global warming

[DaveMatthews]

It is abusive to describe the "horse dewormer" narrative as some kind of liberal media bias plot. I live in an area where a lot of people have animals and nearly all of the hardware stores and the like carry those products. Well, they normally do. I made a run for pet supplies and some parts yesterday and had to hit two different hardware stores, a farm supply store, and a store that kind of defies description but mostly sells irrigation supplies. All of them normally carry veterinary-grade ivermectin. All of them were sold out. All of them had prominent notices that the ivermectin they sold was not for human consumption.

It isn't like all of the horses here suddenly got wormy.

You are a complete loon if you choose to self-medicate with a veterinary product rather than take a free vaccine that is proven safe and effective. Unfortunately the loons are in the house.

I have no opposition to legitimate and well-designed research into whether ivermectin can help people infected with covid. However, the fact that the study showing the most effectiveness on the largest population was retracted due to serious integrity problems (with evidence of plagiarism and data falsification) makes me extremely skeptical: you wouldn't have those problems in a study if the medication being studied worked.

People are stupid, but moron that later.

 

[Handlebars]

a free vaccine that is proven safe and effective.

Not effective enough to stop infection and transmission. It isn't about taking "a shot". The second, now the third, and looking forward to fourth and fifth, the thinking is that every 5 to 8 months and 2 pills daily, for the foreseeable future.
The other part of the strangeness that some are not willing to admit, is that vaccines that provide such limited actual protection from infection are like breeding programs for variants that can do more and more.
The principle is very very well known and it is why doctors reserve penicillin where possible; the baddies do very quick evolution and adapt. The partially effective vaccines given to infected people are like a breeding program, it's exactly how one would make a resistant subject, able to leap hurdles in it's way; if you fenced in all the wolves in an area with a partially effective barrier, the better escape artists would be the next generation.

It's quite simple. Write it down.

 

[tomjasz]

You are a complete loon if you choose to self-medicate with a veterinary product

Sadly this is all to common. Many antibiotics are available for fish tanks. Goof balls have been using, dosing themselves and, self treating for decades.

 

[Handlebars]

Sadly this is all to common. Many antibiotics are available for fish tanks. Goof balls have been using, dosing themselves and, self treating for decades.

That is a sad misinterpretation of facts. Ask why people would choose to use veterinary supplies and you might not mislead yourself so badly.

First, try to remember that vet school has higher admission standards than medical school.

In my own experience, I have had a few horribly inept and even dishonest doctors...in fact, I just got a prescription for pink eye from my family doctor and it tells me to put it in the eye not affected, right vs left.

This is the second time I've had a doctor choose for the wrong side because of the observer viewpoint being reversed from the patient. Left eyeis on the right side when facing the patient. The previous one wanted to do a procedure on the wrong leg. I happened to look at his notes when he left for a minute. When asked about his mistake, he explained that he was looking from his perspective, and sorry. I walked. out.
It's common enough that there have been campaigns to make surgery safer by making sure everyone knows about viewpoint when removing organs and any other little deals.

So for what reasons would a rational person opt for obtaining veterinary supplies?
Doctors will not prescribe just any amount the person feels they need. Obviously. But what about a person who knows they might need such supplies in an emergency? Out of luck.

What if they know that doctors are working for the "public good" as well as personal good, and will not give superior meds if they think an inferior med will do, because they are protecting the usefulness of the better drug, for the public good. They have dual and sometimes conflicting purposes.
Me, personally, I want the better product.

Those are only a couple of reasons why a *more* knowledgeable and *more* rational person might buy veterinary meds. When my dog almost died from some outside really nasty bug, my vet gave some stomach meds and antibiotic.
The dog picked up quickly, from perhaps a couple of hours from death's door. From being too weak to eat a grain of rice, was up and wagging real quick, but $500 later. There were some stomach pills and antibiotic left, so I saved them like gold, just in case. That disease hits FAST and when there is blood pouring out the back end, there's no time to spare.
A neighbor had her dog die as they were on the phone begging to get a credit or mercy visit. If I had known, I could have shared. I will not be without a supply of the stomach med or the antibiotic.
Antibiotic pet fish supplies.

There are responsible and life saving reasons to have emergency drug supplies, not least when the world is censoring doctors, top scientists, and researchers, and when political entities are laying down the law on what your doctor can do for you.

And you might not happen to have a $1000 lying around. Then what?

You guys need to check your privilege.

 

[DavidRvR]

It is abusive to describe the "horse dewormer" narrative as some kind of liberal media bias plot. I live in an area where a lot of people have animals and nearly all of the hardware stores and the like carry those products. Well, they normally do. I made a run for pet supplies and some parts yesterday and had to hit two different hardware stores, a farm supply store, and a store that kind of defies description but mostly sells irrigation supplies. All of them normally carry veterinary-grade ivermectin. All of them were sold out. All of them had prominent notices that the ivermectin they sold was not for human consumption.

It isn't like all of the horses here suddenly got wormy.

You are a complete loon if you choose to self-medicate with a veterinary product rather than take a free vaccine that is proven safe and effective. Unfortunately the loons are in the house.

I have no opposition to legitimate and well-designed research into whether ivermectin can help people infected with covid. However, the fact that the study showing the most effectiveness on the largest population was retracted due to serious integrity problems (with evidence of plagiarism and data falsification) makes me extremely skeptical: you wouldn't have those problems in a study if the medication being studied worked.

SO my question is... Have you studied it? Believe it or not people eat dog food all the time. Take there meds and so on... Sometimes its not an intended use but its still a use.. Not saying take it or not. but with that thinking .. Look at all the fillers put into medications that casue side affects.. but you still take them because the dr said they could fix or help your ailment ..No?

Ivermectin is ivermectin ... SO what do they put into the Horse or cow stuff that humans cant take? Just asking?
You know that they have fish amoxicillin and penicillin also? so what do they put in it that is not for human consumption?
Did anyone read up on it at all? again not saying take it or not just wondering what someone repeats what they hear on tv is all....

So can anyone tell me what is in the Horse and or Cow Ivermectin that is unsafe to humans? besides an overdose?

ASking for a friend.. As he doesnt know and neither do I..

So please someone answer this..and again besides the overdosing part what is not consumable ?

Also to add when i was 18 I went to work for my dad and he had 2 older guys from wyoming or oklahoma or somewhere like that.. They were like brothers... they both missed work and I asked where they had been.. One says oh Bill got sick and I had to get him some medications and give it to him.. Me being the sheltered city kid asked what he meant.. He said I went to the Tack and Feed store and god some Penicillin and gave him a shot.. I asked again.. what do you mean you gave hima shot.. He said I bought the pennicillin that isfor horses and gave him a shot in his butt (or wherever) and he said..It was a big needle but Bill took it well.... That was over 30 years ago and never forgot it.. .. Country people know a lot more on how to take care of some problems.. I thought he was crazy at the time but Here we are...

 

[DaveMatthews]

Cuz people come here for medical advice from unbalanced strangers on the internet...

 

[Handlebars]

You lofty Cali guys, for example, know there are tons of ethnic grocery stores selling medicine over the counter openly.
Take your privilege and go report them. Be proud of your superiority and intention.

 

[Handlebars]

. Me being the sheltered city kid asked what he meant.. He said I went to the Tack and Feed store and god some Penicillin and gave him a shot.. I asked again.. what do you mean you gave hima shot.. He said I bought the pennicillin that isfor horses and gave him a shot in his butt (or wherever) and he said..It was a big needle but Bill took it well.... That was over 30 years ago and never forgot it.. .. Country people know a lot more on how to take care of some problems.. I thought he was crazy at the time but Here we are...

I have witnessed doctors giving shots in the butt into the wrong muscle over and over. My childhood doc did it every time, when I had tonsilitis. It felt like a horse kicked me, the pain went all the way down to my foot. My kids had that happen to them.

In UK they found that nurses and even laypeople could do endoscopy way better than most specialists, after just 2 weeks of proper training on how to reach the target.

This is not to say that one should prefer laypeople to medical doctors for help.

It is to say, "get a grip", Nellies.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Actually because all of the stores hereabouts are sold out on vet-grade Ivermectin I can't exactly go read the ingredients. But my understanding is a that a common additive for medication are compounds that promote the release of the medication in the gut over a period of time. I recall that horse guts are quite different than human guts so likely those compounds would differ. Again I can't know for sure because I have no access to these chemicals but if reports that some people taking veterinary ivermectin are sh**ting themselves to death are true that would surely explain it.

Note that some fillers and buffers may be fine for animals but toxic for humans. Or vice versa. And you won't know until you try it.

It seems to me that the goalposts were just moved in this conversation. The same folks that were saying before, "we never advocated taking veterinary ivermectin" now seem to think I owe it to them to explain why that wouldn't be okay. So again it shows Bad Faith and not really wanting to have a discussion.

 

[Handlebars]

Actually because all of the stores hereabouts are sold out on vet-grade Ivermectin I can't exactly go read the ingredients. But my understanding is a that a common additive for medication are compounds that promote the release of the medication in the gut over a period of time. I recall that horse guts are quite different than human guts so likely those compounds would differ. Again I can't know for sure because I have no access to these chemicals but if reports that some people taking veterinary ivermectin are sh**ting themselves to death are true that would surely explain it.

Note that some fillers and buffers may be fine for animals but toxic for humans. Or vice versa. And you won't know until you try it.

It seems to me that the goalposts were just moved in this conversation. The same folks that were saying before, "we never advocated taking veterinary ivermectin" now seem to think I owe it to them to explain why that wouldn't be okay. So again it shows Bad Faith and not really wanting to have a discussion.

Now there's a bogus claim that one can't read box or insert so can't find out because sold out.

In 2021 that is an absurdity which a child would be able to competently dismiss. I.n.t.e.r.n.e.t. BTW, the box says nothing about fillers or non-medicinal ingredients.

I took it and the only noticeable item for me is that my eyelashes are now straight again, and eyelid edges are smooth. My doctor did NOTHING that helped for that complaint.
One important warning about the veterinary prescribed med is that Collies and some others are really not OK with it or other "mectins". In fact, any time you give it or any mectin to a dog that has never been treated before, you take a chance. Your vet cannot tell if your particular dog will suffer from it, but they know not to give it to certain breeds . There's a chance it could go wrong for any dog.

You guys need to check your privilege.

The same folks that were saying before, "we never advocated taking veterinary ivermectin"

sure.

now seem to think I owe it to them to explain

That would be the silliest thing they did if your tale were true.

 

[Handlebars]

How about that AGW.
Beautiful end of summer type weather right now.
Go for a ride and get the panties to untwist.
For me, it's dog walkies now.
Be good while I'm away.
And thanks for all the laughs!

 

[Oberst]

 

[ActionJackson]

While we’ve been on the topic of medicinal misuse, it seems the Supreme Court has leaned forwards into restrictions on abortion. Maybe that’s another one the veterinarians will have to take up the slack on.

 

[DavidRvR]

Not sure how you claim it’s a change in conversation?
All I hear is it’s a dewormer and so on and it’s bad for humans to take.. I’m asking someone to prove that a human can not take it and why? My stance is .. if you are in a pinch and on the edge of death.. what could go wrong? You die or crap your self?

seems when someone doesn’t want to answer the questions they deflect.. I get a lot of that from my workers.. I don’t put up with it..
pretty direct question. What is in the animal form of ivermectin that is deteamental to a human.. crapping ones self on the toilet happens to be one of the effects of Covid so me thinks you didn’t win or lose anything with that comment..

specifically why can’t you take ivermectin
????

here is one you might get the ingredients
Norbrook 2251053C Ivermectin-Noromectin Injection 1-Percent-500 cc https://www.amazon.com/dp/B078YFPF6...abc_GTM78RP8KQHXHXPD3VX7?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

Can anyone tell me why one couldn’t take this? Besides doses being a problem .. what is in it that is harmful to humans?

btw for all the guys responding about paste? Guess you need to distill this one? Or maybe put flour in it? But it looks like a liquid to me.

 

[Mulezen]

Corb Lund on horse doctoring

 

[tomjasz]

This thread is actually quite pleasant if one used the ignore function. The right wing nuts are best dealt with by just avoiding any conversation. Ignorance is bliss. A little introspection reveals none of the asshats arguing do little or anything to help snd support this great forum. Trolls.

 

[DavidRvR]

This thread is actually quite pleasant if one used the ignore function. The right wing nuts are best dealt with by just avoiding any conversation. Ignorance is bliss. A little introspection reveals none of the asshats arguing do little or anything to help snd support this great forum. Trolls

What makes a right wing troll? or a left wing troll? someone who doesnt share the same views?.. Well..

Actually I try to keep this conversation in the topic of posts... Seems fair I think.. If you dont agree then explain why not.. as I am not closed minded but I do see some ridicule ones views which is fine but at least have a discussion on why a person is wrong besides just saying hes wrong... Like my kids did when they was 3 and 4 years old... Why dad? but why ... But why... I always answered and tried to guid them.. both are great kids now and one has a family going and I am working the other to kick out some kids... Discussions are what makes America Great... and Views are what define us...

I have always been independent but leaned republican... Took the test online and found I am a libertarian more than anything ... My dad fell for the Hope and Change with Obama ... Not sure why as we never really talked about it.. My grandpa was a Democrat through and though. At one time was a member of the KKK... So I have heard it all... Grandpas arguments were so bad that I registered a republican... I vote on Merit and what I feel a person is capable of... Sad I voted for Romney but We had a local Democrat that I met and really liked her and what she stood for.. Voted for her... Couldnt have made those changes without discussion..

Maybe I expected to much Knowledge and critical thinking on this site.. Maybe I missed it. Maybe I should have just followed the foot steps of my Grandpa and never looked back..

 

[BlackHand]

specifically why can’t you take ivermectin
????

If the CDC and FDA statements on the subject (which were partially quoted as well as linked to in one of your links) don't help inform your opinion why would anything some random ebiker posts matter?

Personally, I'm not a Dr., Pharmacist, Veterinarian, apothecary, etc. But I am smart enough to know that even if I were inclined to try it that I'm not qualified to determine the correct dose of a bovine/equine medication for a human.

But hey, maybe you're smarter than me. Maybe

 

[Handlebars]

• For river blindness:
  • Adults and teenagers—Dose is based on body weight and must be determined by your doctor. The usual dose is 150 micrograms (mcg) per kilogram (kg) (68 mcg per pound) of body weight as a single dose. The treatment may be repeated every three to twelve months.
  • Children—Dose is based on body weight and must be determined by your doctor. For children weighing 15 kg (33 pounds) or more, the usual dose is 150 mcg per kg (68 mcg per pound) of body weight as a single dose. If necessary, the treatment may be repeated every three to twelve months. For children weighing less than 15 kg, use and dose must be determined by your doctor.
• For strongyloidiasis:
  • Adults and teenagers—Dose is based on body weight and must be determined by your doctor. The usual dose is 200 micrograms (mcg) per kilogram (kg) (91 mcg per pound) of body weight as a single dose. Additional doses usually are not needed.
  • Children—Dose is based on body weight and must be determined by your doctor. For children weighing 15 kg (33 pounds) or more, the usual dose is 200 mcg per kg (91 mcg per pound) of body weight as a single dose. For children weighing less than 15 kg, use and dose must be determined by your doctor.

As I understand it, in treating river blindness they found that reducing the dose a bit works best, so that the worms in the eye die at a reduced rate. Must be repeated regularly.
Ivermectin has the record of having achieved total clearance in at least one case. Mostly the river blindness disease is held under good control instead of full clearance. Reduced dosage repeated and repeated clears the eye better.
For heartworm in dogs, if the heartworm infestation is severe in the heart, similarly they need to be reduced with caution, compared with normal regular dosing, when they would not be adult and not be in the heart yet or clogging up the the heart. In severe cases with adult worms in the heart, it should be done under vet care if possible in the clinic, because the animal is "on the edge" of death. That kind of vet care would be enormously more expensive.
In my opinion there isn't a good reason not to be regular monthly dosing your dog if your dog is OK with the mectin type of drug.

In dogs under 6 months of age, the veterinary tests cannot detect the immature worms, so they just go ahead and treat. If they want to charge for a test in a younger puppy, they are ripping you off.
The same med works for treating many other worms and pests, so I treat dogs with it. I use Bayer products.

A vet I went to with a young puppy gave a free vet-applied heartworm dosing right away, and a brush and toy package supplied by the drug company. A month later I came back for a regular supply, and they refused without testing. This was on a 5 month old puppy.
I informed them that I knew and insisted, because that they had already treated the pup without testing. They were refusing repeatedly. It turned into a demand that they give me the med. They caved. They were scamming. It didn't look good to the other customers to see the vet clinic owner trying to scam me.
The puppy's mother had been on regular heartworm med dosing too. Scammers. Got the med from them, paid the $110 ( price gouging) for 6 month supply because I wanted the pup protected and never went back.
Veterinary College:

As such, heartworm testing is considered an elective procedure and should only be carried out if there is a high likelihood of infection, e.g. a dog that has been imported into Canada from a high-risk area with an unknown prevention history. For dogs that reside permanently in a low risk area (i.e.almost all of Canada) and have previously received a heartworm preventive with reasonable to good compliance, testing is not required prior to prescribing a heartworm preventive. For Canadian dogs with an unknown heartworm prophylaxis history or a history of poor compliance with the use of heartworm preventives, a test should only be carried out if there are clinical signs consistent with heartworm. For dogs >6 months of age for which a baseline heartworm antigen test has not been obtained, the test should be delayed until COVID-19 testing recommendations no longer apply; until that time, a heartworm preventive should be used that is approved as safe to give to a heartworm-positive dog

 

[st0ut]

Who said that killing the virus is how it is effective against the disease? Chemicals and molecules and compounds can have many effects, not just one effect. To give you an easy understanding of this, have you ever heard of medicines having "side effects"?
Using a medicine for that kind of purpose is called "off-label use".
Aspirin use is against pain, inflammation, and fever. Off-label use can be for preventing heart attacks or strokes.
Covid as a disease has phases where effective medicines or treatments are only effective at a certain phase and could even be harmful at a different phase- for example, treatment to reduce the body's defense response would only be helpful after the virus is not the problem, and when the body's later over-reaction is the problem.

Here's a story in a regular poop-filled science journal. It contains false information ( this is not the first time someone survived without vaccine), but it is illustrative of how treatments may help without directly attacking the virus or bacteria or whatever and without really knowing what works, out of a bunch of possibly good things being done.

Medical Mystery: Only One Person Has Survived Rabies without Vaccine--But How?

ScientificAmerican.com talks with the first known survivor of rabies four years later

www.scientificamerican.com

You are lying there where anti-virals used in this case while she was in an induced coma:
"The doctors used drugs to put Giese into a coma with the aid of ketamine and midazolam. During the following week she was administered phenobarbital (a sedative) and she was given a cocktail of antiviral drugs (ribavirin and amantadine) while waiting for her immune system to produce antibodies to attack the virus. Giese was brought out of the coma after seven days."

And sometimes things work and they don't know why (how, in what manner) they worked until later.
The first widely known case of survival through rabies infection was treated with cold baths and supplementary support more than 50 years ago.

Here is more truthful information:

The “Milwaukee Protocol” for Treatment of Human Rabies Is... : The Pediatric Infectious Disease Journal

An abstract is unavailable.

journals.lww.com

Again
This is NOT an article, nor white paper it is a letter to the editor.

Additionally is also states that the induced coma was the treatment used in this case.

stop spreading misleading information.


Yes i understand what off label use is.which means you have no valid data.