From Class 2 to Class 1. How "hard" is it to switch?

[Gionnirocket]

You know how in a sports car going into a turn you can apply the brake with your left toe, the heal on the clutch while you downshift into second and while slowing give it revs with the right foot and pop the clutch and off the brake while accelerating out of a corner? That is why I do not like cutouts personally.

Since there is no manual clutch... You're reaching.
And I really can't see you riding one of your minimally powered, upright aunt Gertrude machines in that manner.

 

[RunForTheHills]

Since there is no manual clutch... You're reaching.
And I really can't see you riding one of your minimally powered, upright aunt Gertrude machines in that manner.

He doesn't like them because he can't hide the wire inside the handlebars.

 

[stompandgo]

With a mid-drive motor, you never pedal when you engage the brakes, so the motor instantaneously cuts off. (I'm not discussing rare and intentional solutions such as the "motor overrun" found in some advanced e-MTBs).

I may be taking this comment out of context, Stefan, but I do exactly what you say I don't, and I do it all the time. When I'm slowing, I'm downshifting, and to do that, I need to pedal. I'm not on the brakes much, or hard while downshifting, and it's definitely not under load.

There were attempts to apply the switches to cut the mid-drive motor off for shifting but I think it is not being done anymore as the rider would ease on or stop pedalling during the shifting. (Shifting while pedalling is not critically bad. The new SRAM Transmission -- or Type T -- drivetrain even encourages riders to shift under the load).

Di2 can also be shifted under full load.

 

[stompandgo]

He doesn't like them because he can't hide the wire inside the handlebars.

What's wrong with wires and hoses inside the handlebars?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I may be taking this comment out of context, Stefan, but I do exactly what you say I don't, and I do it all the time. When I'm slowing, I'm downshifting, and to do that, I need to pedal. I'm not on the brakes much, or hard while downshifting, and it's definitely not under load.

Stomp, if you pedal full power on a mechanical drivetrain and shift, it ends up with a loud CLUNK, doesn't it. Easing up on the pedalling makes the shift quiet. If you stop pedalling for a short while, shift and pedal again, the process is totally smooth. Perhaps not the thing to be done on the race but do the racers pay for their bikes anyway?

Di2 can also be shifted under full load.

No doubt.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Bosch Performance Line CX from the 2022 model year on a Bianchi step-thru city bike.

If that motor has no "overrun" then there is something wrong about that e-bike. Is the assistance constant (ECO, TOUR,...) or Dynamic (+ modes) there?

Except e-MTB where several special techniques are allowed (e.g., Zero Cadence, Overrun...), any other type of a good mid-drive motor e-bike will not allow the surge when you start pedalling.

 

[stompandgo]

Stomp, if you pedal full power on a mechanical drivetrain and shift, it ends up with a loud CLUNK, doesn't it. Easing up on the pedalling makes the shift quiet. If you stop pedalling for a short while, shift and pedal again, the process is totally smooth. Perhaps not the thing to be done on the race but do the racers pay for their bikes anyway?

We were talking about brake cutout switches and decelerating on an e-bike with and without them. I need to pedal to downshift. Some bikes don't. E-bike hardwired Di2 can be configured to downshift by itself. IGH hubs like the Alfine can as well.

 

[PedalUma]

I am working on a Specialized Crosstrail with an overhaul today. It is a butch bike. I converted it about six-years-ago. Funny about Gertrude. I have not thought of that name for years until earlier today. That was the name of the girl in ET. You never hear it. Yes, there is a demand for lithe bikes for older women and I can do that too.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

We were talking about brake cutout switches and decelerating on an e-bike with and without them. I need to pedal to downshift. Some bikes don't. E-bike hardwired Di2 can be configured to downshift by itself. IGH hubs like the Alfine can as well.

Yes, you need to pedal to downshift. You can do it post pushing the shifter lever as well -- not necessarily while shifting. (I think it is just a little misunderstanding here). Now, Nate described a suggestion of Bosch and Shimano that their motors could actually cut the motor off for the shifting process, Rohloff, etc. I do not exclude such a possibility as I could read is somewhere, too.

 

[PedalUma]

Since there is no manual clutch... You're reaching.
And I really can't see you riding one of your minimally powered, upright aunt Gertrude machines in that manner.

Is this the type of Bafang HD you like? It is trying way too hard to be Butch as compensation for what does not measure up. Yes, I converted it too. It is what the customer wanted and yes, the wires are hidden.

 

[PCeBiker]

,.. their motors could actually cut the motor off for the shifting process, Rohloff, etc.

My mid-drive motor has a shift sensor input that uses a hal sensor on the shifter cable to shut down the motor during shifting.

I'm not going to use it, and just use my brake switches like a clutch to disengage the motor instead, or just back off the throttle while shifting.

My e-bike is like a motorcycle. I even put the front brake on the right.

Is this the type of Bafang HD you like?

I like my Bafang.
It's got two Bafang motors and four brake switches now,..

I'm with @Gionnirocket.
The only thing I like about a Gertrude bike is it's "slacker" geometry.

 

[Gionnirocket]

So back to the OP...
We've learned that a class 2 is the most practical/safe way to avoid pedal strikes while climbing rough terrain at a reasonable fun pace
Short throttle bursts rule

 

[speedub.nate]

If that motor has no "overrun" then there is something wrong about that e-bike. Is the assistance constant (ECO, TOUR,...) or Dynamic (+ modes) there?

Except e-MTB where several special techniques are allowed (e.g., Zero Cadence, Overrun...), any other type of a good mid-drive motor e-bike will not allow the surge when you start pedalling.

I'm not familiar with Dynamic so I assume the former, and almost for sure she's in Eco for what that's worth.

Neither of us can replicate this, but the best guess we've come up with is she's in a higher gear because it's at the bottom of a descent, she is just about stopped and probably preparing to set her left foot on the pavement, and she must be mashing the right pedal down quickly enough that the motor says "GO!" but right at the worst time because, like I wrote, she's practically stopped.

One thing I'm wondering as I'm typing this is because this is a step through frame (new to her), has she already learned she doesn't need to lean the bike over to put a foot down, and instead is popping off the saddle too early and into the 'V' but with her foot on the high pedal?

I don't want to make it sound like this is happening all the time, but I think we're at 4 occurrences now, and they're spread out, not all when the bike was new to her.

 

[speedub.nate]

I even put the front brake on the right.

Isn't that where everyone puts theirs?!?

Ok, ok, another topic for that other thread!

 

[PCeBiker]

,.. the motor says "GO!" but right at the worst time because, like I way, she's practically stopped.

As far as I'm concerned, if your wife had her hand on either brake lever at the time, then that Simply Shouldn't happen.
It's not smart and its not safe.

I can easily install a shift sensor for my mid-drive and not bother installing the second set of brake switches to my brake levers, but I "use" my brake switches All the time, and I Really Like knowing that my motor shuts off whenever I grab the brake lever.

Isn't that where everyone puts theirs?!?

On every real motorcycle, yes.

I have an electric motorcycle that only goes 20 mph.

The pedals do actually work quite effectively, but I choose to not use them. Cuz I don't wanna.

 

[PCeBiker]

@speedub.nate
I don't know about your ebike, but my ebike allows me to adjust the amount of crank rotation necessary for the motor to start.

If your wife is actually pedaling forward enough to "start up" the motor, you may be able to make it one full rotation or something?

 

[speedub.nate]

you may be able to make it one full rotation or something?

I'm relatively new to Bosch so have to see what all I have access to via the app. But it's hilly enough in our area that her having the motor start up more-or-less instantly on crank rotation (whatever the default is) is probably more helpful, especially because this bike is an upright-seated boat anchor. I hear you though -- I don't want my sweetie cracking her coccyx crossing Broadway! Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[Gionnirocket]

On that subject I have my start rotation set at 1/4 crank. This gives me the option of starting with the pedal at 3- 5 o'clock and not getting assistance but just get rolling or starting at 1 - 3 o'clock and getting assistance on the initial push without having to adjust PAS.
The delay is negligible especially if you follow through with continuous pedaling.

 

[PCeBiker]

and she must be mashing the right pedal down quickly enough that the motor says "GO!"

I think that's it?
If you've got a Torque Sensor, then it's probably sensing the pedal pressure necessary to get your chain into low gear at slow speed.

, but I think we're at 4 occurrences now, and they're spread out, not all when the bike was new to her.

I think you should definitely try to get it to happen again to find out what's going on.
Maybe try riding the brakes a bit to increase your pedal pressure to see if the motor starts?

So is this safety switch connected to a brake lever also found on mid-drive bikes that are equipped with throttles?

My brother-in-law has the mid-drive version of my e-bike, and it has both torque and cadence sensing and a throttle, but it doesn't have brake switches.

I like having a kill switch on both brake levers.
s*it always happens, and it's happened to me half a dozen times.

If I ever wanna do wheelies or burnouts, I can just unplug the switches.

 

[stompandgo]

I'm relatively new to Bosch so have to see what all I have access to via the app. But it's hilly enough in our area that her having the motor start up more-or-less instantly on crank rotation (whatever the default is) is probably more helpful, especially because this bike is an upright-seated boat anchor. I hear you though -- I don't want my sweetie cracking her coccyx crossing Broadway! Thanks for the suggestion.

You can't look at a Bosch motor like you can a Bafang. The Bafang is open, and it's compatibility is wide. OEM's that use Bafang configure them the way they like, but shops and end users have a myriad of adjustments available for customization. Bosch is not that way. They supply motors with adjustability, and they are configured by the manufacturer, but the manufacturer controls how much adjustability is available after it leaves the factory. You can have the exact same drive unit in two different bikes, and have two different sets of parameters available depending on what each manufacturer wants. Some things can be overridden, if the manufacturer asks Bosch to do it.