industrial spec) so that they can handle higher temperatures for longer. There may be different heat dissipation techniques employed in the HS models. There may be more expensive higher grade greases involved, there may be higher grade insulation on the copper strands of the motor windings. Who knows for sure?
Yes, they may be the same, they may also not.
 
On average a delimiter will push the motor harder than without. Wind resistance is a huge factor in affecting the duration of peak output.
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No this is false. First of all peak output in general refers to the maximum possible output of the device whether it is a speaker or an electric motor. This power is not guaranteed to be sustained continuously under normal conditions(normal conditions are defined by the manufacturer) but it can be sustained in bursts when the device is capable of doing so. The power that can be sustained continuously is "Nominal power" which the device should be able to output for longer periods under normal conditions.

Well designed electrical motors have protective measures that take into account several sensors' data like temperature to regulate the time for peak power. Basically your motor will output 600W as long as the temperature is below a certain threshold, the amp draw is within certain limits, battery is not stressed etc. When these variables are beyond the limits the speed controller simply decreases the power output until they are back to sustainable values.

In a well designed device, only the relevant information is monitored for the protection circuitry. In a mid drive system the speed of the vehicle is determined by the cadence(rpm at the motor) plus mechanical conversion parameters such as gearing and wheel size. The mechanical conversion parameters are completely independent of the electrical system parameters hence for protective circuitry, there is no information that can be had from the "speed" variable when you already have the rpm/cadence information.

One may speculate that the manufacturer is relying on the rider not to push the product. Even if this is the case, limiting speed will not achieve this. As I mentioned many times earlier even with 15mph limit, the motor can be stressed just as much if not more by mountain biking and climbing hills (these climbs can be very long) while having the maximum assist(this actually puts more stress on the motor compared to high speed rides, since at lower speeds the airflow is less hence the motor will not be cooled as well). Of course if the company is relying on limiting speed instead of proper protective measures that is really bad design on its part. Bosch is too good of a company to make this kind of bad design decision.


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The HS models =may= have higher rated discrete components than the non-HS (maybe military/aerospace spec or automotive spec vs industrial spec) so that they can handle higher temperatures for longer. There may be different heat dissipation techniques employed in the HS models. There may be more expensive higher grade greases involved, there may be higher grade insulation on the copper strands of the motor windings. Who knows for sure?
Yes, they may be the same, they may also not.

Now this may be true but it has nothing to do with the speed limit. Bosch rates HS motors 350W NOMINAL while the CX is rated at 250W. This may indicate that HS may have better internals to cope with the heat and sustain 100W more continuously. I actually asked this on the forums but no one seems to know the actual technical data.

However when you bypass the speed limit on your CX it will NOT make it a 350w nominal motor! It will still output 250W continuously but you will have the support beyond the speed limit. On the other hand if this technical data is correct, the HS motor will keep on pushing 350W all the way up to 28mph.

What this means is if both motors are pushed to the point that they can not sustain their peak power, CX will decrease the power to 250W while HS will be able to keep it at 350W and will be faster.
 
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We are already in the mid of 2020. Does anyone know if Haibike is going to start selling their 2020 models (including flyon models) to the North America market?
 
2020 models have already shown up on the HaibikeUSA web site, with a banner on the front page specifying so. Doesn't look like the flyon equipped models are coming to the U.S., at least not yet.
 
2020 models have already shown up on the HaibikeUSA web site, with a banner on the front page specifying so. Doesn't look like the flyon equipped models are coming to the U.S., at least not yet.


I saw that, but most of them are Yamaha motor models. They need to bring at least the new Bosch motor models with new frame design like the one Ravi's posted (#1)
 
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