Frey's new 2021 model

[MartsEbike]

When Tom gives his opinion of the Stock Controller I think of this

 

[TomD]

Ha, well I just try to keep it real. I may sound like a fanboy when it comes to innotrace / x1 controller but I really do think it's a must have if you can afford it. If it wasn't worth the price of admission I'd have no problems saying so.

 

[Ebiker33]

At some point the battery to weight ratio crosses the line of being just too heavy, and the voltage gets into what some people in the industry have said crosses a safety issue line as well.
From my research that line is 52V 21Ah 21700 cell, paired with an ultra with an WW X1, you should be able to ride all day.
Frey went a bridge too far on this one, just to be bigger and bader, is there any locality where this would be street legal ?

 

[FlyingFinn]

At some point the battery to weight ratio crosses the line of being just too heavy, and the voltage gets into what some people in the industry have said crosses a safety issue line as well.
From my research that line is 52V 21Ah 21700 cell, paired with an ultra with an WW X1, you should be able to ride all day.
Frey went a bridge too far on this one, just to be bigger and bader, is there any locality where this would be street legal ?

Not even the authorities care about street-legality here. In regions that have low population density nobody really cares.

 

[reed scott]

Ha, well I just try to keep it real. I may sound like a fanboy when it comes to innotrace / x1 controller but I really do think it's a must have if you can afford it. If it wasn't worth the price of admission I'd have no problems saying so.

I'm an unabashed fanboi for just about everything Wattwagons and I admit it. I have no shame.

 

[reed scott]

Hi guys. I am still here and active but no longer selling the Frey eBikes unfortunately. I didn’t fall foul of any laws as someone had intimated. I sold many bikes in the UK through 2019 and 2020 at very fair prices and provided warranty support, full back up and assistance to all my customers. I was originally meant to be the official Frey distributor but I never had any proper support from the mother company in China. Then with BREXIT issues and increasing taxes and import charges and also all the shenanigans I faced with shipping logistics (one minute overland deliveries was ok, then it wasn’t, then air freight, then it wasn’t , extra charges, huge delays, changes to specs). It wasn’t workable. For reference I was last selling the EX Pro models in the UK, delivered all fully inclusive for £3,899 but resellers are now charging £5,395. My ethos was to have the end customer in mind every step of the way but it seems everyone else just wants to cash in such is the demand on eBikes and bikes in general dice COVID. I had some family illness to content with as well which took my time away from the bikes. Now I just ride for fun. I do a lot of non-eBike fitness training and use my EX Pro for a laugh. Yes, I upgraded mine as a 79er also now as a mullet asymmetric wheel set up bike based on the successes of the downhill racers once the UCI rules were changed two years ago allowing different sized wheels. Frey have latched on to that idea with their new Beast model now. It was my idea for the EX Pro external battery cover as well. I’ve recently upgraded the motor in my bike with the INNOTRACE X1 controller. I worked closely with Rico at INNOTRACE and I also made wiring changes to my EX Pro to remove the diodes to improve performance. Finally I’ve been exhaustively testing the INNOTRACE controller on my EX Pro with great success. I have the programming toolkit and have my own map finalised for it now. Now running 3,500 watts but very conservatively. Extremely smooth running and much improved range on the bike now. All the best folks and shoot any questions and I will try to answer. I really-enabled all my videos on YouTube again. I simply took them down as I was inundated with enquiries but just couldn’t get the bikes from Frey. I also even tried to arrange a group buy for UK end customers with no mark ups involved - just with me acting as logistics liaison but they didn’t want to do that. Sorry guys. Cheers, Simon.

Great to hear from you again. Glad you dint get in any trouble selling these great bikes in your land. I am one that feared you had. Too too bad things didn't work out. Perhaps in future things will be better. I now have a rebadged Frey AM 1000 from Bolton Ebikes in California and you are a main reason I made that decision. Extremely happy with it. I wish there were more people building very good bikes like Frey and getting them into the hands of people at decent prices.

PS: I too have put an Archon X1 ( Wattwagons ) in my bike.

 

[Taylor57]

Hi guys. I am still here (Simon of Adrenaline eBikes, this side of the pond ) and active but no longer selling the Frey eBikes unfortunately. I didn’t fall foul of any laws as someone had intimated. I sold many bikes in the UK through 2019 and 2020 at very fair prices and provided warranty support, full back up and assistance to all my customers. I was originally meant to be the official Frey distributor but I never had any proper support from the mother company in China. Then with BREXIT issues and increasing taxes and import charges and also all the shenanigans I faced with shipping logistics (one minute overland deliveries was ok, then it wasn’t, then air freight, then it wasn’t , extra charges, huge delays, changes to specs). It wasn’t workable. For reference I was last selling the EX Pro models in the UK, delivered all fully inclusive for £3,899 but resellers are now charging £5,395. My ethos was to have the end customer in mind every step of the way but it seems everyone else just wants to cash in such is the demand on eBikes and bikes in general since COVID. I had some family illness to contend with as well which took my time away from the bikes. Now I just ride for fun. I do a lot of non-eBike fitness training and use my EX Pro for a laugh. Yes, I upgraded mine as a 79er also known as a mullet asymmetric wheel set up bike based on the successes of the downhill racers once the UCI rules were changed two years ago allowing different sized wheels. Frey have latched on to that idea with their new Beast model now. It was my idea for the EX Pro external battery cover as well. I’ve recently upgraded the motor in my bike with the INNOTRACE X1 controller. I worked closely with Rico at INNOTRACE and I also made wiring changes to my EX Pro to remove the diodes to improve performance. Finally I’ve been exhaustively testing the INNOTRACE controller on my EX Pro with great success. I have the programming toolkit and have my own map finalised for it now. Now running 3,500 watts but very conservatively. Extremely smooth running and much improved range on the bike now. All the best folks and shoot any questions and I will try to answer. I re-enabled all my videos on YouTube again. I simply took them down as I was inundated with enquiries but just couldn’t get the bikes from Frey. I also even tried to arrange a group buy for UK customers with no mark ups involved - just with me acting as logistics liaison but they didn’t want to do that. Sorry guys. Cheers, Simon.

I enjoyed your unboxing vid of the cream colored CC so much I ordered one a couple of months back. Hopefully it shows up before I die!

 

[Trob777]

Hi guys. I am still here (Simon of Adrenaline eBikes, this side of the pond ) and active but no longer selling the Frey eBikes unfortunately. I didn’t fall foul of any laws as someone had intimated. I sold many bikes in the UK through 2019 and 2020 at very fair prices and provided warranty support, full back up and assistance to all my customers. I was originally meant to be the official Frey distributor but I never had any proper support from the mother company in China. Then with BREXIT issues and increasing taxes and import charges and also all the shenanigans I faced with shipping logistics (one minute overland deliveries was ok, then it wasn’t, then air freight, then it wasn’t , extra charges, huge delays, changes to specs). It wasn’t workable. For reference I was last selling the EX Pro models in the UK, delivered all fully inclusive for £3,899 but resellers are now charging £5,395. My ethos was to have the end customer in mind every step of the way but it seems everyone else just wants to cash in such is the demand on eBikes and bikes in general since COVID. I had some family illness to contend with as well which took my time away from the bikes. Now I just ride for fun. I do a lot of non-eBike fitness training and use my EX Pro for a laugh. Yes, I upgraded mine as a 79er also known as a mullet asymmetric wheel set up bike based on the successes of the downhill racers once the UCI rules were changed two years ago allowing different sized wheels. Frey have latched on to that idea with their new Beast model now. It was my idea for the EX Pro external battery cover as well. I’ve recently upgraded the motor in my bike with the INNOTRACE X1 controller. I worked closely with Rico at INNOTRACE and I also made wiring changes to my EX Pro to remove the diodes to improve performance. Finally I’ve been exhaustively testing the INNOTRACE controller on my EX Pro with great success. I have the programming toolkit and have my own map finalised for it now. Now running 3,500 watts but very conservatively. Extremely smooth running and much improved range on the bike now. All the best folks and shoot any questions and I will try to answer. I re-enabled all my videos on YouTube again. I simply took them down as I was inundated with enquiries but just couldn’t get the bikes from Frey. I also even tried to arrange a group buy for UK customers with no mark ups involved - just with me acting as logistics liaison but they didn’t want to do that. Sorry guys. Cheers, Simon.

Glad to see you on here, your videos inspired me to trust FREY BIKE,
Seeing how the UK now has two Frey distributors I thought maybe you had been shafted somehow.
Hope you are Happy Safe and Well,
Take care.
Thanks for opening up your videos again...

 

[walkingman57]

This is my current INNOTRACE map although there’s a few more changes I’m about to make based on riding over the last weekend. I only got the upgrades done and the bike rebuilt last week.

That's an awesome looking bike Simon!

 

[ProphetZarquon]

Well, for me it was like the difference between being in a relationship that isn't that bad and falling in love. On my CC I had significant range anxiety and regretted not getting a spare until I upgraded the controller. Innotrace actually claims 35% which is closer to what I've seen. Watt Wagons sandbags by only claiming 15%, but really just because they didnt want to over promise and under deliver.

How much effort did you put into tuning the settings on the OEM Bafang controller? I've read over & over that the default settings are essentially a one-size-fits-most config and... less than ideal. Plus each bike+rider layout is going to demand different torque response anyway...

From what I've seen, most people proposing alternative settings, have not often delved deep into fine-tuning the Delta Voltage or keepCurrent & decay settings. These seem essential for turning a decent motor into a great one!?

I'm a bit amazed how many people seem willing to spend hours & hundreds (or thousands) of dollars on swapped controllers, without really putting a similar effort toward getting the most out of what they already have. People who swap their controller claim the difference is incomparable; but people who put a lot of effort into tuning, claim much the same!

I've yet to see anyone post side-by-side comparisons of different tunings versus different controllers; seems like everyone goes one route or the other, & no one who's put significant effort into both, has shared their results yet???

Really curious to know what setting configs you may have tried?

 

[ProphetZarquon]

Incidentally, I got an email this week that the Frey AM1000 we ordered has been assembled, tested, & sent to packing! I had never placed an order via Alibaba before, so Ivy & Cecilia's patience & help in getting this far, has been very much appreciated!

Frankly I can't wait to lay hands on this ebike & see which of our use cases it will cover best! (I suspect I won't need to do much to it, if at all, for the majority of our riding! A dropper seatpost sure seems like something I'll want!)

 

[reed scott]

That's an awesome looking bike Simon!

Talked to Simon this week on you tube. He has completely bailed out of ebikes. Does not even own one now.

 

[TomD]

How much effort did you put into tuning the settings on the OEM Bafang controller? I've read over & over that the default settings are essentially a one-size-fits-most config and... less than ideal. Plus each bike+rider layout is going to demand different torque response anyway...

From what I've seen, most people proposing alternative settings, have not often delved deep into fine-tuning the Delta Voltage or keepCurrent & decay settings. These seem essential for turning a decent motor into a great one!?

I'm a bit amazed how many people seem willing to spend hours & hundreds (or thousands) of dollars on swapped controllers, without really putting a similar effort toward getting the most out of what they already have. People who swap their controller claim the difference is incomparable; but people who put a lot of effort into tuning, claim much the same!

I've yet to see anyone post side-by-side comparisons of different tunings versus different controllers; seems like everyone goes one route or the other, & no one who's put significant effort into both, has shared their results yet???

Really curious to know what setting configs you may have tried?

Zero. I did not waste my time due to the low sampling frequency of the stock controller. No matter how smooth you can tune it you can't get around that. I didn't spend 4K on an eBike to cheap out when I could make it world class.